When I first got into role playing I was most attracted to the concept of collaborative creative writing, where multiple writers work together to weave an interesting story through taking and playing roles of various characters. It was an amazing concept. But once I started RP'ing I noticed for years that a lot of players are just that, players, not writers.

Nothing gets on my nerve like when I or someone else starts an ambitious original RP with new and inspiring premise, and interesting characters and initial plots, then some player comes in and ruins it by mediocre writing and lack of creativity or originality.

God some awesome well written RPs are ruined by people with so uninspiring posts they seem more like chat logs than actual collaborative contribution. I believe that role plays should be held with high respect and regard as a form of literary medium, rather than a generic tool to be entertained with.

To say it bluntly, some people write like it was some low budget B-Movie. Which really kills the vibe and momentum of an enthusiastic group of writers.

I am just mad and ranting because I had it with lame let downs whenever a cool RP dies because of this. #Rant

I question if a singular person can really be blamed for writing poorly and killing the roleplay.

I think a lot of getting off the ground is trying to balance player expectations from the interest check with the actual play in the in character. It isn't likely 'subpar' writing killing it, but the expectation not meeting up with the play.

I also see that a lot of 'unique concepts' aren't formed well enough before they start and that causes a lot of issues with them. Too often I see people jump in and rush their 'original concept' and that is what kills it. Ideas often need an extra amount of time to flesh out than people give them to really make them as compelling as the initial synaptic firing.

Well this is a bit of an elitist mindset.

Honestly, there's room for both types of roleplaying to exist. For some people, they may indeed be more interested in collaborative writing and storytelling where they're focusing on making their rp the best story and creative writing they can be. And for some people, they may just be interested in the escapism that comes with roleplaying a character in a setting as if it was a tabletop game or rpg and having fun seeing what comes of the rp from that.

Both are perfectly fine.

As Innue said, I can't see a single player as someone who deserves to be blamed for killing a roleplay through bad writing. If such an issue was to crop up where the majority of players or its GM felt that a player was not contributing enough to the rp in the way that they'd like, or in a way that is not what the GM intended, then it's up to the GM to resolve that issue (politely, of course). And that resolution comes through communication and discussion, where 'offending' players could then grow to understand the issues and learn what is neccessary for the GM's intentions in order to fit in and prosper within the rp, or if perhaps need be, amicably leave if there's that much of a clash of interest between players. If an rp was to fall and die because of a single player then the GM is simply not doing their job correctly at all.

I feel the need to also point out that I've read through a few of your posts, especially since you seem to span multiple realms (Free to High Casual). How are some of your posts in free classified as adhering to the quality you want others to abide by - else get blamed for killing the roleplay? I would like to point out that while there is nothing wrong with those posts, and that it is an extremely valid way to roleplay, but they do not align with my expectations after your rant.

At a certain level, writing is subjective in terms of quality. If someone is not participating in a manner that the thread finds productive, there are ways to deal with it.

I would challenge you to find me an example where writing quality of a singular individual on a thread is the reason it failed.

Someone said Elitism, and that's like casting a ritual spell for me.

Regardless, they're perfectly right. I can use an analogy from League of Legends. You have, in general, two types of players. He who plays to have fun, ie an individual that becomes part of an thoroughly enjoys the community and game he is part of with minimal questioning. Then, he who plays to win, ie an individual that has a disdain for anyone that hinders victory (a large majority of the community) and often forces the "meta" and "best playstyles" onto others to ensure victory. Of course, a game like League has a clear win-loss condition, but the mindset still applies.

What I will do is say I understand your plight. In high-tier AU's, it pains me to see bland characters ripped straight from the canon or simply anything that feels like the writer just forced it into the roleplay to be part of it.From genre to genre, I sometimes PREFER to see that bland character. Fuck yeah, give me the stark, faithful Paladin every time if its played right. Is this scifi? IS THAT A SPACE MARINE? IS HE WROTE LIKE SOME LONESOME SPACE COWBOY WITH NO REASON TO LIVE, JUST WIELDING A BIG GUN AND TAKING ORDERS? There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing is really original, anyway. Anyone whom believes originality itself holds any real merit is just looked for a reason to feel better; I often prefer allusions, references, etc. solely because that's my taste, but that doesn't mean I can't do either.

