Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MrFoxNews
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Wilson I think that sometimes you forget that it's a roleplay and it's not about winning all the time. You don't need to be the best in any field to have fun.

Personally I think the idea of a space nation is awesome. But rather then have advanced weapons and whatnot why not focus on having more epic industrial tech and such.
On another note for those of you who like Sci Fi I'm going advertise for the other Rp much of this group does. Void Of The Stars. It's a crazy ass Sci Fi massup that I am really enjoying.

Keyguy, Duck, Darkwolf, hacker, and myself are all in it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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Or alternatively, duck, you can ban me because I'm defending myself because everyone believes that point defense is totally and completely inadequate and that this energy screen would be totally and completely useless. And no one would know about the energy screen anyways, so it's more like that someone will fire a low-yield tactical nuclear weapon instead of a more expensive full-yield nuclear weapon. It would be assumed that the tactical nuke would be enough to destroy the station sufficiently to render it useless, and the satellites around it would have to be routed to the station and then back to Ceres, because they only have short-range communication equipment and scanning equipment. It'd be hard to tell that there were weapons on them without actually getting up into orbit and getting a closer look.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Captain
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Admittedly, I'm discouraged by how 'high sci-fi' this is getting.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MrFoxNews
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... I'm sorry who is firing missles at you Wilson? I must have missed something IC?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Captain
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MrFoxNews said
... I'm sorry who is firing missles at you Wilson? I must have missed something IC?


They're hypothetical missiles, Herr Fox.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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MrFoxNews said
Wilson I think that sometimes you forget that it's a roleplay and it's not about winning all the time. You don't need to be the best in any field to have fun.Personally I think the idea of a space nation is awesome. But rather then have advanced weapons and whatnot why not focus on having more epic industrial tech and such.On another note for those of you who like Sci Fi I'm going advertise for the other Rp much of this group does. Void Of The Stars. It's a crazy ass Sci Fi massup that I am really enjoying. Keyguy, Duck, Darkwolf, hacker, and myself are all in it.


I am focused on that. But realistically, with two or three more world wars, with the chance of another one breaking out, and with their own vulnerability, human nature might decide to lash out at the CI. The CI has to be ready to, at the very least, stop something before it can go boom and kill a major portion of their population. They do not have millions of people. They do not even have a hundred thousand. They are low-population, and cannot afford to lose people to a conflict on-world that they are not very connected to. They have contracts to companies for materials that cannot be found on Earth, or for things that are rapidly decreasing in availability. And because there are not any treaties or anything else to limit them, they are making sure that they can keep their side of their bargains, and continue to flourish.

In the future, Ceres is going to be an industrial paradise and a technological wonder. Massive biodomes that hold an entire city, with an ecosystem arrayed around it, with smaller biodomes for tundra and desert and everything else. Artificial seasons, night and day cycles with advanced holographic and lighting technology. A docking bay large enough to hold a fleet, with tubes leading deeper into the asteroid to shipyards and repair facilities, and tubes leading out at different points.

But they have to get to that point first. I truly wish for that, but when there is war threatening all the time, one must make sure that someone won't run up and blow your front door open and set a fire.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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MrFoxNews said
... I'm sorry who is firing missles at you Wilson? I must have missed something IC?


The Captain said
They're hypothetical missiles, Herr Fox.


When everyone is talking about how missiles can easily just blow up my one and only station with a complete disregard for any kind of defense, I am going to defend my own.

I want a little paradise, so to speak, but when people in OOC start talking about how easy it'd be to blow up the one connection between Ceres and Earth, then I try to point out how it would not be so easy to accomplish.

Fire away, but all I'm trying to do is make Ceres into an industrial and technological center. Necessity and resource availability makes it ideal, as long as supplies can get there and they can get parts they can't get up there are transferred. But I'm also going to make it a really tough nut.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MrFoxNews
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But why would anyone do that to you if your so far away and not attacking them?

The only reason I can think of is because you might be helping their enemy. In which case you should already be defended by said ally right?

You could always play both sides like I tend to. Then back the winner all the way at the end of the war.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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MrFoxNews said
But why would anyone do that to you if your so far away and not attacking them?The only reason I can think of is because you might be helping their enemy. In which case you should already be defended by said ally right?You could always play both sides like I tend to. Then back the winner all the way at the end of the war.


The Ceres Independence is trying to establish positive relations with the Commonwealth and the Antarctican Union. The goal is to get protection from the Commonwealth, as well as supplies and items that the CI can't get on their own, in return for more advanced technology and resources and stuff.

