Yeah.. In the UK you go to a doctor, for free and explain your problem. Doctor then sends you to another doctor. Some doctors later you're diagnosed. They then provide you with options. Whether it's medication of therapy, you're treat like a human being.

<Snipped quote by HeySeuss> Think of two facts in history, fact one, in America homosexuality was classified up to 1972 as a mental illness. Second fact, sodomy laws have been used during the time homosexuality was classified as a mental illness. True, sodomy typically includes anal sex, oral sex and bestiality: in practice sodomy laws were used on the homosexual community when practicing adults of the opposite sex we more or less left alone. So, if you and your partner were the same sex, more so if they were male: discovered practice of male homosexuality proved their mental illness and their criminal behavior at the same time.

Which is, in two words, fucked up. But I've been saying for a while that mental illness should be treated separately from the prison system even if a mentally ill person committed a crime. But we have for profit prisons that kick back to judges and cops alike, so I suppose I'm overruled by those in authoritah.

Which is, in two words, fucked up. But I've been saying for a while that mental illness should be treated separately from the prison system even if a mentally ill person committed a crime. But we have for profit prisons that kick back to judges and cops alike, so I suppose I'm overruled by those in authoritah.

Not going to say that everyone that has mental illness should never go to prison. My point is, just because we have more of the use of medication we need to close down long term state hospitals. We just transferred the mentality ill from state hospitals into the state and federal prisons. It is not really the error of the counts, it is in the error of religion. Think of yourself as a fundamental Christian, and you also do not believe in evolution, and you believe in Gad made Adam and Eve. If you do believe that way, then you cannot believe that any type of mental illness can be pass down from parent to offspring in their DNA. So, mental illness is a choice. If you want a same sex lifestyle, that is a choice. Reason being, if you do not believe in evolutionary biology, then Adam before Eve had all the biological problems of mankind. And if God created man in his own image, and that image of man was Adam. Then God shares all the forums of negative evolutionary biology within himself. Therefore, God is bisexual, heterosexual and homosexual within himself. And that is something that Christians will not accept if you use their logic from above. If there is evolutionary biology, then over time different genic diversity happens over repeated generations. If that is a fact, then it questions everyone having original sin, as diversity in the genic pool of our DNA could have altered some still having original sin and others without. Since original sin is a matter of faith then a genic question, it is something that cannot be found in hard science. And Christianity without original sin being universal, is a religion that will collapse within generations. If you can say homosexual lifestyle, is part of the persons DNA: then you have to also question original sin still being universal.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be sentenced and held in treatment facilities if convicted, including and up to life without parole, just that they shouldn't be put in prison because our prison system is so tone deaf to the needs of the mentally ill; they don't treat them, and then they stick them in solitary and otherwise abuse them when they act up. There's been a number of stories regarding the brutality of US prisons to the mentally ill, such as an ASD sufferer doing years of solitary confinement in Virginia, or the debacle over the extradition of Gary McKinnon, which the UK Home Office called off when the details of US prisons hit the British press, as well as the medical opinion that he'd probably kill himself once in. I suppose I'm saying our prison system needs reforming anyway, but taking the mentally ill out of the current system is a damned fine start.

I'm now beginning to think you have no idea what you're talking about.. Not you, Seuess

I'm now beginning to think you have no idea what you're talking about.. Not you, Seuess

I got the point she was trying to make. Luckily A) Jewish with an emphasis on the 'ish' and B) I don't bother to even take religious beliefs that can't accommodate the scientific method as well as its observations seriously. I get what she means by that thinking of mental illness as a 'choice' people can 'shake off' but it's like people that think the world is 6000 years old -- fuck 'em and their feelings. ;) But I'm not singling out Christianity on that one. Judaism has its fruitcakes, Islam obviously does and just because I haven't encountered any Buddhist nutballs doesn't mean they aren't out there... Same response to all of them; we shouldn't be making policy to cater to myopic and increasingly unsupported belief. And the US Justice system needs a revamping while we're there.

It's not the religion thing that bothers me. It's the fact that this person is ignoring how much help there is available outside of a state prison. Mental Illness isn't like it was 100 years ago. It's understood now. All you have to do if find a doctor and ask for help. It's not hard.

It's not the religion thing that bothers me. It's the fact that this person is ignoring how much help there is available outside of a state prison. Mental Illness isn't like it was 100 years ago. It's understood now. All you have to do if find a doctor and ask for help. It's not hard.