Then, let's look at creativity. This is where we blur my line. I actually do hate it when creativity is lacking, but that's because you can be creative with even dull aspects of a character and give them unique features. You don't have to stand out. You don't have to be individualistic in the most outlandish way possible. You just need to have a story, follow a pattern and fit into a concept. If you're a niche character, fine. If you're that Paladin, fine. But have a story to it. If you're that Space Marine, make yourself the most cliche as fuck sob story about your dead wife and lost kid and run with that shit. Make it work. I will say that if characters are just going paragraph-to-paragraph doing nothing, yeah, that's dull.

And what is mediocre writing to you? Read some of the greatest classics - ever. If you took excerpts from your favorite book, it might seem like mediocre writing. It's all about context. How do you determine skill? Integration of literary techniques into plot and character based narrative using a third person perspective of an ascribed character made for the setting? Is that skill? Do you have to write in poetic verse every single post? Do you need flowery fluff, awesome alliteration and a back and forth flow that make each of your grammatically perfect sentences have an ebb and flow as natural as the Ocean tide? Is that what you're after? Do we need to revise and re-structure each post we make after making absolutely perfect word choice? If we do...

That shit gets old. Doesn't matter how good you are, writing like that is exhausting and its a great way to deter new roleplayers, making reading a bigger chore (as it tends to lengthen posts) and although yes it does make reading more fun if you do it every single post it takes away from the emphasis it can bring to more important posts.

I believe that role plays should be held with high respect and regard as a form of literary medium, rather than a generic tool to be entertained with.

If that is what you believe, you need to observe and reassess what roleplays are and why they retain popularity. I am probably considered one of the biggest elitists and self-proclaimed (watch that wording there) advocates to educate as well as increase the overall skill of the roleplaying masses, but I will never outright say the only mechanic and point of roleplay or collaborative storytelling is to act as a literary medium. If that is seriously how you feel, you are a niche writer. You can have whatever opinion and outlook you want, but you'll be wrong in what function roleplay performs. I can get pissed and yell at my allies in a ranked game all day, it won't get me a victory, it won't fix my score and even if it's their fault, it won't result in improving the community or the game. Even with tutors and mentors, that takes time, practice and patience.

I, personally, question the validity of a point regarding an "ambitious original RP with new and inspiring premise," of someone whose current RP is named "Hogwarts: Legacy of Lord Voldemort".

But that's just me. #Elitist

Tuuj, buddy, you could have totally used the Kermit Meme there.

#Que Brovo telling OP how an RP is only ever dead if you yourself let it die.

Prince covered most stuff that needs to be said already mind you.
But I do feel the need to highlight all art forms have their 'for fun' and their 'creative masterpieces'.

I mean you got shoot em up movie's like Transformers, funny ones like Hot Fuzz, masterpieces like Lord of the Rings and Planet of the Apes.
TV Shows offer's fun shows like Spaced or Doctor Who, Action ones like Naruto, and serious ones like Clannad, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad.
Books you got borderline snuff/porn like 50 shades of grey and Twilight, actions books like Zombie Storm Troopers, and then acclaimed ones like 1812 (which I still need to read at some point in my life).

Essentially, even if art form has very serious and creative pieces in it that is not all the artform is. That is not all it is supposed to be, it is impossible to expect it to be that way.

Innue said Too often I see people jump in and rush their 'original concept' and that is what kills it.

I have seen this. Played in an RP in which I and another player really jelled, putting in the time and energy to develop our characters and our personal interactions before the "main" action. However, the "GM" appeared to get very impatient with the "delay"... he stopped posting, just as our characters were returning from their shopping trip. Just before all our characters would finally be together. In his own posts (few as they were), he seemed quite eager to simply get going with what he wanted, to push things along. Rather than develop any character interactions. Rather than building a good story. Of course, without his input, without even an OOC response to our "Hey, where are you?"... well, Sudden Death.

So, it's not always other players ruining the RP. Sometimes, it's the very person who started the RP who kills it, even when the other players are kicking out good (great) material. And they aren't.

I can kind of relate to that GM. I know what it feels like to be really excited for a big event coming up in an RP and just wanting to get to it. That wait can be hard, but by god is it worth it if you can pull it off.

However, I am going to have to pull a Brovo here and say "The RP didn't die cause the DM left. It died because once he left and you guys as players didn't pick it up and keep moving". I mean, I've been in several RP's that died after the GM vanished. I'm guilty of this too, I know how tricky it can be to keep it going. But I've also been in roleplay communities that were founded as a result of ditching a bad GM/Leadership and starting new, it is entirely possible for a RP to get even better after losing their DM.

