QuietThinker said
I don't have a problem with mind control if it's effectively being incredibly persuasive. It's weakness would be that when it gets seen through (as in the decisions they are feeding you are figured out to just put them in a better position) then it loses all effect. That doesn't mean that you can't have it used on you again, but your character will then be questioning every move that they make to try and find out if it is actually their decision to do something.As for mindfrays.. whats the actual logic behind them? Because if it's a headache that gets worse the weaker their target is, and effectively acts like a debuff, then I'm all for that. It'd need to take quite a bit of concentration to use though: you can't use it while doing something else at the same time.So then effectively, that kind of character would find a place to hide, and make another character their "champion", feeding them thoughts that keep them away from them and on their side, while mindfraying everyone they fight to give them the best chances.To balance that, they'd probably have to be mediocre at actual combat?

Yes, most likely.

Mindfrays decrease will and aim which can lead to Psi panic, making the opponent weak mentally and susceptible to mind control to plant very, very persuasive thoughts in their head to avoid this certain spot where the mind controller is hiding and defend.

To balance this out, mediocre in real combat. But if mindfray and psi panic has been used on the target...

And the characters that are resistant/immune to "mind control" would just shrug it off and kill them with ease...

My main concern is that someone with that ability set wouldn't last very long. Arty's nearly immune, the overlord probably doesn't even have a normal mind to control, Thinker's character can move past any manipulation before it takes effect, and every other character has a will of iron that lets them shrug it off. In fact, almost all of my characters have some form of anti-telepathy skill or ability, just to highlight the fact that it's nearly useless in arena combat unless it's OP. Even for characters who aren't resistant or immune, it's extremely difficult to call accurate "damage" because we have no baseline to go with. With abilities that have a physical manifestation, we usually have a real world example of the damage they can do so we use that and either scale up or down.

All that said, I'm certainly not against mental powers so long as they're not OP (mind control is still a no, but mental manipulation is a possibility), but unless they are OP they have very limited usefulness and a specialized character isn't going to last long.

Schradinger said
And the characters that are resistant/immune to "mind control" would just shrug it off and kill them with ease... My main concern is that someone with that ability set wouldn't last very long. Arty's nearly immune, the overlord probably doesn't even have a normal mind to control, Thinker's character can move past any manipulation before it takes effect, and every other character has a will of iron that lets them shrug it off. In fact, almost all of my characters have some form of anti-telepathy skill or ability, just to highlight the fact that it's nearly useless in arena combat unless it's OP. Even for characters who aren't resistant or immune, it's extremely difficult to call accurate "damage" because we have no baseline to go with. With abilities that have a physical manifestation, we usually have a real world example of the damage they can do so we use that and either scale up or down.All that said, I'm certainly not against mental powers so long as they're not OP (mind control is still a no, but mental manipulation is a possibility), but unless they are OP they have very limited usefulness and a specialized character isn't going to last long.

Good point. Back to the drawing board...

And wouldn't absolute insanity protect from mind control?

PS:drew a pic of Teo

Teoinsanity said
And wouldn't absolute insanity protect from mind control?PS:drew a pic of Teo

No.

Well ,trying to mind rape him won't do anything,because his mind is already Messed up

Teoinsanity said
Well ,trying to mind rape him won't do anything,because his mind is already Messed up

Mind rape? No.

Plant suggestions? Yes.

They've already got voices in their head telling them to kill.

So tell them to kill your enemy instead, not you.

Insanity doesn't grant any inherent resistance to telepathy.

But you would probolu go insane from seeing what's in an insane guys head

Teoinsanity said
But you would probolu go insane from seeing what's in an insane guys head

Who said he's going to go inside his head? He's just planting suggestions.

And if they're insane, they're mentally weak, so they're even MORE susceptible.

Besides, when you use mind powers, you're resistant to insanity because you become strong mentally.

Well,not nessecelirly,there have been cases of insanity from power in fiction ,remember that jimmy neutron episode when sheen puts that helmet on

Teoinsanity said
Well,not nessecelirly,there have been cases of insanity from power in fiction ,remember that jimmy neutron episode when sheen puts that helmet on

No, to be efficient in using mind powers, you need to be mentally strong, VERY mentally strong. Going insane by going through a persons mind is very unlikely.

I'm sorry Teo, but you don't have super speed, and not only does lightning move extremely fast (too fast for a human to raise his arms to block it in time), but that was a charged attack. Even if you could get the gauntlets moved in time, they're made of metal and wouldn't actually do anything to impede the destructiveness of the attack.

