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Ireland's Same-Sex Marriage Referendum

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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Yep it's actually happening. I've been making sure everyone I know is going out to vote yes. I'm not gay myself but have plenty friends who are believe in trying to promote and foster equality despite how difficult that can often be. It's a fantastic step forward away from the dogmatic traditions the catholic church imposed in the country decades ago which we are still unfortunately living with.

However, there are people actively vying for a 'no' and I won't have any qualms about saying it's disgusting. Sure people are entitled to their opinions and a lot of the time these are based on what they are told time and time again and it is very difficult for these people to be told otherwise. However there are two key points to be made:

1. Your opinion should never get to detrimentally hurt another's life for no reason other than you disagree.
2. The 'no' campaign is fueling its fire with misinformation.



The referendum has nothing to do with children. Same sex couples can already adopt and surrogacy is legal. This referendum changes neither and bigots claiming it does to get bigger bigots to vote is horrifying. Not to mention the countless arguments against the 'nuclear' family being the be all and end all.

Gay, straight, religious or not your opinion is your own and you should not be allowed to use to prohibit others from the same rights you have.

/rant

Also if by chance any of you are also Irish get off yer arse and vote yes.
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by cider
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I'd argue it's up to the catholics to decide through the vote. I don't see how being Irish in general would make it one's business, much like it wouldn't be anyones business - gay or straight - to marry in someone's backyard just because the neighbours thought it was okay.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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I really don't understand your logic. You're now saying marriage is owned by the church which I couldn't disagree with more. It's not like they'll be marrying in the churches without permission, it'll be state ceremonies. It's every Irish persons' business, we're deciding if we want to allow our government to formally acknowledge gay marriages.

Many other countries have gay marriage as state ceremony. No country has catholic church approved gay marriage. That's not what we're seeking we seeking state marriage. Why don't we have that you ask? As our constitution was initially dictated by church influence.

I think you really misunderstood the idea.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Marriage is a legal situation. It effects a lot of things, from insurance to who is considered first of kin. If it were up to the Catholics to decide who is married, I would suspect that would nullify Protestant marriages. And if it were up to the Christians in general, that would nullify Jewish marriages. And if it were up to recognized religion as an entirety, that would nullify atheist marriage. Etcetera etcetera. What is at question here is how the state relates to people and how it sees their relationships. It also protects them from certain discrimination that could otherwise easily be levied at gay people. After all, it is much easier to protect a legally recognized relationship than it is a unrecognized one.

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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Marriage is a legal situation. It effects a lot of things, from insurance to who is considered first of kin. If it were up to the Catholics to decide who is married, I would suspect that would nullify Protestant marriages. And if it were up to the Christians in general, that would nullify Jewish marriages. And if it were up to recognized religion as an entirety, that would nullify atheist marriage. Etcetera etcetera. What is at question here is how the state relates to people and how it sees their relationships. It also protects them from certain discrimination that could otherwise easily be levied at gay people. After all, it is much easier to protect a legally recognized relationship than it is a unrecognized one.


<3
Hidden 10 yrs ago → 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Marriage is a legal situation. It effects


It's 'affects', with an 'a'. Opinion discarded.

@Darkmatter From a cursory glance at relevant polls, it seems like the vast majority (>75%) of Irishmen support same-sex marriage. Why is a referendum on the subject only happening now if the question is so wildly one-sided?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

It's 'affects', with an 'a'. Opinion discarded.

@Darkmatter From a cursory glance at relevant polls, it seems like the vast majority (>75%) of Irishmen support same-sex marriage. Why is a referendum on the subject only happening now if the question is so wildly one-sided?


Once again, in private it's easy to say we want it. Publically, cultural dogmas due to our religious heritage scares people and encourages homophobia. It's hard to explain without seeing it. Plenty of people who will vote yes will still use homophobic slurs on a daily basis as it's in our culture due to church influence and oppression. Like I said it's disgusting.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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<Snipped quote by The Nexerus>

Plenty of people who will vote yes will still use homophobic slurs on a daily basis


I know its hard to prove but do you have any evidence to support this? It doesnt make any logical sense why someone who supports the LBGT community would hse slurs against them

<Snipped quote by The Nexerus>

it's in our culture due to church influence and oppression

I can understand what you mean by church influence but what do you mean by oppression?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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My own friends will vote yes and still shout 'faggot' at each other over a few pints or a game. It's what we grew up With.

Seriously. Look into the Catholic Church in Ireland and you'll see what I mean.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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One example is all primary schools are owned by the church. Your child cannot get an education unless you either Baptise and confirm them or pay money and move to the only area in Country sith a private primary school.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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My own friends will vote yes and still shout 'faggot' at each other over a few pints or a game. It's what we grew up With.


Yes thats bad but your friends dont nescessarily represent the majority, can you really be sure the rest of the population is like that and its not just your hometown/area? Im not really expecting you to pull out statistics here but you should consider it

One example is all primary schools are owned by the church. Your child cannot get an education unless you either Baptise and confirm them or pay money and move to the only area in Country sith a private primary school.


That seems rather... Illegal...

I go to a catholic school myself and as a loudmouthed athiest i pay the same as everyone else, and they Havant even kicked me out, how kind of them.

But seriously you guys need to get some seperation of church and state ASAP
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Darkmatter
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<Snipped quote by Darkmatter>

Yes thats bad but your friends dont nescessarily represent the majority, can you really be sure the rest of the population is like that and its not just your hometown/area? Im not really expecting you to pull out statistics here but you should consider it

<Snipped quote by Darkmatter>

That seems rather... Illegal...

I go to a catholic school myself and as a loudmouthed athiest i pay the same as everyone else, and they Havant even kicked me out, how kind of them.

But seriously you guys need to get some seperation of church and state ASAP


I know for a fact it's the majority. Ireland is tiny, I know people from every county. It sounds illegal to you but it's how the country grew. Seriously, read up on the nation.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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<Snipped quote by Vortex>

I know for a fact it's the majority. Ireland is tiny, I know people from every county. It sounds illegal to you but it's how the country grew. Seriously, read up on the nation.


Out of curiosity is this British Ireland or Independent Ireland?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

It's 'affects', with an 'a'. Opinion discarded.


Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dead Girl
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It is about time they make it a requirement in that tiny island.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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Congratulations Ireland! You now have permission to suck some cock
1x Laugh Laugh
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Congratulations Ireland! You now have permission to suck some cock


If you like it then you now can put a ring on it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ActRaiserTheReturned
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I see the middle poster being the most logical out of all three. Even if the other two posters in the OP are illogical.
A little girl needs her mother, a little boy needs his mother, throughout their entire lives.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rare
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A little girl needs her mother, a little boy needs his mother, throughout their entire lives.


Tell that to all of the people with mothers or fathers that died when they were babies or small kids.
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