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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

Far from it. Stopping time is very difficult to explain the how. At the tier you encounter it, as I said, you have methods of countering it. However, at the tier you can start encountering 'speedsters' you run into more problems. It is a lot easier to explain super speed to the degree that it is just as indefensible. There is no 'small chance' if your opponent has no time to react - which super speed can accomplish.


That's usually just people not thinking through their characters particularly well. Even my relatively low tier characters have reaction speeds many times faster than a human, effectively reducing the 'max speed' of things around them by the same margin. If you forget to do that then you deserve to get killed by a speedster.

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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Unless you can /explain/ how you're doing what you're doing within the logical constraints of the physics applied to the given universe you're in, you can't do it.

That is the rule that we tend to follow, and it is the rule that makes the most sense.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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<Snipped quote by Innue>

That's usually just people not thinking through their characters particularly well. Even my relatively low tier characters have reaction speeds many times faster than a human, effectively reducing the 'max speed' of things around them by the same margin. If you forget to do that then you deserve to get killed by a speedster.


I will happily fight your character that has a reaction speed of one Planck second - the smallest unit of time possible - with a character that can move at a proportional speed, and I guarantee that you will be dead.

Your ability to perceive my attacking you at that speed is completely irrelevant if your body is not fast enough to use the information. You may have a hundred thousand effective years with your mega reactions, but that does not allow your body to react. It will be a very, very long wait before you die.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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MelonHead The Fighting Fruit

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Unless you can /explain/ how you're doing what you're doing within the logical constraints of the physics applied to the given universe you're in, you can't do it.

That is the rule that we tend to follow, and it is the rule that makes the most sense.


I need to go re-write a few of my characters quick, could you explain how you convert mana/energy into magical spells for me? Because I must have missed my class on magic and the supernatural.

I'm going to go do something else now, because this discussion is becoming permeated by the nonsensical.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

Far from it. Stopping time is very difficult to explain the how. At the tier you encounter it, as I said, you have methods of countering it. However, at the tier you can start encountering 'speedsters' you run into more problems. It is a lot easier to explain super speed to the degree that it is just as indefensible. There is no 'small chance' if your opponent has no time to react - which super speed can accomplish.


Which is exactly my point. Your character has the same chance to counter super-speed as they do time slowing. The end result of both powers is the same: An opponent who appears to move much, much faster than you do (unless you're also a speedster/time manipulator). In the end, it doesn't really matter how that effect is achieved (unless your character has an ability that makes them difficult to manipulate with other superpowers/magic, in which case the time warper is screwed).
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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Going off of what Tuuj said...

In order to actually react reasonably to super speed, you need to have the speed to match the motions of what they are doing. Otherwise, as he said, it is entirely irrelevant. Not only that, the massive amount of kinetic force that is being generated would easily kill most characters.

Teleportation that is correctly applied is actually far, far less problematic than super speed.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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<Snipped quote by Tuujaimaa>

I need to go re-write a few of my characters quick, could you explain how you convert mana/energy into magical spells for me? Because I must have missed my class on magic and the supernatural.

I'm going to go do something else now, because this discussion is becoming permeated by the nonsensical.


In my experience, leaving when you encounter resistance is the sign of a poor debater and a poor combatant.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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<Snipped quote by Tuujaimaa>

I need to go re-write a few of my characters quick, could you explain how you convert mana/energy into magical spells for me? Because I must have missed my class on magic and the supernatural.

I'm going to go do something else now, because this discussion is becoming permeated by the nonsensical.


Being dismissive of it doesn't make the points incorrect.

Energy is sort of everywhere. That is kind of one of the building blocks of our universe. Energy is manipulated into other forms everyday, this is not much of a leap of faith. You are merely incorporating the ability for people to use their will to do this without outside implements.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
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I think Innue is right. If I accept a fight against a time manipulator I am using my character that has powers/abilites to deal with it. The issue is if you accept that type of fight you are entering it with your eyes open. Don't complain later. Remember you are responsible for accepting and stipulating the parameters of your fight.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ShidenBlades
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Since such powers are permitted than I am inclined to agree with what Skall and Innue have stated.

Don't like it, then don't fight them.

The people that make characters with such power will know that they may not have many contenders because no one wants to deal with their abilities. It's a two way street.

The rest of us can just worry about our own characters and the fights that they are in.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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Basic magical theory is as follows:

Magic is the use of mana or other energies (as appropriate) to achieve lasting effects. This can be as simple as transforming mana, a highly malleable energy, into another kind of energy (e.g. Kinetic, Heat, Electrical) or as complex as creating portals between realms.

The inherent need to justify use of magic exists because "I say so because magic" doesn't mesh well with the inherent logic required of combat - strict adherence to time, to detail, and battle strategy are all essential for a good combatant, and each of these things requires use of logic in one form or another.

The need to justify is not, however, as deep as advanced physics. Even a rudimentary explanation to justify the mechanics of the spell on a very simple level are fine - and certain types of magic (e.g. Elemental magic) have inbuilt rules that allow them to be used without such justification (as such justifications are considered a priori).

If you use elemental magic on a highly complex level, you would be expected to justify the complexity as necessary, however.

Now, the justification becomes more important when you are using magic that is more complex than using the basic rules. As long as you have a mundane rationalisation for how the spell works, it should be fine. Certain actions are taken to be inherently known (e.g. Creating a portal), but will again require additional rationalisation based upon the complexity of the magic being used.

Provided that you think of magic as an advanced and highly malleable energy, this system is very easy to follow and makes a lot of sense. Justifying things as "because Magic" does not make a lot of sense and is inherently unsatisfying to deal with.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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That's why I have sources of magic, which honestly can't be justified themselves, but the users of said sources of magic have a justification in the source.

I'm not going to write up a new system of physics and logic just to have a character be able to shoot spaghetti from his hands, but I will go out of my way to give him a source of this spaghetti magic.

Yes. This is a real character I am speaking of, I have a character who uses pasta magic.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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You hardly need to write up a new system.

The creation of spaghetti would not in and of itself cause any real issues. It's the same very basic level as creation of elemental matter.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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LeeRoy, I used wool before for battle.

A lot of what Tuuj is saying comes into play in only a few instances. The first is when you are trying to justify the simplicity of something. The second is when it gets into the very, very advanced instances such as time manipulation of realm bending.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Also, update on the thing that I said like, a week ago.

My rework of my own mythos is like, 10% finished.
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

In my experience, leaving when you encounter resistance is the sign of a poor debater and a poor combatant.


Hilarious

Do you insult everyone who has something better to do than debate text combat on the internet?

;)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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Im not retarded, If someone has time stop abilites I'm not going to willingly fight them. However when that person enters a tournament that I also want to join it becomes a bit more of an issue.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Tuujaimaa
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<Snipped quote by Tuujaimaa>

Hilarious

Do you insult everyone who has something better to do than debate text combat on the internet?

;)


Yes. If you remove all but the first four words in that sentence it's still accurate. :D

However,

Walking away from a debate rather than actually countering the points is poor form. If you're on this thread it's a given that you care about combat at least a little. If you care about combat at least a little, then you should continue the debate regardless. :P

Still - if you have a preset view on combat that you aren't willing to change... Not much we can do about it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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Unless the tournament is god-level, nobody's going to have time-stop capability. If it is god-level, other characters are going to have the capability to counter it. You're never going to end up in a tournament where Captain America is pitted against Hunter Zolomon.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ShidenBlades
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'MERICA!!!
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