Schradinger said
And the characters that are resistant/immune to "mind control" would just shrug it off and kill them with ease... My main concern is that someone with that ability set wouldn't last very long. Arty's nearly immune, the overlord probably doesn't even have a normal mind to control, Thinker's character can move past any manipulation before it takes effect, and every other character has a will of iron that lets them shrug it off. In fact, almost all of my characters have some form of anti-telepathy skill or ability, just to highlight the fact that it's nearly useless in arena combat unless it's OP. Even for characters who aren't resistant or immune, it's extremely difficult to call accurate "damage" because we have no baseline to go with. With abilities that have a physical manifestation, we usually have a real world example of the damage they can do so we use that and either scale up or down.All that said, I'm certainly not against mental powers so long as they're not OP (mind control is still a no, but mental manipulation is a possibility), but unless they are OP they have very limited usefulness and a specialized character isn't going to last long.

Alright, I've been out all day, so let me argue the case against most characters being immune.

For a normal character who's only defence from mind manipulation (thats kind of what we're discussing here rather than outright OP control) is a strong will.. that doesn't mean they can shrug it off. Its only when they have some physiological defence that they can do that. No, a strong iron will actually puts them at a slight disadvantage because the don't doubt themselves. Thats because the mind manipulation makes the target rationalise for themselves the thought that the caster has implanted in their mind: a self doubter is much more likely to realise, as they do something that outright puts a particular person at an advantage or disadvantage will make themselves wonder why the hell they did that. Someone with an iron will will probably ask that same question, but think that they just made a mistake.

Now my character is the iron will type, but thats only because they go through every possible option in their head first. So if the caster was being subtle about it, he's a lot less likely to figure it out. But when he's made to do one rather out of character thing, he'll twig it within seconds because he will question himself: he has all the time in the world to do it.

So its not useless!

I think in the general overview rules for arena RPs. Mind control is an absolute no.

BTW, now that i think of it, wouldn't Rauchnauts swing break all the bones in Max's arms? His punch alone can generate an amount of kinetic energy greater than that of a Vulcan shot (and that gun shoots some the largest fucking bullets a gun can shoot), and a swing with his longsword would have the speed he can generate with his arms be multiplied, as the sword will act as a type 3 lever that increases speed, resulting in times more power than his punch. So Max is trying to absorb ALL that energy with his arms, the shadows effectively acting as an anvil.

I'll just address the mind manipulation argument, since I can't say for sure how Max's shadow powers work and whether or not the force would break his arms.

Firstly, a strong will does not equal absence of doubt. It just means that a person is capable of resisting things like temptation, torture, and coercion to a very high degree. Confidence would be what makes a person more susceptible to the kind of manipulation you're talking about, but a strong will is not synonymous with confidence. Confidence can be a means by which a strong will is obtained, but so can many other things like family, love, an ideal, or a goal. A strong will is indicative of an ability to ignore or suppress influences that might interfere with whatever goal a person has set themselves at that point in time, so someone whose goal is to kill everyone in a given area would be less likely to ignore one of those people due to a mental suggestion than someone with the same level of willpower whose goal is to kill a specific person in that area who isn't the one they're being manipulated to ignore (if their sole goal is to kill the person trying to be ignored, that person would probably be screwed).

Secondly, the better a person knows themselves, the easier it would be for them to recognize thoughts that aren't their own. If I wrote a character that was extremely single-minded and who was very aware of his strengths and weaknesses, he'd instantly recognize and dismiss it as an outside influence if he suddenly had a thought that directed him away from his current goal. If, on the other hand, I wrote a character who was very capricious and whimsical, he wouldn't even realize anything was amiss until there was only him and the telepath left on the battlefield. And probably not even then.

In the end, it depends very heavily on the character the telepathy is being used on, as well as how the telepath uses their power. Without actually taking time to look into an opponent's mind to see how they think, the telepath could just as easily be blaring alarm bells as sneaking in surreptitiously. Like breaking into a bank with no prior planning versus getting all the alarm codes, floor plans, and camera locations first.

Example to that second point.

Notice how Grey Nasty is a lich.

It takes great power, study, self confidence, fear of death, a fear of no longer existing, and a want for even more power to become a lich. Liches sacrifice so much, just so they can exist a little while longer.

Grey Nasty would be wildly effective against a mental attack, simply because he's self centered. Just as Schradinger put it;

Thats fine, that all means that it can be countered. And you are correct about the strong willed part: it only really becomes a weakness when they manage to pull off putting it to work against them, and to do that, the caster needs to be clever with what thoughts they plant..

Anyway, I'm off for 5-6 days now. brb.

If you still have the time, it's your turn.

Sorry if i sound a little offensive in my post. I was just in the mood for making Rauchnaut sound like an arrogant jock and arsehole. :3