Xzayler said
Lizard people are Narven. They are reptilians. I already have reptiluan people in this rp. If you want to give yours acid breath and horns its fine because they are pretty reptilian feautures. But there wont be a Draconis race

I used to be like you, always insisting on keeping every last little detail straight, always having to have things my way. If someone wanted more than one variety of elf, you'd probably let them have their way, so don't act like "The great Oz has spoken!" on me. You can fit two species of reptilian people.

Look, if I changed the dracons for this setting into a subspecies of Narven, would that satisfy you?

Aristocles said
I used to be like you, always insisting on keeping every last little detail straight, always having to have things my way. If someone wanted more than one variety of elf, you'd probably let them have their way, so don't act like "The great Oz has spoken!" on me. You can fit two species of reptilian people. Look, if I changed the dracons for this setting into subspecies of Narven, would that satisfy you?

Xzayler said
Lizard people are Narven. They are reptilians. I already have reptiluan people in this rp. If you want to give yours acid breath and horns its fine because they are pretty reptilian feautures. But there wont be a Draconis race

Do you just like not actually read responses and just try to start arguments or what

Primal Conundrum said
When he said he had everything, he meant that he had everything he needed / wanted for the setting, not that the setting has EVERYTHING.Also, Elves and Humans have some quite substantial physical differences, which of course vary by what your source material is. They might appear fairly similar, but Elves need less sleep, are more in tune with magic, live VASTLY longer lives, etc. It's not just cultural.You say that he might not make friends by excluding people, I'd answer that you're not going to make many friends by being so standoffish and taking things personally. Not wanting the race you brought up isn't an insult to you, just basically saying hey, try another race. I mean if swamp lizardfolk hadn't been okay, I would have shrugged and made a different character.

Not every setting of elves has those differences. Most significant physical differences boil down to a lifespan difference and pointy ears, if even that. The sleep thing only exists in D&D, if I remember right. I don't think I'm being standoffish here, only determined. I'm willing to compromise, but I'm not someone who caves in lightly when I'm not being treated fairly. I don't think I'm being insulted, just being treated in a very odd way.

Primal Conundrum said
Do you just like not actually read responses and just try to start arguments or what

I might not have seen every post that comes in. Sometimes, a post is made while the other is still being typed. That, and in this case, I want him to give me a straight answer as to whether or not the dracons will be a species, or a subspecies of Narven. Either way, I still get to play a dracon.

Oh, I'd also like to point out:

Aristocles said
I used to be like you, always insisting on keeping every last little detail straight, always having to have things my way.

That's kind of exactly how you're behaving now, you realize- "LET ME PLAY MY DRAGON PEOPLE OR ELSE YOU'RE CLOSE-MINDED" Also, taking that kind of belittling tone "I used to be like you" isn't going to endear you to anybody anytime soon.

You never were like me. Im just asking you to specify what your Draconis really have that so special and different from the Narven. Beside slight physical appearance.

Furthermore, you managed to create a hustle in the interest check of the rp. I even wrote in the intro post. I want discussion, not "let my dragonmen join or I wont join the rp" I am the GM and I asked for help not remarks on my personality thank you.
So either be calm like everyone else or leave. Thank you

Edit: If you still continue I'll ignore you. I dont want people checking thsis and see fighting.

Everyone else. Im really sorry about this. Hopefully wont happen again

I'm willing to offer you help and a whole bunch of other things. If you had just said "yes, you can play as one", then there'd be no problem at all. In all my years, there's only been one other person who ever gave me an issue with this, and he eventually compromised. So please, just tell me whether or not the "dracon as Narven" thing is okay. It's really not a big deal. I also never said "let me play as a dracon or I'll quit the RP" or something like that. I just want to be treated fairly.

I have a great deal of RP experience, having done this since 2009, with two featured articles on the D&D wiki, and a ton of background and experience with world building. I also have a dracon RP which I have kept going almost continuously since 2009. I know what I am talking about.

Now, what is so different? I'd have to know a lot more about the Narven to give you a straight answer.

Aristocles said
I'm willing to offer you help and a whole bunch of other things. If you had just said "yes, you can play as one", then there'd be no problem at all. In all my years, there's only been one other person who ever gave me an issue with this, and he eventually compromised. So please, just tell me whether or not the "dracon as Narven" thing is okay. It's really not a big deal. I also never said "let me play as a dracon or I'll quit the RP" or something like that. I just want to be treated fairly. I have a great deal of RP experience, having done this since 2009, with two featured articles on the D&D wiki, and a ton of background and experience with world building. I also have a dracon RP which I have kept going almost continuously since 2009. I know what I am talking about. Now, what is so different? I'd have to know a lot more about the Narven to give you a straight answer.

