Avatar of Innue
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  • Old Guild Username: Innue
  • Joined: 11 yrs ago
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    1. Innue 11 yrs ago
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6 yrs ago
Current Re-released our creature capture thread: roleplayerguild.com/topics/…
8 yrs ago
Mostly Janna is best summoner name. Sadly, Project, that is mine.
8 yrs ago
FF12 Zodiac Age players - if you want to have the optimal party, PM me. Working on a spreadsheet to determine best party makeups and I will share it once done.
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8 yrs ago
Too many things I want to write right now, which is resulting in 0 writing getting done. Yaaaaaay.
8 yrs ago
Pondering re-releasing my western fantasy thread. >.>
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Mythbusters did a similar test. At 500 feet, you would need to be able to react twice as fast as the record holder fastest human. Usain Bolt. At 100 feet, you would only need to be 10x as fast as the world record holder. Which is, guess what. Only about as fast as a sports car.

Not 2800x the speed of a sports car.

Because a human can accelerate their body almost instantly, where as a car can't.


I did my calculations on the 10 feet number which I indicated.

There is still acceleration speed to the human body - it is not instant (9.8 m/s is what I found for a high acceleration). I only used the car for a note because you brought up their speed. It may not be the most equatable in terms of acceleration - I'd have to examine it further.

So you need 500 feet to dodge a bullet. Not many battles at low tier take place at that distance. Add in approaching speed and you make it even harder. You still have not demonstrated that this is reasonable at a low tier.
Negligible as in, it only doubles the time taken. It still only increases the amount by about 2 maybe 2.3x. This is still an impossibly short period of time. Human reaction speed is only so much.

And yeah, policing human error isn't easy. However, there's really no perfect way to establish balance in a written competitive environment.

If you totally balance it, it restricts the writing.
If you try to balance it, it restricts the characters.
If you let it go free, it restricts competition.

Edit: Guns are fine at low tier too! They're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon that only has a linear aim and narrow strike zone is limited, they're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon used by a normal person or even a superhuman is limited only to the abilities of the user.


I've been incredibly successful at balancing the mechanics of items in many instances without restricting the writing at all or restricting characters.

Linear and narrow strike zone are not limiting factors at low tier when a singular, well placed shot can be lethal and can be actively pursued. This can be done in a singular post on any Arena that isn't specifically designed with countermeasures at appropriate distances to deal with such a character.

I do not establish balances based on the differences between writers. Assuming relatively equal skill, a particular weapon can be imbalanced in comparison to another.

So what we've established with me so far is that guns are fine assuming:
- The non gun wielding character has over 120 times the reaction speed of a normal human (I was being generous with the reaction times in favor of the non gun wielder in terms of requirement based on the complexity and required no actual stimulus).
- Is capable of accelerating over 2800 times faster than a sportscar (this was just to 60 mph which isn't fast enough to avoid the bullet from the calc I did)
- Is capable of moving at approximately 90 mph in order to dodge the bullet at a range of 10 feet with only a 2 inch required adjustment to avoid on a singular kill shot. I also did this calculation in favor of the powered melee/caster by doing the calculation on a dodge to the side. Any approaching momentum would reduce the time they had to deal with it an up the requirements.

You can get a touch more time by reacting to motions, but this also assumes the gun wielder has not augmentations of their own. However, the above would not be found on a low tier character AND the existence of a such a weapon actively restricts not only the viable combat options of others, but the places they much take place.

I understand no one has to fight a gun user, but please do not tell me that they are appropriate in lower tiers of combat. They are fine at higher tiers of power when there would be a wider range of acceptable powers that would not overwhelm others' powers capable of dealing with them. Otherwise they are overbearing and restricting to others.

Acceleration time is not negligible, ever. Every action has a time cost associated with it. Do not ever take that time for granted.

You cannot police human error in text combat without, as Melon said, using some kind of randomized system. Which then makes it come down to 'who gets the lucky roll'. Again, not a good way to establish balance for something such as this which is seeking to be competitive.

This also assumes the gun wielder has absolutely no enhancements either, which they often do 'in order to compete'. If they, as well, have increased reaction times, then that makes it even harder.

