Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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Ichthys, wow! Just wow. Thanks for answering the questions, you're creating a really immersive experience.

Schradinger said
Even in our own world, there are smart people and not so smart people, and while both of them have access to the same technology, one will be much more adept in its use than the other.

This probably sums it up. I agree, good one Schradinger.

Edit: You guys, reply too quickly for me to keep up XD Ichthys, you said we would leave the occult out of the RP, but, building on Schradinger's philosophical musings, you should address how the body/soul/mind/spirit... works in relation to the magic around it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dead Cruiser
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But here is the burning question I've been leading up to: can I have horrid little minions made of various scraps of flesh scuttling about my evil laboratory, completing menial tasks and gurgling, "Yes, master" to my melodramatic orders?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Girlie Go Boom
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Hi!

I am interested in joining this RP.

Oh and hi, Nemairaire~~<3!!

The things brought up by all the potential RPers are rather interesting too and like I am sure I will have my own questions to add into the mix.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by BingTheWing
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Looksy goodsie. But like normal TV shows,

we must have ships.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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There should also be airships in addition to normal ships. The presence of magic would make the concept much more attainable, and who wouldn't want a method of over-land travel that's faster and more reliable than horses? They obviously couldn't carry as much cargo (as waterborne ships), but their speed and convenience would easily make up for that deficit.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Milieu
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Well you've answered the gist of my question, but I'm still confused about this coven's retention of power. For instance, you mentioned that within the coven itself, they will have a hierarchical caste system which may range from servants to the Lords, but who brings home the bacon? Typically, in relation to our own world, civilization emerged from a development of agriculture and an abundance of food, in which political systems only emerged because there was now a surplus of resources to retain an army. Political factions always rely on force or some industry in order to maintain their dominance. So do the D'Cerf's utilize force or industry? Do they use fear and racketeering to engender continual financial/resource support from the, let's say, outlying regular serf villages whom they impose taxes on (taxes in the form of actual currency, or just a percentage of supplies)? Or do they maintain power and patronage with their mysterious underlying occult, which may also put the serfdom in a perpetual state of zealous traditional support? Do they convince the public that the other covens are the enemy?

Essentially the question can be boiled down to; how do they garner support to fill the storehouse, and what methods do they use to galvanize public opinion to prop up their reign?

I ask these questions to clarify because this is the aspect that really drew me in.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Sorry for the belated OOC, all and thanks for the patience. I started having some late night computer issues, so I took that as a sign to go to sleep (since I had work in the morning anyways). Well, I just got back home; I will answer these recent, unanswered questions, and then post up the OOC.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Blackbeard
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I hope I'm voicing myself in time, are there still spaces available? this seems like a really cool RP.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by lydyn
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Ok, I stopped readying at the end of page two, haha ... so much to read, but it's helped me refine my idea for my character. :D I really hope this takes off and that I can be a part of it. I am personally thinking of a sort of legendary-type mercenary (or well renowned because of certain events) that will be a bit in the middle of the whole conflict ... and that she'll be using a very mythical (as in having myths revolving it) and particular magic (which in my mind, can be explained as a sort of rare genetic coding that allows her to understand it unlike others). So, here I am, awaiting an OOC. ^.^
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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On Souls, Spirits, Life, Death, Necromancy and the Occult:

- To begin, a fundamental premise for the realm, which is that all living, human beings are composed of three parts: the physical, the spiritual and the soul.

The physical is the irrational part (meaning incapable of thought; the body is autonomous and not dynamic), the quantifiable part; it is the organs, the skin and etc. In a connection to sensation perception, the physical is what receives a given sensation, although it doesn't necessarily perceive (that is to understand or actually feel) it. All matter has a a physical part, from metals to creatures to humanity.

The spirit can be compared to the energy of the human being, the 'lifeforce'. To draw a connection, it is the similar to the lifeforce in early Daoist belief. This is what gives any living being the capacity called 'life'. The spirit is largely impossible to quantify or behold in any way though, but it is figured to exist because the realm deduced that their must be a difference between living and nonliving beings. What is the difference between metal and creatures, if not for one is living and the other not? And it is this that the term spirit has been used for. The spirit by itself is primal and this is the aspect of a being that causes desires and wants, in charge of feelings and emotion. In the connection to perception, the spirit is what allows a sensation to have a feeling (that is, the spirit is what makes some sensations positive or negative, harmful or not). Unlike the physical aspect, only living matter/beings have this: creatures, humans, plants, etc, while not nonliving things like metals.

