Last time I GMed was fun, I guess. That was on the old site. I don't really have any ideas, though.

I often find myself trying to create posts at two paragraphs long whenever possible. One to respond to others' posts, another to help advance the story a bit.

Considering the 65.5k(ish) character limit, 15k word posts are pretty rare. But posts approaching that area is entirely possible. Especially for the higher advanced collabs. When we transferred our advanced star wars RP from backups to the new guild there was at least one post that exceeded that character limit.

RPs based around longer collabs do tend to be slower, yes. But there's still stuff happening in there. The worst thing for an RP is if two people base around long collabs, while the rest base around quicker posts and neither party is willing to adapt. Thankfully, that is rare.

So far as long posts go, you can't have them be too long if only one user is involved, as that will in 90% or so of cases leave little room for interaction. It takes a truly well-written post to allow for good interaction if it is in the several pages area of length.

Some Advanced RPs can seem pretty dead, then suddenly have several posts in a couple of days. Ours had about three weeks with no inactivity, then suddenly four massive posts in 24 hours. So yes, it can happen.

One thing we've heard commented about ours is that unlike many it actually welcomes people that aren't used to writing long collabs. We don't really know why others don't allow such too. It never hurts to be helpful or open...

The problem with maximizing a post's length is that it most likely means one of two things. Either you are putting in way too much information and dragging it out so far that it will be hard for others to respond to all of the actions in it, or you put in so much detail you mention the mosquito across the road on your grandmother's windshield.

My issue with super long posts is that after an action in the first couple paragraphs, if you put like six more after that, who's to say that the reaction the action you took in the first couple paragraphs doesn't hinder other actions you took later in the same post? In many cases such as nation RP this is okay as you are mostly typing up what your own nation does or just updates on activity. Most people seem to believe that other players in a RP won't respond until after their post and that their characters are just standing around until then. The truth is response posts will respond to actions you took as they happened, not having their character respond to action 1 after action 9 is done.

I don't see RP as a game though. A game implies there is a goal and a way to win. RP to me is collaborative writing, and it's hard to collaborate when you assume things about your partner's responses.

Actually, the particular post above in our example fit in under category three. Not one and two. (No chance to reply to everything & TMI). It worked fine. Aftermath is an RP based around long posts with a lot of interaction between 2-4 of the characters without expectations that more involve themselves in every situation. Instead, it varies which 2-4 are involved in the post. You don't bring all your friends (or all your enemies) to a torture session.

No. Casual is not "purer" than Advanced. How does one even define purity when the act of role playing is literally defined in its own name? Role playing = Playing a role. It's akin to acting, which is in turn just professional level playing pretend in imagination-land. It's why Dungeons & Dragons was defined as role playing: A humongous portion of your entertainment value was literally playing your role, was getting into your character, and so on. However, role playing is not squared off to just Dungeons & Dragons acting skills--role playing is essentially just playing pretend. So if you're really into a video game, like Left 4 Dead, and start playing as Bill--watching your team mate's backs, always using the M16, leading the way--you're role playing. It's just a different form of it, no more or less valid or pure than any other, and to say otherwise is pure elitism.

Now, yes, there is actually a definable skill to role playing. You can see the difference between a terrible actor and a professional actor, for example: One gets into the role, adjusts their appearance, the tone of their voice, the look in their eyes, and really adopts what it is they're doing, while the terrible actor just imagines himself as person X, he doesn't actually really "become" person X, he's always consciously separate from it and never gets into the role. He fails to play his role.

The same applies to forums. You can see the difference between someone who gets into a character, builds a back story and tries to show multiple angles of that character, versus the person who's playing a walking, talking author insert, or a person who's field of comprehension of literature and role playing is merely tropes and how they are used, not why.

Casual and Advanced, while different in attitude about the type of writing used, do not in any way differ about the format of role playing used--PbPRP, specifically. Neither one is more "pure" than the other, it's skin-level differences. What you're more likely seeing is the boisterous voice of advanced proclaiming advanced literary knowledge and not understanding that they probably don't actually have that knowledge just because they can write ten paragraphs per post, and then confusing that with the skill of role playing.

Summary.
To put it metaphorically: Casual and Advanced are different in artistic style, not in that one is art and the other is not. If Casual is to games what Advanced is to literature, they're both still art, and they're both still role playing, in equal parts. Advanced just tends to get the two confused more often because it tends to get filled with more wannabe professional writers than Casual does.

"We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master."
- Ernest Hemingway

And, I might add, when it comes to guides on 'how to write' and 'how to learn to write' it's the blind leading the blind.

HeySeuss said
- Ernest HemingwayAnd, I might add, when it comes to guides on 'how to write' and 'how to learn to write' it's the blind leading the blind.

Ergo why when I write a guide on it, I always try to put a disclaimer that says I can only give someone the tools. I can't teach them how to become Picasso or Leonardo. A person can only be what it is they choose to be, with a great deal of practice, and effort, a nonstop borderline obsession with perfection.