I design games for a living and have been running dungeons and dragons games for over a decade. I'm a published author. I had one continuous D&D campaign run for five years without players getting bored. I grew up in a family that worked in the game development industry and have been surrounded by this sort of stuff since before I could talk.
You're going to have to work on your credentials if you want to impress anyone.

What I'm seeing is that you're being quite bullheaded about this, and you seem utterly hellbent on playing one of these dragon people- you might not have outright said you'll quit if you don't play one, but your tone certainly implies it. You have been treated fairly, but 'fair' is not always synonymous with 'getting your way'.

You're the one who's been really quite unreasonable through all of this.

Hellbent? That's going a bit far, you know. It's just a simple disagreement. I'm not typing in all caps or using exclamation points or flaming anyone. I'm simply stating my point and making my case here. And no, I never said or implied it. You shouldn't put words in my mouth.

Fine, you have more credentials here. Yay you. Still doesn't mean you are right in this case.

I'm not so pig-headed as you might say. I am willing to compromise, as you have seen. You seem to think that "being treated fairly" means "shutting up and listening to the GM."

Look, I'm willing to play as a subspecies of Narven which just happens to be called a "Dracon." Can we get on with the RP-building and put this behind us?

Edit: both of you stop. No need to act like 5 year olds. Now no one is gonna join the rp...

*sigh* ok. Please just, answer my questions and don't get angry. And just talk about the rp please.
So. Lets start from the beginning ok?
Hello. Draconis can be a subspecies of the Narven, but you have to tell me why they have to be a subspecies and not just normal Narven.

What I have figured about the Narven already.
They are swamp and desert dwellers, living mostly on the south west of the desert, near the Issith (was it?) Oasis.
They tend to mingle amongst the humans of the area and get along just fine. Narven are often taller than the average human, and also more agile. They arent stronger than humans though, but aren't more fragile either. The desert dwellers belong to the Empire, a human Nation.

The swamp dweller Narven belong to no Nation, given that the swamps themselves don't belong to anyone. They don't have actual cities but can have villages, build upon the water and wet ground, mostly either floating houses, or built on longs, sustaining the buildings in mid air. They have no special affiliations with any race as far the the whole race goes, individual Narven might have something against another race though. They sometimes trade with the dwarves or people of the empire. I don't have any other areas to put the Draconis.

A reason? I can name several off the top of my head:

- They were once normal Narven, but they fell under the influence of dragons and adopted some of their powers, acquiring only a small taste of it. Even so, this taste was enough to change their physical form.

- They split off from the rest of the Narven at an earlier point in time and evolved that way over millions of years in the heat of the desert, very much unlike their swamp-dwelling brothers.

- They were magically altered by some mages or a genie or some mysterious force in the desert.

- If you don't like any of the above, suggest a reason. You already have most of them in a swamp, near a desert, so why not have a few of them wander off into the desert and be changed by it? That actually seems like a very strong reason, come to think of it. You could easily make the desert Narven "dracons." Animals living in different environments have adaptations to help them fit into their climate, even if they are part of the same overall species or genus.

So Draconis are desert dwellers?
I'm really missing your point. Narven ARE already desert dwellers.
Now tell me this. What makes you want to play a Draconis so so much that makes you not want to play a Narven with horns? Because honestly, you just seem to want Draconis. Not a reptilian race living in the desert.

Swamp Narven are still Narven. Just live in a different place and got different customd. Just like the Northern people are a different Nation from the Empire. They are all humans though.

So now. Either you start giving actual suggestions and let me name the races. Or then please leave because you are distrupting the thread. If youd describe a Draconis, I'd say Narven. But you say its not the same. It is.

Go find a better GM if you dont agree

I just want to keep the name and appearance, alright? That's not asking for very much. All of the other particulars can be decided by you. I will say that out of dozens of RPs that I have been in, only this and one other have raised so much as a finger against me playing the kind of character I'd like to play. Almost no one else has ever had a problem.

I've given you some very good suggestions. What else do you want? What was wrong with my suggestions?

And yes, while some Narven are already desert dwellers, not all of them need to be identical. Species can adapt to different conditions, you know. And if you don't like my suggestions, feel free to name some of your own, as I have said.

Or maybe just the dracon tribe of your pre-existing desert Narven. You can have more than one variety of creatures who live in a desert. If you really insist on it, I'll go with that. A tribe that just happens to be named "dracons." Don't be so inflexible. Work to accommodate players, not threaten them.