Finally, there it the soul. This is the unique aspect only present in humans. It is comprised of the consciousness and the mind. This is where personality and reason and the like are found. The soul is also what allows human beings to spellcast, the distinct activity unavailable to other things. In the sensation/perception comparison, the soul is what processes the sensation (that is, the soul is what actually recognizes the sensation).

To oversimplify this a bit too much, the physical is the body. The spirit is the heart. And the soul is the brain.
To try and put it in other terms, the spirit is the "Id", the soul is the "ego", and the physical is really none of it at all, since it has no higher function than to be a quantifiable, physical state of matter - a vessel. In this Freudian relation, the "superego" would be found between the spirit and the soul, as the conscience requires emotion as well as reason/understanding to work.

One other thing is know is that the spirit and soul are eternal in the sense that they don't die, though I can feasibly see moments where it can just be plain destroyed and wiped from existence. The body, on the other hand, is temporary and temporal, subject to the rules of matter, atrophying away after so much time.

When any living being dies, the spirit is lost and the soul as well, while the physical body is left to begin to decay. It is unknown if death causes the departure of the soul and spirit, or whether the two aspects are removed first causing a subsequent death. Moreover, the spirit is what remains active in any form of the afterlife; the soul usually becomes inactive. Now, this isn't to say that the dead are without knowledge, they just are less prone to critical thinking and all that, being above mortal concerns, they have no need of the nutrition necessary for the body or the problem-solving of the soul, merely the feelings of the spirit. Still, as always, there are exceptions and these exceptions are the dead who still actively use the soul; it is usually these beings (we'll call them ghosts, as to not confuse terms of spirits and souls, which are distinct and already defined) who interact with the mortal, physical realm for whatever reason.

Please understand that the soul and spirit, though distinct, are one entity in the sense that the soul is never without the spirit and vice-versa. Still, with that said, and as alluded to above (and will be alluded to below), one aspect can be 'inactive' even though it is still inherently present. It's like putting that aspect to sleep or turning it off; it's not merely destroyed. Only the physical aspect can be removed from the spirit/soul combo. And again, these soul/spirits without a body will be given the general term of ghost, just to keep anyone confused form calling the ethereal being a spirit and stuff.

Anyways, there are certain scenarios where the soul or spirit can still be left inside the body without the other.

In the case of a body and an active soul (and inactive spirit), the being is considered amoral. In function, they are like robots, a rational being lacking a heart, able to think and act but having no source for emotion or feeling. These beings also have no 'reason' to exist, as the spirit is where desires/wants/dreams/aspirations/etc. stem from. They just follow directions and do what is smartest, considering their objective and situation. These are your undead husks and vessels. Due to the active soul, they can have the mental capacity for speech and etc.

On the other hand, in the case of a body with an active spirit (and inactive soul), the being is similar to an animal, primal and savage, an irrational being of emotion, only doing what they feel they need to do, which is usually along the lines of surviving, keeping the physical intact. These are your brainless undead creatures, like zombies, just waiting to do whatever their whim or natural instinct causes them to do. Considering the inactive soul, this is why zombies and related creatures are incapable of speech, because they lack the mental capacities.

A body without either spirit or soul is just a lump of bones (and maybe flesh), a sack of potatoes. They could theoretically be manipulated with magic, similar to a puppet, but they are not autonomous or alive at all.

Necromancy can be considered a general term for any effect that causes a body that has lost (or didn't have) a soul/spirit to have one. Either the spirit, the soul or both can be fully returned to a being, meaning you can have all of your "zombies", "husk slaves" and "resurrected individuals"

-

The Occult is just the unknown thing that most people commune with to a spiritual degree. It's just a part of their belief system and faith. The actually occult is mysterious and just as unknown as magic though, so whether it plays a part in anything (or not at all) and how it does is not known.
To DeadCruiser:

- With all that I've said so far, especially concerning the above answer on soul and spirit (and my prior posts on automatons and technology), I can say that you can have little minions to an extent, as I am enacting some limitations just for the sake of power-balancing, OOCly. First, you have to realize they'd be incapable of magic themselves since they aren't human beings. Second, they'd be considered automatons, since they would theoretically lack both a soul and spirit, although they are capable of action because in pure technicalities, they do have what one could cal a "basic soul". Therefore, they can only follow the directives given to them; they never do anything else beyond their objective, although they do attempt to do their objective in the most efficient way possible. Once a mission is complete (if it isn't a repetitive task), they'd be in a sort of hibernation, waiting the next order. Also, realize that just to refrain from having the minions being overpowered, the minions will be relatively weak physically, in terms that they can be destroyed and broken to an easier extent (though, their sharp weapons and experimented bodies can still cause damage; it's not that their power is weaker but that their constitution/durability is). And the final restriction would be that you can only have a few haemonculi to call your minions, again for the sake of power-balancing. Three seems like a good number, I think, maybe.

Other than that you basically are allowed the "horrid little minions made of various scraps of flesh scuttling about [the] evil laboratory, completing menial tasks and gurgling, "Yes, master" to [melodramatic orders]?".
On the topic of means of transportation:

- Airships, in the way I think they're being imagined, can't really be done with the technology of the time period. I mean, in our world, motorboats (that is sailboats autonomously maneuvered by mechanisms) didn't really become possible until around the 18th century, with the invention of a screw propeller and steam engine and that proper gliders weren't invented until the 17-18th century either (with the very powered aircraft not created until the 19th century). Thus, the realm is still using glorified sailboats (and perhaps basic sailing ships) for mere water. Plus, they'd need understanding of advanced aeronautical physics, which I would assume is beyond their current level of understanding.

Still, with magic, I can see certain versions of 'airships', but they'd very primitive and would still be considered 'human-powered' because they would require a constant human(s) to use spellcasting in order to achieve the desired effect of lift. These airships would be like early sailboats probably, merely going to where the wind takes them. Still, with enough humans, some witches could spellcast lift while others could spellcast a specific wind-force to propel the levitating ship where they want. Again though, this is highly complicated and difficult (and for efficient and semi-reliable travel also involves multiple witches), so travel by air would definitely not be favored over the typical horse; it is too much difficulty for something that could be substituted by the easier-to-handle horse riding. Again though, there may be specific situations where it could work and be the better option, I guess.
Regarding coven politics, sustenance, power and the D'Cerf's system of government:

- Beginning on the topic of resources and sustenance, remember that other than magic (which is really quite normal in society and culture), coven work exactly like any other human form of organized civilization. Thus, to illustrate, the ones who bring the food are the ones whose duties involve the gathering or development of good. That is, farmer (those who deal with flora), as well as hunters and ranchers (those who deal with fauna). Nothing really unusual here. Sure, maybe they utilize spellcasting to some effect, but again (as mentioned previously), magic isn't going to solve any problems related to resource harnessing and gathering.

See, just like in our world, in the realm, humans still need the same basic, fundamental necessities to live, and so the progression and development of civilization is identical, originating from the creation of sustained agriculture and moving on from there.

Speaking on dominance and the question on what makes the D'Cerf better, I reiterate the importance of the resource called humanity, which I argued was the most important resource in a previous post. The D'Cerf is the most powerful, in short, because of their number. The D'Cerf range in the upper 100s, which is higher than the other coven that only boast population sizes in the middle 100's (at maximum). Now, you may ask what got them to this point, and honestly, I can't tell you that exactly. Perhaps it was good agriculture and a boom in childrearing, but regardless, the D'Cerf grew above the others and came to the point where because of their number, they began to progress socially, technologically and magically. With more people to farm, more agriculture was made. With more thinkers, other spells were properly discovered. Et cetera. Et cetera. Now, I do realize how idealistic this sounds, but really this is how things are. And remember to keep the perspective that this is merely in comparison to the other coven; keeping a global perspective (and comparing them to our world), they are still far, far, FAR more underdeveloped than we. Again, their time is of roughly the middle and dark ages (more towards the dark ages); they haven't even reached their renaissance.