The issue is not really with Advanced vs Casual, it's more so to do with the players themselves. While writing long-posts is cool and all, it doesn't make you an advanced roleplayer, it just makes you someone who can write long posts. This has been a source of argument among my group in the past, where a few particular people insisted that better players made longer posts, something that simply isn't true. The "purity" of roleplaying lies solely in how the details are presented, and whether or not story has been expanded, something that can be done in both long and short posts. Don't think of Casual as short-posts, think of it more as a relaxed environment focused on concise posting. Just the same as one shouldn't immediately think of Advanced as advanced. Advanced really isn't that advanced from time to time, and really should just be called "Regulated", since that's what it is. Though if you really want an answer as to which section is purer than the other, I would have to say neither and vote for 1x1. That's speaking from my own experiences with groups over the last few months, and how I have found that you can accomplish far more with a good partner in a 1x1 than a group of "Advanced" roleplayers. It's sort of the reason why I've decided to stop joining group RPs and focus solely on the 1x1s I have going.

Really at the end of it, though, if you're trying to figure out which style of RP is purer than the other, you might be doing this hobby for the wrong reasons. Just my two pence.

@Alfhedil: Funny, I've never been able to find a 1x1 partner that didn't completely rely on me for story information, try to dominate the story completely themselves, or solicited me for sex. Meanwhile, both in advanced and casual, I've found consistently good groups and players.

Also, 1x1 isn't more "pure" either concerning role playing. It's just a different format of the same thing. Different flavour, same food.

Brovo said
Funny, I've never been able to find a 1x1 partner that didn't completely rely on me for story information, try to dominate the story completely themselves, or solicited me for sex. Meanwhile, both in advanced and casual, I've found consistently good groups and players.Also, 1x1 isn't more "pure" either concerning role playing. It's just a different format of the same thing. Different flavour, same food.

But you promised me. :(

I've never found a 1x1 enjoyable either. Then again, I like being a supporting character.

Silver Carrot said
I've never found a 1x1 enjoyable either. Then again, I like being a supporting character.

Here's what's important, the truly vital question; 'is it fun for me?'

And that's a good guideline for the individual looking for an RP section to play in. Though I tend to think it's better to not worry about the section and look for the RP's that appeal to you enough that you want to jump right in.

Nah. With the right group, game hits it's stride, even reading the RP can be a lot of fun for a good Advanced game. Reads/plays better.

Same can actually be said for Casual RPs, Ruby.

With the right group, be it a casual or advanced group, both playing and reading the game can be very interesting. It could probably be said for free too, but we don't have any good experience with that, so we can't say for sure.

The "purity" of an RP doesn't hinge on the post length or even perfection of the language. It hinges on how well the players mesh. If the players work well together and can adapt to each other easily, then the RP will usually end up being an enjoyable story, no matter about the factors like language, post length or such.

Some players are more suited to advanced, while others prefer casual. And of course there's those that like them both.

I checked out an advanced RP once. It just kinda turned me off advanced RP completely. So I'm not sure what to say.

Tydosius said
I checked out an advanced RP once. It just kinda turned me off advanced RP completely. So I'm not sure what to say.

Once? I'm not sure you can really judge the entirety of the Advanced caliber of roleplaying by one game.

Ellri said
The "purity" of an RP doesn't hinge on the post length or even perfection of the language. It hinges on how well the players mesh. If the players work well together and can adapt to each other easily, then the RP will usually end up being an enjoyable story, no matter about the factors like language, post length or such.Some players are more suited to advanced, while others prefer casual. And of course there's those that like them both.

I have to agree - it's such a personal choice. Like, if you like Rowlings or Gaiman, Melville or Hemmingway, Wynne Jones or Modesett Jr. We gravitate toward those who write in a manner compatible with our own style of sentence, vocab, story, character. That said - I've still had someone I love to write with, make up a character who just doesn't like/get along with/mesh with a character I've created. Sometimes, it's the lack of "spark" as well, that can kill a story, no matter how many lines you type.

As for Adv/Cas/even Free - back when I had time to join group RPs, I looked for the depth of world development as well as the possible co-players who cropped up, and most definitely the GM's pattern of story construction-direction. Much in the way I look at singles for a two person RP now, I tried my best to gauge if the story was going to fit me. If I have a sense of what works with me and what does not, then I can find the story I will work within best, ensuring a greater likelihood that all will be well in the end. Ya ain't got that Chemistry? Nothing is going to drive that bus to its final destination.

Admittedly, the number was a piece of hyperbole. No one posts a 15000 word post. That said I do think at times I've gone less than a week without posting and been at least 15000 words behind. You have to keep in mind other player's possible reactions, and give them their chance.

Many good, hard to argue w/ comments. But I come from a tabletop background, not a collaborative storytelling one.

I personally think advanced RP should refer to the writing quality and depth, with post count being a likely indicator.
And this quote below was referring to an RP in which the opposite occurred, where post count took priority over depth and especially writing quality.

Tydosius said
I checked out an advanced RP once. It just kinda turned me off advanced RP completely. So I'm not sure what to say.

I should check out more advanced RPs to see the bigger picture.