Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Maxim
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Just made a post. Seems kinda suicidal to go in front of your meat shield, but I'm gonna try to trust Kad on this one.

...I really hope I don't regret this. :P
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Kadaeux
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Maxim said
Just made a post. Seems kinda suicidal to go in front of your meat shield, but I'm gonna try to trust Kad on this one....I really hope I don't regret this. :P


The idea is to get a clear unblocked shot, then move quickly behind Gryff as Gryff moves in front to protect you.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Raen Elvarasi
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Maxim
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Kadaeux said
The idea is to get a clear unblocked shot, then move quickly behind Gryff as Gryff moves in front to protect you.


Ah, that makes more sense. So this round I guess I just reload and maybe get a shot off (if I'm lucky), then next I fire if I haven't and then move behind the meatshields.

Personally I probably would've thought up a similar plan to Raen's, but I figure I'm the newbie. I'd better listen to the guy who's done Brovo Roleplays before. :D
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Raen Elvarasi
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Kadaeux
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Raen Elvarasi said Geez. Your furries are real assholes about everything, Kad.


No just IC Raen. You DID accuse them of being grave-robber. Ergo, they REALLY don't like you.

And you might have noted why I gave the suggestions I did. Strong chargers in the front, with a defensive line right behind them, with the equivalence of a cannon backing them, then two scouts and a fighter nearer to the back. Raen chose to take the back, because he is a more diverse fighter, and with the creatures we face, a direct assault is the least likely, as was demonstrated earlier by the Scuva.


Yes, and?

If you leave your ranged fighters in the back, they become vulnerable. It you put them in front of a Centaur, which I am guessing has a height clearance a few feet taller than a human, and an extra torso between it's legs, as well as a Minotaur, you make it a complete cluster fuck.


And if you put them in the middle with both heavy hitters in front you make the ranged fighters literally irrelevant to a fight. As in, they CANNOT fight because they have a big Minotaur AND a big Centaur in front.

If you take the time to think it through, they are not going to be the fastest of the bunch, simply due to their size and builds. It also means that you have a friendly obstacle to overcome before being able to engage in combat as you normally would.


Yes. Take the time to think about it Raen. You seriously suggested putting the two biggest blocks to visibility and ranged fire in front. And saying "they're not the fastest of the bunch" is just plain ignorance.

Thus why I suggested you two being at the front. Smaller Humanoids have an easier time maneuvering in smaller spaces, and tighter clusters. And seeing how they have shields(Trom, Nyla, Florence) they make for better defensive players. Same reason the ogres in Lord of the Rings were not the back backliners. They were used for pushing siege weapons and breaking through defenses. A Minotaur, and a Centaur, both of which are creatures famed for outlandish rage and a nack for charging, even when it is completely unnessecary, should not be put in the middle of a group.


A: Gryffs Strategy doesn't put either in the "middle" of the group. It puts them at the front AND back where their heavy hitting stature can come to play against an attack from either direction buying time for squishier objects to redirect to the pressed area.
B: Gryffs strategy, unlike yours, doesn't blind the ranged combatants from ever participating in an attack from the front.

And the set up is more or less meant for universal means. It would work both in open caverns or tight corridors....Anyway, that is my little rant. :P


Your strategy wasn't bad. And there you have the reasons for mine.

But the MAIN reason that Gryff and Murd opposed your strategy above all other factors is simple. It was Raen that suggested it :p

Out of character, your strategy wasn't terrible except for your placement of the two Mercs given the issue of blocking any chance of ranged fire. As for our 'cannoneer' he needs to be out front for both A: a clear field to select and fire at the best possible target and B: Because no sane (or even insane) individual trusts a guy with a blackpowder weapon. :p

I should know, in the last LoR I had two Goblins with Blunderbusses :p (Neither survived in the end, but they weren't the main characters, Xixis was.)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Kadaeux
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Raen Elvarasi said Yet think about it like this:


BY THE GODS!

Please use paragraphs. Walls of texts do not help anybody.

If they are doing their job properly, they won't block you either way.


You do know it's a small corridor right? They can't NOT block.

You are not being surrounded by a group of Secret Service Agents, using their bodies as bullet catchers. You are surrounded by fighters. They will not be working in tandem to make a meat wall unless they are blithering idiots.


Again. It's a corridor. If we were in a LotR-esque hall of columns you might have a point. Unfortunately we are in a corridor only just large enough for Murd and Gryff to move without becoming claustrophobic. (Correction, only Gryff is, Murd is extremely uncomfortable down in this complex)

A Charger is going to charge, and a Defensive liner is going to protect you. Not smother you. Thats the clear difference between a good defense and a bad one. A good Defender will maximize his teams potential by giving them the room they need to do what they need to do, while keeping them out of harms way.


No seriously, how big do you think this corridor is?

Putting you at the front not only fucks over every one behind you, as we now have an imbalanced defense, meaning they would immediately attack you and Gryff, as you are in front of Gryff, who makes an excellent blockade for anyone from trying to help you, and they would need a quick strike and then they could run.


You're really not very good at strategy. Not to mention hypocritical about it.

Now you're saying that nobody could help him because Gryff is there. But your original strategy had the two biggest people both there.

I have my swords out, not my bow, so even if I got a clear LoS, it would be pointless. Once you are dead, they just need to pick at the chinks in our armor. If they are semi-intelligent, they would notice the hatred, and thus pick me off, further limiting options, and then probably go for Murd, as he would be the next threat in line for being an easy target.