The only enemy they are considering fighting against the Empire of America, since the Empire of America has an old New Horizons facilities right in the middle of their territory, and because an Empire means imperialism, and the Ceres is small, weak state with a good deal of advantages to the owner.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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A nuclear missile will damage, but the station is not small. It's not like today's ISS. It's much bigger, and holds well over one hundred people. Over five hundred. There are miners, station crew, extra pilots, a couple squads of CI marines, researchers and scientists, engineering crew and construction workers.


See, the problem with nuclear missiles is that they have scalability. Nuclear warheads in general can be made smaller and (in theory) be made to where you can squeeze one megaton of explosive energy out of a single kilogram of warhead material—though the rule of the day is that the larger the warhead, the more powerful the explosion. Also, refer to my previous comment regarding nuclear-shaped charges and their effectiveness in space. The size of the station matters little if it’s being ravaged by a Tsar Bomb-grade warhead (equal to 50 megatons of TNT, though the USSR planned for a 100 megaton bomb, but were concerned over the survivability of the bomber that would delivery such a weapon), and with advancements in technology come advancements in nuclear weaponry. We won’t even get into antimatter-initiated fusion warheads (though such a weapon would be undeniably expensive to create).

I don’t think you know how frail a space station is. Note that modern space stations get gibbed by tiny specs of dust that are traveling at 25,000 miles per hour; they typically strike with the force of a .44 caliber round, but this is enough to cause serious structural damage to a station or satellite, which can lead to the death of crewmembers (vented oxygen and the sort). Thankfully, the deadliness of such particles is lessened by the presence of strategically-placed Whipple shields, which operate in a similar fashion to spaced armor.

While a future space station could be made more resilient, they aren’t going to be floating tanks.

A nuclear missile would certainly break the current energy screen, but the CI are trying to make it so that it won't. Nuclear missiles are the most common space-faring missiles, since they go up and back down. An engagement between to space powers would undoubtedly be measured by who can withstand more nuclear missiles, with the line of thinking you all inhabit.


No. The first nation that throws a nuke in this RP brings about the end of the RP itself. You’re all in a MAD scenario. Once one bomb goes off, they all go off.

…But I’m going to assume this isn’t case because apparently two world wars occurred without the detonation of a single bomb (this conclusion being drawn up by the fact that the planet isn’t a radioactive wasteland right now).

And you say everything as if point defense would not have advanced. As if it would have stayed the same or become inferior, even though scientists that are closer to
a feat that no one else has even begun to encounter the possibility of are also working on making point defense efficient and powerful enough to stop weapons before they are tested against energy screens.


Then you’re going to be battling against the continued advancement of missile technology. Missiles don’t stop being effective when PD comes on the scene. I’ve already said this.

Additionally, just as missiles aren’t infallible, point-defense succumbs to the same short end of the stick. Your stations are not invincible and they do not retain space superiority or whatever it is you’re trying to shoe horn into the RP. Your nation isn’t even big enough to call any shots when it comes to the political scene, while its status as a space-based nation is a serious weakness in its own right. For example, how in the world are you getting the raw material needed to sustain yourself let alone develop new technologies when you have zero planetary holds?


You are not going to be talking about how everything would be so against point defense if it could have advanced farther than missiles have. I do not see missiles being fired every day across oceans. There is not as much need to make an anti-point defense missile, and so the funding and progress of such would not be as fast as a group of researchers with materials that others would never get in the same amounts with technology that is more durable than others with as much funding as they need. It is lower priority elsewhere to make weapons that would render point defense useless, while the advancement and usefulness of point defense is vital for the Ceres, and so it will be going much faster than the anti.


Why would PD advance farther than missiles have? Both technologies have a mutual line of development as detection and stealth technology does, in that both try to out-do the other. When radar stealth advances, radar becomes more powerful, for example. It’s a constant battle that probably won’t let up any time soon.

Also, the nations on the surface of the planet have every reason to chase after enhanced missile technology and more sophisticated point-defense technology. Missiles are a critical part of modern warfare and so are suitable countermeasures to missiles. Are you again trying to say that your nation is superior to everyone else’s? Let’s go over the signs of your powerplaying:

1) Is attempting to render the most powerful weapons devised by man obsolete by investing heavily into anti-missile technology and energy shield technology. Said weapons, which are nuclear armaments, are one of the few effective methods of dealing with his space station in a timely and efficient fashion.

2) Is trying to run a space-based nation that cannot be touched by standard ground-based weapons. The notion that the station cannot be touched by ground-based weaponry is incorrect.