Let me put it this way; there's still a lot of stigma for it. And finding a doctor is just about the first step and for people with really serious issues, it's a lifelong struggle to cope. How do I know? Because I have an IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease; Crohn's and Colitis), it's a physical problem and a chronic condition but I have to do a bunch of shit to keep it from overcoming me. If untreated and left unchecked, my immune system shuts down my digestive system. Not everyone is as lucky for a variety of reasons, such as the medication being very expensive and not widely approved for everyone. Some people can't keep it under control and live a ghoulish existence of constant pain and incontinence, and because the symptoms appear in the toilet bowl and are otherwise internal, it can seem like 'just bitching' to an outsider. And then that outsider googles it and sees "oh, it's stress related" (which is essentially not really the case-- IBS more so than IBD; but the two get confused) so clearly a person can control it...oh yes, I've see the stories on support forums, when I was hanging out there. Because people didn't understand how it worked, or the symptoms, and didn't see evidence, they blew it off. I learned a good lesson from that -- the last time someone wanted to question the reality of my illness, I took a picture of blood and poop in the bowl and sent it to the motherfucker on facebook. Argument won. I still have, five years later, a picture of that bloody poop just in case I ever get another motherfucker like that again. (I'd update, but I've been in remission a long time.) Too bad people with mental illness can't take a picture of their symptoms. It gets mistaken for a drug addict or an alcoholic (a conversation about drug/alcohol abuse among the mentally ill can wait for another day) or something else. It'd make life easier. So with people suffering from a mental illness, I try to keep the bloody poop in mind. It's my metaphor for all the shit I don't understand because I'm not there and it's the reason I try to find as much solidarity as I can with the mentally ill.

Been silently following this thread for some time. At first, I wasn't sure what to think of it, but it led me to two thoughts. One, it sucks knowing that other people have struggled as well, because I seriously know the pain. And two, it may be the cynicism speaking, but I'm a bit glad that I'm not alone in this world. I just turned seventeen about two weeks ago and I can gladly say that society doesn't want to help you as much as it wants to pity you. There is a lot of tactics to dealing with different illnesses, but it really isn't as cut and clear than what Dookie is trying to get across here (or at least how I read it, sorry if I read it wrong, still waking up here). There is more to recovery than just shoving someone into an asylum, therapy or encouraging them to see a psychiatrist. I know you should never use yourself in a debate, but I'm going to speak from personal experience here. I'm a victim of heavy child abuse from an early age (around four or five) and because of it, have developed anxiety, hyperviligiance and what may be PTSD (aren't sure about this one entirely, I just bear some of the symptoms as professionally diagnosed). I've been therapy my entire life and ironically, it's indirect result as to what messed it up. In order to see my psychologist every week, I had to see a psychiatrist once a month. I didn't particularly like this psychiatrist since she had it in her mind that I was going to kill myself every day of the week and eventually, diagnosed me to a bunch of medication that never helped and ironically, made it worse (Zoloft, Prozac, etc, etc). As Seuss said, there is a lot of stigma for it as well: as I said earlier, society wants to pity you, not entirely help you. If I tell someone what happened to me, they all reaction differently, but it mostly leads to the same path: they never look at me the same way again. There's a lot of pressure for finding a psychiatrist and doctor, since someone who may be struggling from heavy depression or bipolarism, may want to be normal or want acceptance without being pressured into something. And at the end of the day, people will always react one of two ways: 1.) They'll think you're b*tching or full of it. 2.) They'll just say "I'm sorry, is there anything I can do to help?" Though it looks good on paper for sure, the second one isn't always the best answer. People who say that don't always necessarily understand and from experience, tend to overstep personal boundaries or take advantage of whatever pain you may be going through. In short, I have yet to see society truly understand without having to sit through the same thing themselves. And honestly, speaking from someone who is bothered by it, I can honestly say I'd really rather they didn't. //Sorry if that was really off-topic or didn't make any sense or riddled with spelling errors, just woke up, but saw the mini-debate and thought I'd join in.

At first, I wasn't sure what to think of it, but it led me to two thoughts. One, it sucks knowing that other people have struggled as well, because I seriously know the pain. And two, it may be the cynicism speaking, but I'm a bit glad that I'm not alone in this world.

I don't think it's cynical. I think it's something to try and keep in mind if you can. I realize it's often hard for someone to reassure themselves within their own mind -- if it were that easy, psychotherapists would be rendered unnecessary -- but for every one person speaking up, there's a bunch more that are scared of the judgment and reaction they get from others. But that's sort of the point -- people are often ships passing in the night. We can't know all of each other's struggles entirely, but usually we can grasp enough of the essentials to relate if we are inclined to. Of course, it's a good idea to remember this -- the stigma of mental illness is not how different people with mental illnesses are. It's how much of ourselves we see in people with mental illness and how we recoil from the thought of being in that situation ourselves. I'm not trying to defend something that has turned into a societal practice of treating entire groups of people terribly, but the response isn't necessarily about you, it's about their own bullshit.

I don't think it's cynical. I think it's something to try and keep in mind if you can. I realize it's often hard for someone to reassure themselves within their own mind -- if it were that easy, psychotherapists would be rendered unnecessary -- but for every one person speaking up, there's a bunch more that are scared of the judgment and reaction they get from others. But that's sort of the point -- people are often ships passing in the night. We can't know all of each other's struggles entirely, but usually we can grasp enough of the essentials to relate if we are inclined to. Of course, it's a good idea to remember this -- the stigma of mental illness is not how different people with mental illnesses are. It's how much of ourselves we see in people with mental illness and how we recoil from the thought of being in that situation ourselves. I'm not trying to defend something that has turned into a societal practice of treating entire groups of people terribly, but the response isn't necessarily about you, it's about their own bullshit.