Your plan had you at the back. You have no ability to help at the front anyway. The rest of your point stands entirely regardless of strategy. That is the problem with corridors.

Big frame, small amount of agility, little ability to work in a sync with anyone, save possibly the Centaur on the other side of the group. Keeping you in the middle of a solid defensive formation maximizes efficiency in combat, and allows for less confusion.


Keeping him in the middle of a solid defensive formation removes his ability to participate in the combat in any meaningful fashion. Which minimises efficiency not maximises it.

The Chargers can lead the way, and take the blows, effectively clearing a path, with a Defensive formation to fall back into in such case that it may be needed, along with a very persuasive cannon held by a little goblin, with two more agile fighters, in the back, providing in support and spotter functions, as well as their ability to hold their own.


Incorrect. Your strategy makes support for Murd and Gryff literally impossible. There would be neither room to move to support and definitely no possibility of safely supporting with ranged fire.

Now, if you are talking about a formation like a tight diamond Shield Wall, then yes, it would be stupid to even consider having any form of ranged unit if it can't fire over the formation. But in this case, it would be a loose formation consisting of a double double single single double, assuming Aslo were to stick by me. It could also be a double double single single single single line formation, but that would mean a less consistent defense, as the triangle in the back turns into a line, which is far less defensible. But seriously. Stop thinking about it like we are all shoulder to shoulder.


IT IS A CORRIDOR

This is a Skirmish formation. Not a 1770 British army formation.


See above. There is no room for a skirmish formation.

Think of how many people we have and the formation I suggested. In the front, there would be two fighters completely capable of front line fighting, and yes, they would be rather hard to shoot past, it would be a terrible idea either way, as a musket-type gun is fairly inaccurate to begin with.


Not hard to shoot past. Impossible to shoot past.

Imagine going to the movies. (For this example you're not allowed ot move from your chair. For this example you're also only 4 foot tall.)

Now you sit down and have two seats in front of you.

2 guys verging on 7 foot tall and 600 pounds sit in the seats in front of you. You are NOT going to see the movie.

Now if 1 of them sat behind you instead you could still lean over and see past the other one.

And hell, here you even admit that putting the musketeer (so to speak) in the middle is a bad idea.!

Then, around you, your have a loose three-point triangle of Imperium guards, giving you both cover when needed, and a good place to take a steady shot from. Behind that diamond would be a pair of fighters suited for survival and skirmishing. I, being more based around stealth, become more useful when not charging, nor being a target, thus you would have little obstruction from me, and I would think the same goes for Aslo, even though his style is different. By the way, here is another question. I assume you have played some form of strategy games. Maybe X-Com, or Starcraft, or one of the many others that fall into the broad category. If so, then tell me, have you ever fielded a ranged unit at the front of your formation?


Yes. All the time. And guess what, you give your ranged units uninterrupted lanes of fire and voila! They become far more useful and can... *drumroll* move behind a close in fighter when the enemy gets close!

It's almost like real strate.. oh wait, that's how musket formations DID use to fight.

And so did Archers in the "medieval" days and earlier. Their job was to move out front, fire and THEN move behind the main infantry forces for combat.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Herzinth
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do the conga
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Icarus
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Herzinth said
do the conga


I'm more partial to the limbo.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LimeyPanda
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rayn Night
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Icarus said
I'm more partial to the limbo.


Let's do the Salsa instead
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Gat
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Herzinth said
do the conga


Need someone with a yellow suit and green mask for that.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alphakoka
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Gat said
Need someone with a yellow suit and green mask for that.

No.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Raen Elvarasi
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tempest
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Okay, maybe if it was a bow or crossbow, and you had a very precise ranged attacker you could use the strategy of shooting into melee. But even in the first mission we already had the instance of that backfiring as Ceann shot an ally (Rayvon) by accident in doing so. A blackpowder weapon has even less accuracy (incredibly less) and does far more damage. To try and shoot into combat with that would be liable to cripple an ally. THIS IS NOT ADVISABLE. So Raen. To have a cannoneer shoot ahead of the group with that before falling back in the midst of the party as the chargers charge forth is actually quite smart.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Raen Elvarasi
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tempest
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Raen Elvarasi said
Agreed. But it is also very easy to take advantage of, and thus weaken the team. That is why all my plans rely on a good defense to make a stable offense.


... But also have the canooneer shooting into melee and killing your own team. Which is not a good defense or offense.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Icarus
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Raen Elvarasi said (Raen's well formatted opinion)


Thank you for paragraphs.

That is all.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rayn Night
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Icarus said
Thank you for paragraphs.That is all.


Man, you guys are going H.A.M. on his Wall of text.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Kestrel
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Here's a secret; it doesn't matter which strategy is the best, it matters what the characters will do. Hell, we're not even talking about rationality here. Because that's what's happening and would-have isn't a super useful topic.

Kad mentioned his characters mostly dismissed it because they dislike your character. That may not be the most reasonable motivation, but it's a totally viable action for a character, because here's another secret; characters don't have to be reasonable. It doesn't matter how optimised your plan of attack is if it doesn't garner any support. Sure, this might frustrate your character, and if it diminishes their chances of survival I'm sure that could frustrate you to a point as well.

However, and oh joy here comes secret #3, you roleplay with people who make their own decisions about how they write their characters and that's a good thing. I mean, otherwise the roleplay would be pretty fucking boring. Shit may go wrong. Dudes may clash and I sure hope we'll be seeing plentiful catfights throughout *cough* That's all part of not just good roleplaying, but also of a good story.

It's just raining nuggets of wisdom.
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