Well, perhaps we could have kept it going, but, given the GM was owner/captain of "our" ship, it meant one third of the RP ceased to exist. Perhaps we could have salvaged something, but it seemed better just to move on. Sometimes, that's just the way to go. But point taken.

I completely understand what Malikoy is talking about and agree 100%.

Innue said
I question if a singular person can really be blamed for writing poorly and killing the roleplay.I think a lot of getting off the ground is trying to balance player expectations from the interest check with the actual play in the in character. It isn't likely 'subpar' writing killing it, but the expectation not meeting up with the play.I also see that a lot of 'unique concepts' aren't formed well enough before they start and that causes a lot of issues with them. Too often I see people jump in and rush their 'original concept' and that is what kills it. Ideas often need an extra amount of time to flesh out than people give them to really make them as compelling as the initial synaptic firing.

I didn't really mean to put the blame of an RP's death on the poor writing of a single player/writer. If my post sounded that way, I am sorry, but that is not what I meant. A player or two, in general enough players with bad writing to ruin an RP (Bad whether on the errors in their writing, or simply ruining the story flaw or consistency.)

Innue said
I feel the need to also point out that I've read through a few of your posts, especially since you seem to span multiple realms (Free to High Casual). How are some of your posts in free classified as adhering to the quality you want others to abide by - else get blamed for killing the roleplay? I would like to point out that while there is nothing wrong with those posts, and that it is an extremely valid way to roleplay, but they do not align with my expectations after your rant. At a certain level, writing is subjective in terms of quality. If someone is not participating in a manner that the thread finds productive, there are ways to deal with it. I would challenge you to find me an example where writing quality of a singular individual on a thread is the reason it failed.

Again I didn't really mean to emphasize the point that ONE player can affect the life of an RP, I'm saying in general. Also I never belittled other forms of RP like free, say, so my participation in Free RP's doesn't contradict anything. I simply join those for entertainment purposes, and change of pace. Again I point I didn't rule out that RPs should be for entertainment, I just said they should be more literary and creative than a half developed hobby, that sounded elitist again, crap.

@Pachamac

Yes it did sound like an elitist post, but I can assure it wasn't. I'm not saying RP as a form of entertainment is bad or negative, I actually roleplay in some free RP's as sort of escapism from the much serious and well written casual or high casual RPs. I don't consider myself an elitist in this matter, I don't even consider myself that good a writer anyway, don't take it as some cocky rant. It wasn't. (If it sounded that way, again, sorry, lack of proper emoticons whatever.)

@Prince You made some valid points there, and I did have a not so right an opinion. I guess I wasn't thinking much when I ranted it out. It is indeed foolish to consider RP a merely serious literary medium and not a form of entertainment. Should have made my rant better written to express my actual opinions. I just wanted to complain about careless uninspiring writings, which I dubbed mediocre. Again to prove I'm not really an elitist, I don't really see myself as that good a writer, I'm just aware of what is good and what is not, at least to some agreeable extent. Shortly put, you were somewhat right in proving my somewhat false opinions, but I still care most about better writing in RPs.

Tuujaimaa said
I, personally, question the validity of a point regarding an "ambitious original RP with new and inspiring premise," of someone whose current RP is named "Hogwarts: Legacy of Lord Voldemort".But that's just me. #Elitist

Ops. Though I'd prefer if the focus of the discussion was more on the subject than actually finding ways to chop me in ten different ways lol. I feel like posting a topic here and ranting out loud is like putting yourself on the chopping block. Also just because I appreciate and call for original inspiring RPs, doesn't forbid me from making or participating in fandom RPs. It doesn't contradict my opinions if I made a Fandom RP. I dunno, I am anything but an elitist.

It has nothing with you posting a topic that got you put on a proverbial chopping block, but with how you went about crafting it.

I'm trying to craft a bridge here between what you are actually wanting and the current status of what you are doing. I've read through some of your posts on a number of your threads (as I felt how you went about your OP merited it). I stand by my assessment that based on your original post), I don't see how your own posts succeed above and beyond what you are actually complaining about.

The beautiful thing is you can generally choose who you interact with on these forums. If you are not liking the quality of the writing you are participating, you can find other people to participate with on other threads who do create the experience what you want.

Again, quality is subjective.

The hypocrisy is strong with this one.

@Innue I don't get how the quality of my posts (which you make it sound bad) forbids me from starting a thread where I complain about less inspiring writings. I don't see how I don't get the right to ask and call for something bigger and better, even if that was better than what I deliver.

