scribz

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

The Nexerus said
Hypothetically, Scots would still be able to use the pounds in their wallets to go the store and buy groceries, but the Bank of England absolutely can and absolutely will disavow an independent Scotland from using the pound sterling without an adequate negotiation process. If you want Scotland to be like Zimbabwe and have no currency on a government level and use a foreign currency on the level of actual citizens, that's fine, but if not, Scotland needs to negotiate the terms of a currency union with the Bank of England, and accept that they're negotiating because it is the Bank of England and the Bank of England alone that dictates the pound.

The entirety of the argument is on the Bank of England bailing out Scotland on the basis of economic collapse, the same way that the US national reserve bails out various countries as a whole, as it's the international reserve currency. That's all their disavowing has powers to do, unless the sterling becomes the national reserve currency, it cannot actually effect trade.

But, again - if a huge chunk of your union was leaving without any change, and they were offering to pay for a proportional level of the debt, and that they're already your 2nd highest trading partner in the world, would you actually think it's a bad thing? I mean, put it this way - as the bank of england, there wouldn't be any more difference as it would be if scotland was simply a fully devolved country within the union.

And, as you said, the Euro is there.

If I got to name a new currency, i'd call it the #YOLO

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

The Nexerus said
Aren't Scots more in favour of EU integration than the rest of the UK? Just take on the Euro, then. I'm sure it'll work out.

That's one of the three Plan B's.

Plan A is the currency union.

Plan B1 is using the pound unnofficially.

Plan B2 is having our own currency.

Plan B3 is using the Euro.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

The Nexerus said
The UK's position on a currency union between the United Kingdom and an independent Scotland is identical to their position on the United Kingdom using the Euro. To quote the head of the Bank of England verbatim, "A currency union is incompatible with sovereignty."

Again, these are nice words. But it's a political move. Westminister has a duty to keep it's economy running, and if it didn't make a currency union with us. They're basically saying "We won't bail you out. But you can leave without any debt, still letting you use the pound anyway as we can't actually stop you, and if your country does fuck up, we'll lose our 2nd biggest trade partner and heavily ruin our economy as well".

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Sable said
I mentioned Greece in the sense that if your economy tanks you won't have the safety net of the EU to support you. Not that you wouldn't get loans and such, but your EU membership would certainly be jeopardized, if not delayed, if Scotland can't compete economically. It wouldn't be fun.

It wouldn't be, but again - we have a lot of industry going on as it is. But it is dwindling under westminister rule, it's why I regard staying in the UK as a bigger gamble, and i'm speaking on pro-independant points here, disregarding everything I said in regards to service base job markets in macro economics, which is actually my personal reasons for moving out. The fact that scotland would be looking to represent a more nordic nation in social economics is a huge plus for me too.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Halo said
Regretting my vow of silence more and more with everything you post. Jesus.

It's alright man, calm down. We're allowed to vote for independence <3

I think it's clear to say that, as an independent nation, we'll be just fine in the long run.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Sable said
I don't think it's just a political move, and I think the risks are very real. If Scotland's economy tanks post-independence, I doubt anyone is going to want to tie themselves to its sinking economic ship. The EU already has one Greece.

No, it's entirely a political move. The UK would be fucking themselves up if they did that. It's the same as the US and China in trade only to a smaller scale, no side would for a second want to remove something that's win-win for the both of them. Consider that Greece is more and more relying on tourism, which is entirely dependant on international wealth of the rest of Europe, their situation is very much different from us.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

The Nexerus said
Can you provide a source from 21.7%? I'm looking at a few different sources and they're all telling me that it's somewhere between 8.2% and 9.9%, so right where it ought to be in regards to population.

Apologies, the source I was looking at was during the 1990's when we subsidized that amount, http://archive.today/5vZ6C. You're actually correct, it's a 9.1% average, which still shows we disproportionately subsidise. The reason this comment is such a hot spot in the argument is simply because it's been such a prevailing view down south that they subsidize us.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Dervish said
Whatever happens, don't be a Quebec, Scotland. Halo's points about Scotland wanting all the perks of the UK without any of the responsibility is very, very familiar to every time Quebec bleats about wanting independence.

The perks we're speaking of are entirely ours by international law. If england was to refuse assets of the UK, they would equally have to let us off with the responsibility of those assets we're happy to take hold of, such as national debt. The argument that we're somehow "eating our cake and having it", isn't just simplified, it's wrong. For them to deny us this joint economy, would be as damaging to them as it would be to us. These threats, again, are political moves to keep us in the UK.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Sable said
Well yeah, sure, that's all well and good, but are you concerned about the confidence foreign investors would have in your new country?

Again, that's an issue all countries have at first. But we've already got so much going for us that is currently being benefitted by most in westminister. Anyone in scotland who's educated in the subject won't for a second claim that oil will fix it all, but what it will do is supply us the transition funds to get through the first few years to create the industry required.

Scotland has more chance of becoming an impoverished nation under westminister than it does on it's own. To simplify this again, one end is talking about oppertunity while the other is saying "yeah but there's a potential risk". That exists with any drastic action, and the risk in this action is not disproportionately high. Especially once Westminister brings out their plan to having a joint economy, which they're only refusing as a part of a political move as of now.

Latest Poll shows Scottish Independence in the lead.

Sable said
Concerning the production potential, are you concerned that foreign investors would be leery of investing the capital required to develop those potential energy sectors? If I were a Scot I think this would be a big concern for me. Independent Scotland isn't an emergent West African coastal state ravaged by war, not by a long shot, but any new government is ripe for mismanagement.

Let's throw this into context.

Right now we're underepresented by our current government.

They can't promise any new powers (or more so won't).

They're planning on destabilizing the NHS.

There's mention of potentially trying to take powers away from us.

Their main argument in the general election is "What about the pound?" in which they sneakily ignored the part in which they mentioned that no laws exist that can actually stop us using the pound.

If I could vote for england and scotland to remain the same but to uplift Westminster, I would. This campaign is less to do with actual nationalism, and more to do with having a likeminded, proportionally realistic governing body over a likeminded voting population, with a new government that can be openly "clean slated" moulded by it's will.

As for halo, I get this is pretty emotional for you. I just would try and refrain from putting too emotion into the argument. Ofcourse things get turned into bitesized bits of information for the scalability of mass media consumption. I won't argue that both sides keep the complexity of the situation, however if you were to look at it in the simplistic view, one states "oppertunity", the other states "it's complicated so it might fuck up". Scotland is one of the few countries in the world that has so much going for it as it is, any new government has teething problems, but it's also a risk to stay in the UK.

And, for UKIP, they are still the largest growing political party in the UK, mainly in england.