Nytem4re

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Nytem4re>

Can we stop equating DELIBERATELY DESTRUCTIVE ideologies with just a simple "you don't like it"

also,

once?

@Ace of Hearts

Could you actually attack the argument other than my word choice, for once maybe?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Ace of Hearts

Yeah, and so are the far-left, but I only see you trashing the far-right. There are plenty of people who have shitty ideologies, (namely the far left on the other side of the spectrum who believe they need to kill off everyone who don't agree with them)

I mean, let's pretend you somehow did allow nazis to be arrested on the basis that "they're gonna do bad"

Okay sure. So are you going to recruit facebook to spy on each and every one of their users? Are you going to force google to single out users who search keywords like fascism and nazis? I mean, it's possible, the NSA did it, but we all saw how much of a shitstorm that was.

Are we going to go after every single ideology we don't like?

I mean, not to mention scouring the internet is a very tedious job and you're only really going to catch the very outspoken ones and then drive the rest underground, to which the ideology will still exist.

Also, the american government once discriminated against basically every non-white, but I don't see you calling for all of their heads.

@Keyguyperson

Moral Relativism is a very flawed theory.

It implies that you cannot judge others, and using that point, one could argue you can't be mad at the nazis for growing up in a country that hated the jews, blacks, slavs, and so many others?

Just... no. It's just a cop out.

You can make judgements and compare moralities.

Cultures have shared values as well, so relativism only works up to a point.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Nytem4re>

I'll take "being an enabler" for 600, Alex.

also, allowing people to spread ignorance is pretty bad; global warming deniers do exactly that.

@Ace of Hearts

I mean, it wasn't too long ago that supporting gay rights and non-white rights were seen as ignorance. There was a time where African Americans were actively being denied their rights to free speech by those who assumed they were just trash.

The entire point of the 1st amendment is to try and prevent things like this from happening (it still happens regardless, showing that it only really matters when people enforce the constitution) because people are not objective.

I'd argue you'd be enabling more civil rights to be taken away, out of a misguided belief that you could actually destroy an ideology by preventing people legally from talking about it.

It's not like people don't follow the law, the war on drugs went well, why not the war on the 1st amendment?

I'd also argue that more comprehensive education would lessen the number of nazis rather than outright pretending free speech doesn't exist.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

No, people are supporting others to have the right to believe in Nazi ideology without consequence from the government or the people.

that's what sympathizers and collaborators do.

also, haha, fighting nazis makes you the nazi?

but I can't call people names because that's mean and hurts Frokanes little feewings.

@Ace of Hearts

Supporting free speech=nazis?

I suppose we should crack down on the communists then, or else we're all totalitarian socialist scum.

I let global warming deniers say as they please, doesn't mean I believe them or collaborate with them.

Allowing people to say as they please doesn't mean I support their views at all. That's a broken premise. Do I support your views of denying nazis/far-right people the right to speak? No, but I'm not trying to actively block your free speech. Does that make me your supporter then? A collaborator?

And it would be pretty ironic if I was a nazi, since I'm viet and the nazis helped the Japanese, who utterly destroyed my country during WW2 and basically starved us to death.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

How would one even prevent someone from being a nazi? You'd have to breach every several individual rights in the constitution and do something akin to the internment camps of the 40s.

The entire point is- No, most people don't think it's okay to be a nazi. But the point of rights are to protect everyone, not just those you deem "worthy" of having rights. At that point it becomes a privilege and not a right at all.

I mean, it was only a few decades ago that advocating for gay marriage was seen as "evil" and "sinful". If we banned nazi speech/thought it would have obviously extended to LGBT activists and civil rights activists. Because what's "right" at the time might be subjective.

Anyways, it just opens up a lot of chances for abuse if we did attempt to force people not to be nazis. Who's rights are safe then? For all we know the government could just shut the lid on anyone criticizing them, claiming that they were shitty people who can't see the benefit of the government being all powerful.

It also brings up the other question on who even decides how much far-right philosophy/thought gets you in trouble. Are we banning just blantant nazis, or any far-right leaning person who may have facist ideals?

And I mean, if you didn't want to debate this why even post an obvious flame bait reaction like "how fucking stupid are you"

Discord and The Guild/RPing

@Nytem4re My post was about chats in general, not just discord. As far as it not happening on Discord - just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

@Lady Amalthea

True, but I was in the unofficial and official guild chats for a while and there wasn't really any problem with smutting, not to mention I modded the latter for a while.

If it was happening, it was most likely between PMs.

That's not to say discord didn't bring other issues though.