To clarify, a coven is merely the word used to describe these bodies of people. As I mentioned in an earlier post on the definition of a coven, it is literally just the word I liked to use in this realm. Really, a coven is entirely synonymous with the world civilization. It doesn't really indicate size or power or resources, it just means a group of people who live in a community. I originally decided to use this word based on the existence of magic in realm. Don't let it confuse you.

Also, recall that all of the covens in this RP (the ones that will actually be RP'd and involved) are all relatively small. All of them are confined within their own set of walls, being similar to castles and holds, than whole kingdoms or provinces. Smaller than even city-states. The reason coven developed separately from one another and not combining into one government (besides the obvious reason of ancient, small communities having been found independent of one another) will actually be explained in the RP, during one of the later chapters, since it becomes pivotal to the a portion of the plot.

Going on, it is through their power in number that the D'Cerf retain their rule over the other coven, because with their number they have both the benefits of leading in force and industry. And yes, the D'Cerf do require "security payments" from some (not all) of the other coven, threatening to kill all inhabitants if they don't. Again, this is a darker RP, things like this are bound to happen; the political leader of the D'Cerf was a bit greedy, although a tremendously good leader for his coven, if not entirely a good person to those outside the coven. Regarding industry, the D'Cerf leads in most areas, particularly in magic. Having a larger number of occultists and scholars has given them the upper hand in general, compared to other coven, so the D'Cerf often wave and trade their intellectual superiority around to get what they want.

Concerning public opinion, since the coven, albeit larger than others, is still relatively small, and because of that a sense of community and "family" (a better word is nationalism) is evident. Coven are not highly developed political structures; again, they are kingdoms. So being in a coven is still a lot like being in a group or team or order, there is a sense of belonging within the group, being in the inside. This is one of the underlying reasons between the current competition (and sometimes animosity) between coven, among many other things.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Now, to actually finish the OOC. :p
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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The OOC is up.

You can find it on the Advanced Roleplay section, by clicking THIS link or by clicking the hotlink in my signature.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Nemaisare
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Simply because this is where the conversation started.... Would an airship than be used, rather than as a means of transport, but possibly more along the lines of 'in order to impress'? Make a big entrance? We have the capability and the numbers to lift our people into the air and bring them before you, united... sort of statement... Maybe?

Also, whoo! So much info!

And heya Bunny! Long time no see.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Those are all possible uses and reasons for an airship. Wouldn't be the only thing, of course, and they are definitely not ones that I considered, but they're definitely an option.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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One last question, how long is the average lifespan of a witch, assuming no one murders them or they dont starve to death, etc?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Well, considering that in the Middle Ages in our world, the life expectancy was within the 40s, I can make the estimation that with the different nature of the realm (magic and such), then we can bump the rough estimation to the 50s (perhaps even 60s). Of course there are the few who might live beyond the expectancy.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by BingTheWing
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Schradinger said
There should also be airships in addition to normal ships. The presence of magic would make the concept much more attainable, and who wouldn't want a method of over-land travel that's faster and more reliable than horses? They obviously couldn't carry as much cargo (as waterborne ships), but their speed and convenience would easily make up for that deficit.


No, no, no, I meant the fandom ships where you ship dudexdude together. It happens in GoT, but not as much as... ah... Supernatural? Or Sherlock? Johnlock? Whaddafock?

And no, we won't have this IC. OOC stuff to do when bored.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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Lol. I've never gotten into that side of fandom. Didn't really see the point. Though I'm sure you'll be free to ship to your heart's content.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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Scradinger, I image searched air ships, they are so pretty!



Please almighty and benevolent ichtys! Let us have airships! They dont need propellers and ships have been around way before medieval times! There could be a coven based around Air Raiders like the Greyjoys!

Edit: Greyjoys of the air. Their power lies in their air fleets and they raid the lands around them. Their castle is high up some mountain, so they have no land for crops. They let other covens use their airships and their crews of Aeronauts in exchange for supplies!
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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I was actually thinking more along the lines of a zeppelin style airship as they appear in Stardust or that newest three musketeers movie (though without propellers or cannons). The air greyjoys could have developed a technique for enchanting the wood as it's built that makes it function as if it weighs almost nothing, and lift could be achieved by heating the air in the balloon and and harnessing the winds with magic. The specific techniques used would be their most closely guarded secret, so they'd be the only ones with reliable airships (barring those captured in battle).
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