Apologies, but I don't really get what you're saying. I'm probably still be tired/waking up and I apologize for that, but I think the bottomline gist of it is that it isn't a cynical mindset, but there's no way we can truly feel another's pain, right?

<Snipped quote by HeySeuss> Apologies, but I don't really get what you're saying. I'm probably still be tired/waking up and I apologize for that, but I think the bottomline gist of it is that it isn't a cynical mindset, but there's no way we can truly feel another's pain, right?

More like that people try to avoid understanding each other because it requires them to admit things they're afraid to admit, like the randomness of genetics and 'but for the grace of God there go I.' A lot of people like to reassure themselves that they're normal, society prizes conformity and normalcy, and subconsciously shunning the mentally ill is part of that reassurance for a lot of them. As you no doubt know, there's a lot of shit in the subconscious, and that doesn't merely apply to people with a mental illness. (or a physical one, though people tend to be less able to bullshit their way past debilitating physical symptoms so they are forced to sympathize in a genuine fashion.) I'm not saying a perfect understanding is possible, I'm saying that human beings can generally do a lot better. ;)

<Snipped quote by Cynder> More like that people try to avoid understanding each other because it requires them to admit things they're afraid to admit, like the randomness of genetics and 'but for the grace of God there go I.' A lot of people like to reassure themselves that they're normal, society prizes conformity and normalcy, and subconsciously shunning the mentally ill is part of that reassurance for a lot of them. As you no doubt know, there's a lot of shit in the subconscious, and that doesn't merely apply to people with a mental illness. (or a physical one, though people tend to be less able to bullshit their way past debilitating physical symptoms so they are forced to sympathize in a genuine fashion.) I'm not saying a perfect understanding is possible, I'm saying that human beings can generally do a lot better. ;)

Oooh, alright, makes much more sense, thank you for clarifying. And I entirely agree with what you're saying. Yeesh, it's almost terrifying how heartless modern day society can be at times.

It saddens me, in this day and age, that there is really still such a stigma against mental illness. Not just a stigma, but a lack of understanding even some of the 'simplest' forms of mental illness, like depression. As someone who suffers from depression and anxiety and has to fight daily to live a productive life, it sometimes makes me feel worthless. I've had people say to me that I just needed to think positively, and my depression would go away. If it was that easy, don't you think I'd be better by now? I had more that I planned to say, but another lovely side effect of depression is my memory is shit. Ah well.

It saddens me, in this day and age, that there is really still such a stigma against mental illness. Not just a stigma, but a lack of understanding even some of the 'simplest' forms of mental illness, like depression. As someone who suffers from depression and anxiety and has to fight daily to live a productive life, it sometimes makes me feel worthless. I've had people say to me that I just needed to think positively, and my depression would go away. If it was that easy, don't you think I'd be better by now? I had more that I planned to say, but another lovely side effect of depression is my memory is shit. Ah well.

I've realized a long time ago that most people tend to stick to what they know and only learn from what they experience. That's why you hear ignorant comments about mental illness from people who have never had even an hour of psych coursework in their life and they think they're professors or something. They don't respect what they don't understand, and that includes the complexity of mental illness, which is a phenomenon studied by many different professionals that can spend more than a decade in learning before they start treating people with these problems. The stupid people don't make anything easier, but I think people who, either by dint of personal experience and/or imagination, can relate to your struggles and empathize with you. You aren't worthless, and you're stronger than those fuckers because you gotta fight harder than they do. Don't view yourself through their lens; don't look to please them. Remember who counts -- those who you decide count, your loved ones. The world is a nasty place to those who are not up to the lofty standards of 'normalcy' that humanity imposes and reinforces, even though many fall short of that ideal behind closed doors. I hope you keep up the fight.

diagnosed me to a bunch of medication that never helped and ironically, made it worse (Zoloft, Prozac, etc, etc).

One of the reasons I don't use pharmaceuticals unless it is life or death. Haven't used them since I was prescribed a drug that had a side effect of sudden death without warning.

One of the reasons I don't use pharmaceuticals unless it is life or death. Haven't used them since I was prescribed a drug that had a side effect of sudden death without warning.

Damn. That's the harshest thing I've ever heard. How is that even legal?

<Snipped quote by Revans Exile>

Damn. That's the harshest thing I've ever heard. How is that even legal?

Beats the hell out of me. I prefer to either suffer through or go hollistic.

Beats the hell out of me. I prefer to either suffer through or go hollistic.

I switched over to aromatherapy for the most part. I occasionally use medications such as melatonin and PMs, but that is getting pretty rare. I plan to not go back to my psychiatrist, since I'm nervous what might happen with any new medications and I seriously do not want addiction.

But yeah, that's awful. A medication that can cause sudden death without any warning? That's extremely harsh. >.>