Turboshitter

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

*sighs* As much as I want to so we can move on, I can't say you're wrong, @vancexentan...

Hey @Cu Chulainn, I know this might be asking a lot, but could we see your previous Lancer concept? IIRC, you had one for a Servant who wasn't Japanese. Failing that, would you be adverse to playing Fake!Benkei instead of True!Benkei? I normally wouldn't ask this of players, but this seems to be becoming a point of contention, and I don't want it to cause problems later on. I won't force you of course, but I will ask if you'd consider it at least.

Perhaps we should do a poll? Does anyone else besides the GMs have any opinions on this?

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@Cu ChulainnLu Bu is literally the embodiment of terror in the early three kingdoms period. The dude doesn't have a skill of that sort either. Turbo has convinced me to loose my stance on the matter and just let it through regardless but I still believe it is unwarranted. Because unlike his Diarmuid's lovespot it effects everyone, and magical resistance doesn't cancel it out only remote skills like bravery, or madness enhancement do.

Edit: as for stats I am still adamant that strength be demoted to B. He isn't a Greek, or roman super hero, and he's not a super knight like a charlamange paladin, or a knight of the round table.

@vancexentan

The guy who was imitating Benkei had A Rank STR. Benkei not being just as strong would be absurd. And again, in the Nasuverse, consistency can eat shit (at least when it comes to Servant abilities, it seems). There are a lot of Servants who lack abilities one might think they should have or possess abilities one might think they wouldn't. It annoys the hell out of me too vance, but making a fuss about it is going to cause more trouble than letting it slide.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

It's actually part of his legend that his spookiness shook the hearts of people. In some variations of it, he actually does dress like an oni in order to aid in intimidating people.



I went with the FC I chose because it makes him look pretty oni-like already.

@Cu Chulainn

Hmmmmmmm... honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of this right now. I don't really object to Benkei when taken as a whole, however I'm not fond of the FC or the way Dread Visage is being utilized here. I get that it suits his legend, but the way it does next to nothing feels a bit tacked on.

Alright, how about this. I'll allow Dread Visage to inflict a stat penalty on the afflicted, but in exchange, True!Benkei should have the same stats as Fake!Benkei, or he should at least have the same STR and END. Is that agreeable, @Cu Chulainn and @vancexentan?

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by vancexentan>

I suppose it's my bad for exaggerating the description of its effects, but it's not that much of a threat. In reality, it'd only really be a game changer against cowardly foes. Most Heroic Spirits tend to be strong-willed in some respect, even without a skill like Bravery, and it could be argued that some Heroic Spirits who have fought similarly demonic-looking creatures in their legend would have some sort of resistance to it. In other words, to most Heroes, it'd be more like a "this guy is pretty spooky I should be wary" rather than a "oh boy its a demon I gotta play 200% defensively."

@Cu Chulainn

A lot of mental interference skills impose a stat penalty, so you might wanna make note of that if this isn't supposed to do that. Though if all this skill does is make people think he's spooky, I kinda have to wonder if it's really necessary for him to have it. Are you sure he really, absolutely needs this? We can try to accommodate it if you think he does, but it might be easier to just drop it.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

I decreased his strength accordingly, although it's a bit weird that Fake!Benkeiis now faster and marginally stronger than him. Not trying to argue it, but just putting it out there that it's odd to me.

The duel is supposed to be a line-in-the-sand kind of thing where he, if we're going MMO terms, "draws aggro from a singular threatening person." In other words, it's a forced challenge. I could decrease the range, but I'm afraid of the risk of making it too weak for its actual capabilities and what it aims to represent.

As his EX-Ranked NP, you can do things like chop his head off or stab him, but remember that his defenses also raise to immeasurable proportions. A conceptual attack like Gae Bolg would do the trick, but he's basically a wall once it's up.

Also, the previous picture I posted would have worked if I went with a Not Japanese Servant, in my honest opinion. Too much Western influences on the art.

@Cu Chulainn

Hmmmm... you have a point. If you want STR back up to A, you could give True!Benkei the same B+ Rank that Fake!Benkei has for END. If you'd prefer to keep his END at A+ and still have A STR though... well, I'd have to consider it, but I won't rule it out. Maybe you could nerf LCK or MAG again xP

As for the dueling NP, I'm just concerned about what happens if he traps Caster or Assassin in there because it's the first time they've fought and they have no idea he's mothafuckin' Benkei. That essentially allows Benkei to net a free kill before Black Faction catches on, and while it's hardly unfair given that this is a PvE RP, it does make my life marginally more difficult xP

Will he give chase once he traps them there or does he simply stand in one place waiting for them to attack? Can you simply refuse to fight, or try outlasting him by returning to spirit form?

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@vancexentan As for Dread Visage, there are a lot of Servants who have skills some might not think they'd warrant, so I'm willing to let it slide. Ultimately, it's a rather negligible issue compared to stats and NPs.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@vancexentan
I'm having a bit of trouble finding any proper source in terms of exactly in what capacity stats are boosted from regional fame, but using Vlad as an example

Lancer Vlad, summoned in Romania
STR B
END B
AGI A
MGI A
LCK D

Berserker Vlad, summoned in non-distinct location (no regional boost(?))
STR A
END A
AGI C
MGI B
LCK E

Considering Berserker Vlad's parameters are greatly increased from Madness Enhancement: EX, I do feel I have to mention the stats on Mordred being questionable. Right now she outclasses Herakles in parameters (X+ is actually a pretty major boost) which is more than a little bit silly.

For reference

@MeteorD

That was my idea, not vance's. As you said, there's no clear indication for what kind of parameter boost fame grants, so I went with a Rank Up to all stats.

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

<Snipped quote by Grey>

Blatent racism.

@Turboshitter@vancexentan

If any balancing is needed, I could rank down his STR, since he has Monstrous Strength anyway (which wouldn't have as much of a notable effect if his Strength was that high to begin with, anyway,) but even False Benkei has pretty high across the board stats, and his own EX-Ranked Noble Phantasm that's marginally more ridiculous.

He's supposed to be a more slow and rooted Servant overall, which means he can't really abuse his duel NP. If the enemy Assassin or Caster or other squishy gets in the range of it's really all on them if they can't outrun him before he uses it.

@Cu Chulainn

The strength nerf to B would be appreciated. If you want, you may increase MAG or LCK to B. And the dueling NP isn't of much concern to me, though I would like to know if it's possible to retreat or refuse the duel. Like I said in my post above, what concerns me is exactly what qualifies as fatal for his EX-Rank NP. What wounds besides arrows might kill him standing up? Could you stab him in the back or the heart? Could you decapitate him?

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@GreyOr I could say that's too much on top of stats that match a currently fame boosted Mordred. I was waiting for Turbo to give his judgement but I'm stopping the buck right there.

@vancexentan

His stats aren't equal though. At most he matches her in two categories out of five. And anyway, I've been considering.

I like Benkei's abilities, however I am worried about exactly what qualifies as "a wound that would kill him standing up". That seems vague enough for him to dodge a bullet on a lot of different fatal attacks. Does it mean he is specifically weak to being shot with arrows? Can you not die standing after someone stabs you in the heart?

Also, this is just me, but I liked the picture you posted earlier more. Nothing really important about that at all, I just think it looks better:/

Fate/numerus clausus (A Great Holy Grail War RP in Scotland!)

@KawaiiKyouko@Cojemo How're Rider and Beatrix coming along?