According to your logic, I'd have to be a fisherman to criticize fishing. And like I said, I never claimed I was an elite writer.

@Magnum Hypocrisy is a strong word, so unless you really know whether I am being a hypocrite or you are misjudging, abstain from using such words. Seriously, that's childish.

You're claiming others should post in higher quality (a subjective term) and then fully admit you're guilty of the same in free but it doesn't count apparently cause that's just for fun. Even though you're entire complaint is that people RP just for fun and not for artistic reasons.

So yea, you're being a hypocrite.

Malikoy said
@Innue I don't get how the quality of my posts (which you make it sound bad) forbids me from starting a thread where I complain about less inspiring writings. I don't see how I don't get the right to ask and call for something bigger and better, even if that was better than what I deliver. According to your logic, I'd have to be a fisherman to criticize fishing. And like I said, I never claimed I was an elite writer.@Magnum Hypocrisy is a strong word, so unless you really know whether I am being a hypocrite or you are misjudging, abstain from using such words. Seriously, that's childish.

That is an absolutely horrid analogy. It'd be more akin to complaining that you don't like ice cream, but you not only keep going up and getting ice cream from the buffet, but you make your own, and then complain about how much you don't like ice cream (even though you are consuming it and making your own). And also, throwing in complaining that other people shouldn't be eating it and making it either

Again, the quality if your posts is irrelevant to me. I don't see them as bad. They are posts. But, I also do not see how they achieve anything beyond the very thing you are complaining about. Since I cannot find the thread in question for a specific quote, I would just suggest that you take time to go back and reread your own posts. I remember particular posts on a zombie thread that don't seem congruent with your demands on this thread.

You cannot use the defense of 'it was just me having fun in free'. Other people, who are likely the people who aren't inspiring to you, are just trying to have fun. They have every right to do so if they are within the bounds of the RPG rules. No player has the right to dictate how they have their fun within these rules. If you want to set standards, GM. If you don't like the experiences you are having with certain players, play with others. You have the tools at your disposal to have your fun.

@Magnum If you are so hell-bent on calling me a hypocrite then go ahead, you already did twice. It doesn't matter, because I am pretty sure I'm not a hypocrite, you might need to find a more accurate word perhaps? That's your problem.

I did claim, yearned more than claimed, that people should post in higher quality, mind you it is irrelevant to post length. A single line can be of higher quality than a carelessly written paragraph, like this very post of yours. (Higher quality is in fact subjective, but to some extent the majority of an audience can agree on what is high quality and what is a series of junk in form of misspelled words, and careless grammar errors (I.e you're instead of your) )

Also Posting in free is for fun and a sort of escape from more serious levels where better effort is put in the department of creativity, BUT still said posts in free should still be of higher quality and I strive to deliver that even though some, admittedly, aren't on the par of what I am yearning for.

And no, my entire rant is not about just the fact, as you claim, that I despise or complain about people role playing JUST for fun. I acknowledge that people RP to have fun, and I respect them. I only called that MORE role players should write "artistically".

If I am a hypocrite then it implies that I dissed non-serious or casually rp'ing folks, then posted like them anyway. That accusation is false and only shows you misjudged me based on your perception that I contradicted myself. I respect all forms of RP and all role players, you included. So I'd abstain from labeling you with a single word, will keep it to myself. Avoid drama and keep this a healthy discussion instead of starting unnecessary flaming with a person I don't really know.

@Innue Honestly with all due respect, your analogy is a load of crap. It only tries to say that I am complaining about the art of Role Playing itself, and not the quality of writing. So I still think my simple analogy was on point and quite accurate, even if less blunt and colorful.

I don't really see my posts as grand, but I am confident enough they are not trash, or mediocre even, I can give you the input of numerous others to judge my writings. Like said it is subjective, so your own liking of my posts are your own set of judgment and criticism. And the zombie RP is called 'The Walking Dead: The ties that bind', and I am very aware that my posts in that particular RP are of high quality because I actually admire the subject.

I don't know what you consider high quality and inspiring, big and eloquent but empty words? Long paragraphs of fillers? Read my first three posts on that zombie thread then come back here and you may judge and criticize.

You are saying what you said in the third paragraph in a way that implies I disrespect 'less inspiring rp'ers'. I respect all kinds of people here, again, I only ASK for better writings, I don't abhor or bluntly disrespect those that write for fun.