3) Claims to possess uncontestable reign in space, and claims that his faction possesses the capacity to strike fear into the surface powers by using space-to-surface weapons. This is woefully false and downright suicidal on your part.

4) Is trying to monopolize on the design and production of specific military and nonmilitary equipment—most notable of which are energy shield technology, fusion technology and missile defense technology. All three of these technologies are major game changers when it comes to war and national economics.

So no, you would not be able to just wipe out the station with a flick of your finger. If push comes to shove, the station would be evacuated and pushed out of orbit, towards, say, the Moon. Then they would start claiming the Moon and Mars for the Ceres Independence, claiming that because they are unwelcome in Earth and in orbit around it, they'll just absorb all those superexpensive colonies up there like the Antarcticans did to the Antarctic outposts countless years before.


Because your super-heavy station can truly out-accelerate an incoming MIRV on an attack vector. Holy fuck do you have access to graviton technology or something? Super sensors of some sort? What’s your secret?

Also you act like the moon can’t be attacked by Earth. How are you going to claim the moon without the powers of Earth stopping you? Your plan makes zero sense.

And besides, you sound more like this is supposed to be superrealistic instead of just a roleplay. Point defense will have expanded more than the superduper unstoppable missiles that you keep blathering on about, and Duck has already said no orbital weapons platforms, which means you won't have the type that fires nuclear missiles or projectiles in the first place, which eliminates the need to have advancement in that area in the immediate future.


It isn’t about being realistic. I don’t care about the realism, frankly.

What I do care about is someone going on about being invincible when it’s been clearly proven that this is not the case in the slightest. Also, missiles aren’t orbital platforms, and if you’re trying to pull that rule on me, when are you going to apply that to yourself?

The missiles aren’t ‘super’ and they are not ‘unstoppable’, but your space station abides by the same tenants.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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because everyone believes that point defense is totally and completely inadequate and that this energy screen would be totally and completely useless.


I'm not saying it's useless.

What I'm saying is that it's not an impenetrable defense field that completely overshadows a piece of major military offensive hardware.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Great Nahman Jayden
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Back in my day we didn't have any of this fancy SCI-FI in our non-Sci-Fi Rps! *angrily shakes cane*
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by darkwolf687
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Keyguy, we have had long range air detection systems since the cold war. Flying dozens of aircraft close to peoples lands is generally enough for them to detect you.

also, I don't remember Duck stating no orbital weapons? He was the first in the RP to have them in his app :/
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by null123
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The Captain said
And this is also discounting the capabilities of a MIRV missile, which would further confound said point-defense systems.And, well, push comes to shove it wouldn't be uneconomical to just shove an asteroid into Ceres Independence installations, if we're already at the point of space combat.


Space combat at this point shpuld should really only be snall fighters and rail-guns strapped to sattilites

Wilson make corrections according to what ATSA has said

Also im gonna be at school tomorrow so im probably going to be inactive.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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Darkwolf:

duck55223 said
No
The factions with weapons platforms could cause major damage
And if you want to argue with me, I am the GM.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MrFoxNews
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I think he meant that weapons platforms would cause major damage to you, not that they aren't allowed.

I know for a fact that dark, myself, and Duck all have at least one.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by null123
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Wat?
Wilson how do you intercept that has no orbital weapons.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by WilsonTurner
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duck55223 said
Wat?
Wilson how do you intercept that has no orbital weapons.


Ground-based missile sites can still fire weapons, such as missiles, up to orbit. The entire whatever it was was about, more or less, the ability of my point defense being able to counter ground-based nuclear missile launches.

And the Ceres Independence has a dozen or so satellites arrayed around the New Point with interceptor missiles and light PD railguns.

As for your second statement, that didn't make any sense.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Senor Herp
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M-maybe we could not quibble about unsure freeform pseudo-gamey 'balancing' acts regarding so-and-so's invulnerability or non-invulnerability, without any objective point of 'this is entirely rational/irrational and can't be dissented against' to work from, and think about, y'know, how so-and-so aspect suits and advances the narrative in a compelling fashion. Yes? Maybe? N-no?

[size=nope]please[/qqcodeashit]
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Senor Herp said
M-maybe we could not quibble about unsure freeform pseudo-gamey 'balancing' acts regarding so-and-so's invulnerability or non-invulnerability, without any objective point of 'this is entirely rational/irrational and can't be dissented against' to work from, and think about, y'know, how so-and-so aspect suits and advances the narrative in a compelling fashion. Yes? Maybe? N-no?[size=nope]please[/qqcodeashit]


Let's go with Herp said. He sounds smart. Right herp?
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