Unoedipal

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>
Okay.

@Zobozun

Yes. You can app Iskander, but if you app an Iskander clone then that's dumb.

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

You're going to have to be more specific on those changes. Also I'm keeping Book of Water. I wouldn't be doing Musashi justice if I didn't have this skill.

@IncredibleBee

I don't know if "Book of Water" is referring to "Book of Five Rings" or "Like Water".

If it's the former, you can keep it so long as it's properly codified. If the latter, you'll have to remove it or change it heavily if you want to be approved.

Parameters need heavy nerfing. I'm talking C for STR/END at best, based on not!Kojiro. The weapons section shouldn't call his weapons NPs when they're not.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

Also also, it says right in the ban-list that the ban on Eastern heroes has been lifted.

It's also not "obvious" to me why the Koha-Ace servants are banned, let alone someone with no existing stats or skills in the first place. Doubly so if I didn't base this app on the non-canon background character we know nothing about.

@IncredibleBee

Koha-Ace is a joke so taking things from it seriously is bad.

Check the last post on the previous page.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>
But what about these two?
This has been bothering me for a while now.

@Zobozun

Please carefully reread the banlist.

I'm honestly getting a little frustrated when I have to restate the same thing.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

We still have some basis for that clash. There's a semi-canon incarnation of Musashi with information that's questionable at best. Same reason you can't app someone like Caesar, because there's a canon incarnation.

Besides that, I don't think you'd like the edits that would need to be made, given, the fact that one skill's basically a weaker Knight of Honor which has no business being a skill, another is very vague and feels like a metagame justification more related to a fanfiction plot than an RP, the combat stats are so much better than Not!Kojiro's that it's not even funny, and the weapon is referred to as an "NP".

Since he's not a proper feature in Koha-Ace, I'll allow it, but you'll still need some heavy changes.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

But Vlad Tepes and El Cid are also national heroes in their respective countries.

@Zobozun

And neither of them are in Koha-Ace. "Patriot Heroic Spirits" just refers to the Koha-Ace cast.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

<Snipped quote by Lonewolf685>

I'm gonna need a source on that.
And even if he's canon, what does it matter? We've already got Tamamo and Vlad the Impaler.

@IncredibleBee

Here.

Do not app any of the following. I've included the reasons for each, for clarity's sake:

Gilgamesh: Balancing.
"Pre-Gilgamesh" heroes: They can't exist.
Individuals born after 1899: Not eligible.
Individuals still alive today in their mythology (Merlin, Hanuman, etc): Not eligible.
Individuals without human blood: Not eligible. (Exceptions can potentially be made on a case-by-case basis)
Canon Servants that we do not have full information for (ie, most of the Grand Order and Strange Fake cast): Obvious.
Patriot Heroic Spirits (Koha-Ace): Obvious.
Servants that are functionally just clones of canon Servants: Originality.
Gawain: Ambiguity over Numeral of the Saint's effect.
Nursery Rhyme: Balancing.
Lugh: Balancing.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

@IncredibleBee
Musashi's a thing in Koha-Ace, so he's unusable.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

For the servant, I got one or two in mind that wouldn't use NPs. Since it's running off a false grail, he'd have to have a low mana cost to be viable. So I'm thinking of a few that can get by on normal combat skills, without relying on some crazy special attack.

I'm also thinking that since this may qualify as a fake class, he'd forego class skills, if that's what you mean by nerf. But I think I could get by without them.

@IncredibleBee

It being in a Class Container is fine. If you'll be removing a Noble Phantasm, then unless the Personal Skills are just absurd, the only other thing you'll really need to do is lower Class Skills by a rank, in all likelihood.

You'll basically need the lowest maintenance cost ever, since you won't have Grail Support, which is important as I was explaining yesterday. If the rest of the cult is helping maintain it, that'll help.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

Alright, so with the Master, explain the nature of the cult/family in depth as well as their obsession with Fuyuki's Grail and how they found out about it. This will need to be very hashed out before I allow it.

With the Servant, just app it as you would normally, and I'll assign nerfs prior to approval.

Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

I think the ritual for summoning a standard servant is already something that was understood by humans, so with enough time and experimentation you can replicate the process, even if summoning the eighth servant does require an atrocity (not that Nasuverse is averse to those).
Even if the servant's own dead body doesn't power the grail, this does mean that the cult in question now has a way to reach the Root without sacrificing their own servant, which means you keep your super strong magical friend a bit longer AND you don't need to sacrifice him to get the super secret bonus, which would keep said Servant from turning should it ever find out.

@IncredibleBee

It's not, that's why when what the Fuyuki Grail actually did became public in Apo universe, everyone went "holy shit we thought they were joking". Also, the fact that the Fuyuki Grail's purpose is to reach the Root isn't public knowledge; even in the Apo universe where Grail Wars became a biweekly occurrence, that fact was only known to a handful of people in the World.

I'll allow this cult to have managed to find a way to, via Greater Ritual, do something similar to the Grail's summoning on a much smaller scale and summon/bind a Servant independent of the Grail, then choose to send the resulting Servant/Master to Fuyuki so that they can reap the fruits of the real ritual. However, as a matter of course, the Container for this makeshift Servant will be noticeably worse than the container made by the actual Grail, as given by Apo.