Guns are fine at a higher tier. They are not fine at the tier people often use them at. That is, and will remain, my position until someone can demonstrate some math I have overlooked or calculation I've done wrong.
The answer to your question is math of my own.

A normal human being with a BELOW average running speed of 10 mph. Can cross 10 feet in less than 1 second. As 10mph translates into 14 fps.

The person being rushed has less than 1 second to react. While that's not unreasonable, people can fire guns that quickly, we're talking about a superhuman and a normal human.

Let's amp the math up. 10 mph can cross 100 feet in about 7 seconds.

Let's amp the speed up. To Olympian levels.

20 mph.

100 feet in 3.5 seconds.

Record breaking speeds.

30 mph.

100 feet in 1.75 seconds.

Superhuman speeds.

50 mph.

100 feet in 1.3.

Let's put this onto Godfrey's flight speed.

60 mph.

1.13 seconds.

These would all still be under the LOW tier speeds listed in the Nexus of Worlds Multiverse hosted by Skallagrim a while back. These aren't even the peak of that Tier.

Your average sports car can move at 200 to 220 mph. So let's do the math at that.

.03 seconds to cross 100 feet.

I restate my point from before.

Guns don't kill people in the Arena.
People kill people in the Arena.


You didn't take into account acceleration time - which is important for any of these calculations.
At 100 feet distance?
Handgun? You're going to get hit.
Semi-Automatic? You're going to be riddled with bullets.
Fully-Automatic? You're going to die.

At 50 feet distance?
Handgun? Easy enough. Might get clipped.
Semi-Automatic? You're going to get hit, but they're not going to chew through you before you reach them.
Fully-Automatic? You're going to be riddled with bullets, whether or not that kills you depends on what you are. As well, it depends on how well they can deal with the recoil of a fully automatic weapon, because that exists for normal humans.

At 10 feet distance?
Handgun? You won't even get shot.
Semi-Automatic? Might get clipped.
Fully-Automatic? You're going to get hit, but they're not going to chew through you before you reach them.


As I asked before, do you want me to preform the math?
Leeroy, i dare you to say any of the tournament's participants can go up against a normal human with a machinegun and close the gap quick enough. Using cover? Sure, but not by outdoing them with sheer speed or durability, even if they are superhuman.


Even using cover would be difficult in terms of text roleplay.
I strongly stand my ground on that point, mainly due to the writing styles that I've witnessed on this site and others. Anyone with abilities past those of human, can close the gap between them and a marksman quick enough that the usefulness of marksmen comes into question immediately.

As well, unless they're getting shot in the head on the very first turn of the fight. Which would be a low down, scumbag thing to do. No Supherhuman melee fighter is going to instantly die from a bullet wound either. Hindered, maybe, but die? Hell to the no.

Hell, a human can take more than one bullet and keep kicking. Bullets aren't a guaranteed instant kill even in real life. Guns aren't these all powerful sticks of death that everyone makes them out to be.


As stated, I don't agree with that being a balancing mechanism (the players) for weapons. The other issues still persist.

And no, you need to be significantly past human (by a lot) to dodge bullets at 50 feet. As I said before, you would be in a significantly higher tier with those kinds of abilities. Just because people haven't had others adhere to these things in the past doesn't mean it is balanced. I can do the math on the speed you would need to actually dodge them effectively at that range if you so wish me to.
This applies to anyone above human levels, period.


All I can legitimately say to this is no. Melon has done a fantastic job explaining it as well. I'd suggest you read through his comments on it if you haven't already done so.
Most characters in the Arena are basically immune to bullets.

Be it by movement speed, durability, precognitive movement, so on and so forth.

Basically, guns are worthless, and the argument that they need to be regulated is totally moot.

Considering that guns are very limited in what they can do.

Even if they have a bottomless clip, they can only fire at a certain speed. They can only travel in a straight line with a slight decay. They can only hit with so much force.

Guns don't kill people in the Arena.

People kill people in the Arena.


This ONLY applies at significantly higher tiers of power unless the gun user is incredible incompetent.
Innue that's fine the argument is going no where. You don't like guns fine. I do. It's all good.


<--- Has a thread specifically about guns.

I just like them well moderated.
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