Discord and The Guild/RPing

Okay, going to throw in my two copper pieces as it were.

The chat is both good and bad for the forum. It just depends on how you use it.

Good:

• Allows you rapid communication when others are online
• Let's you get to know your fellow Rpers on a more personal level
• You can meet people you normally wouldn't outside of your main Rp group
• Hearing about Rps you might have missed interest checks for
• Finding out an Rp you thought was interesting is now open again for new people quickly
• General talk in chat can cut down in OOC spam

Bad:

• People can tend to spend too much time in chat and get distracted from posting
• If not moderated constantly can turn into Smut central
• People tend to type before they speak and it can lead to trolling beyond the norm or emotional outbrusts
• If not careful, it can still an OOC and cause an RP to go stagnate
• Can be a bit intimidating to join if you are an introvert
• With the amount of people under the age of 16 on the forum, really needs to have a heavier set of rules for youth protection against bullying and other things.

Now, with both the pros and cons - you can easily argue against either. And of course there are more good and bad points than I have listed. Good points can be shot down under the right circumstances. Draw backs can be dealt with using the right tactics.

So overall - A chat, like discord, is not a bad thing. It is how you use it. I personally use a private chat for all members of Rp's I GM - main reason is to cut down on spam in OOC and so people can get to know each other. It helps keep us tightly knit and I have found over the long term the pros out weigh the cons. (The length of running for my rp's and the Rpers in them sticking it out can attest to that.)

This is one of those situations that it boils down to this - To each their own. As long as it works for you, have fun. If it doesn't, just don't be a member of it. If you are a Gm and are having issues in your Rp you feel are because of the chat, simply address your Rpers and work it out - it isn't up the community at large to drop something a large amount enjoy just because you are having a problem. As a Gm your Rp is your responsibility, no one elses.

Again, just my two copper pieces.
~Lady A

@Lady Amalthea

Just going to say that smut doesn't really happen on discord. I've never seen smutting at least on any of the rpg affiliated discords. It's not really an issue, but moderation still is an issue, I can agree with you on that.

Discord and The Guild/RPing

Probably because there is not a debate, which is why people think this notion that discord is unproductive for the site at large (I guess the mIRC and other chat features the site has had were unproductive too?) is ridiculous. It's just a subjective dialogue that is as irrelevant as it is inane.

@Inkarnate

Most of the interactions have been mostly on status updates, so yeah, there hasn't actually been an actual debate.

The point of this topic was to actually engage those who disliked discord, because they might have had something that might give me a new perspective on their viewpoints.

Of course, I also don't have the luxury of arrogance and self-righteousness, as I actually wanted to better understand where an anti-discord crowd might be coming from.

Discord and The Guild/RPing

Oh so this is a personal strike and not a debate; No Thank You

@RumikoOhara

Alright since you seem have been "triggered" by what I assume is the use of word angry, I'll give you a completely different and detailed interpretation.

At the very least, you seem disappointed by the fact that your rp group could not start right away with the tabletop, or that it's hard to stop them from talking about rl stuff.

This statement is pointless because it's only one personal story. Mileage varies as I have never had that problem with my tabletop group.

Secondly, you bring up the point that there are 140 users online on discord and 200 on rpg. Again, both user counts do not account for someone going afk, as discord simply keeps you logged in on mobile, deceptively inflating the number of users actually "active".

Lastly, you claim to have evidence that discord use correlates with lower post counts in rp threads. Now I asked for the evidence because I highly doubt you looked at when the discord was made, gathered several rps to research, found the avg number of posts before and after discord and compared them, and also accounted for outside variables such as when school is out or in session, and people getting jobs or more hours at work.

There you go. You can go say I'm making it personal, but after this post it ain't true at all.

Discord and The Guild/RPing

How interesting, I was using the Discord option and noticed that it got like the table babble of a Table Top RP

I run a LUG Star Trek game every other weekend and my biggest problem is keeping people focused on the game instead of talking about what happened at work or school, who they were dating now and so forth.

It's a natural thing for people to chat on what's going on in their lives among their friends and Gaming groups are friends of shared interest but that was mostly what I saw on Discord so I ceased using it

Presently there are a little over 200 members active at this moment and 140 of those are tagged into Discord

Sure not all of those listed are actively posting on discord and have signed in to see if anyone in the group is in the chat.

Then there is the evidence of the slow moving threads in the forums that seemed to lose posting frequency after Discord became the chat

@RumikoOhara

So you're mad people want to talk about things other than rping? Ummm... people are going to do that regardless of discord.

And where is this evidence? This is the first I've heard of the so called evidence.