Man, just leave. This thread is ruined. Its a miracle if anyone else will want to join after this. Hopefully the OOC will go better.
So because it doesn't matter anymore,
*clears throat*

I have lizard people. I called them Narven.
You come and say you want lizard people called Draconis.
I say why can't they just be Narven.
You say because they have horns and have dragon powers like acid breath.
Me: You can have a Narven with horns and acid breath.
You: stop being so mean and let me have a draconis
Me: tell me why they should be so different from Narven
You: they live in a desert and the adapted.
Me: Narven already live in a desert
You: dude, just let me play someone called a Draconis with a specific physical appearence. I don't care about their culture or anything.

1. Why are you sticking around so long if all the other GMs let you play a Draconis and I don't?
2.You want a Narven called Draconis. I don't like it because dragons are special. They rp the focus of the rp. Sorry.
3. Now leave. Please don't do more damage.

I'm not doing any damage, I just wanted to play a simple race called '"dracons". That's all. You clearly couldn't tolerate that. Suppose a player wanted to play some sea-based reptilian species? Would you shoot them down as well? And honestly, your abbreviated version of that exchange makes me look quite reasonable. Who cares if Narven already live in a desert? You can have more than one species live in a desert. The sky won't fall.

And it's spelled "dracon. D-r-a-c-o-n. Not "draconis." I don't know why you made that typo. It's not hard to spell.

Even if dragons are the focus of the story, you can still have a dracon. Most games have humans as the focus of the story, but no one says it's a problem if a human-like species is also playable.

Again, I'm not doing any damage. How do I know this? If you had simply said "yes, you can play a dracon", there'd be no problem. You have sabotaged your own game by being so rigid, unadaptable, and stubborn. I wouldn't treat a player like this, and almost no other GM would. I know this because only one other has ever given me this much trouble. You owe me an apology for this treatment.

Look, if you let me play as a dracon, what harm would it cause? None. You can just let me in if you want to. Is this thread defunct? Not at all. I'll leave if you insist, but this is on you, not me.

Are dragons themselves playable or are they strictly npcs?

Aristocles said
I used to be like you, always insisting on keeping every last little detail straight, always having to have things my way. If someone wanted more than one variety of elf, you'd probably let them have their way, so don't act like "The great Oz has spoken!" on me. You can fit two species of reptilian people. Look, if I changed the dracons for this setting into subspecies of Narven, would that satisfy you?

All I gotta say is it is "Xzayler's story....."

Anyway I'll keep an eye on this and probably would like add to some-to the creative at the OOC stage. Because I think it would be easier to do so then.

An RP is never, ever the work of one person alone. He may be the GM, but it belongs to all those who play it. Just saying.

If he wanted to tell his own tale, he should write it down in a short story or some other form where he doesn't have to consider the input of others.

I'll leave this thread and take it to PM. I don't want to actually be disruptive, you know, and I said I'll leave. Maybe I can talk some sense into him, but away from here.

Aristocles said
An RP is never, ever the work of one person alone. He may be the GM, but it belongs to all those who play it. Just saying.

Right now, no one has joined. Because no characters have been posted. That is usually how these things work. So why debate/argue/discuss whatever it is called that this back and forth is about-why even bother with it when it is about a character idea when there isn't even a character sheet? Wouldn't it be so much easier to come to an understanding about what is accepted once the Character sheet has been posted?

Hello Gareth. Hello Clove.
Please everyone drop this Dracon thing.

So Clove. I assume you haven't read inheritance. As a quick answer, you cant play dragons by themselves. You can if you have the Rider.
The summary of Dragon Raiders: (everything will be explained in OOC)
-some people are chosen to become dragon raiders, that is done by taking dragon eggs, and going from village to city and making every human and elf (because they are the one who can be riders, for now) touch the egg, until it hatches. When it hatches, the human or elf is a chose dragon rider and will be bonded to the dragon for life. When the dragon becomes old enough, it will learn to speak (just a couple of months) they speak in a telepathic way with the Rider but can do so wuth anyone they please. So basically, as a dragon, you can only be a dragon of a Rider, and you must control the Rider as well. Because the two are always together if they can help it. They bond very strongly and are always attached with their minds, always sharing emotions and thoughts.

I wont let anyone become a Dragon Tider just like that. They are very very strong, can attack with their minds, use vety strong magic, have a dragon, are skilled in battle. So I dont want 50 dragon riders flying around killing everyone. I want to make sure you are able to handle such power without breaking the rp. The only way for that is if I see you rp. Then I will ask if you want to be a dragon Rider. Ofc you can refuse. Non-Riders can do great deeds as well. In the Eragon books, a random villager became one of the best warriors, commanding his whole village, guiding them through enemy terrytory to join the rebellion.

Things you will be able to do is affect politics, join battles, start battles, create and control your own NPCs during the rp and even make some into sctual characters without CSs. Even kill kings. But please. Be reasonable. The stiry is whats important, we can really turn this into an Epic. :D

Ps: Anyone got a tear in their eye from my final speech? No? No one...? Ok... :,(