@Hael, can you talk to us about your military? I know, you haven't even wrote that part yet. That's why it's such a mystery! Today is the military roll. We can quiz for other topics later.
I've been working on it with Cyclone (our militaries are linked) and this is what I've got:
Alright, I haven't forgotten about The Sun Will Never Set. I'm writing a crappy post about the religious tension and Mulspan's return letter as we speak.
But I've been thinking about weaponry and I have some ideas:
From 1911 to the 1980's, one of the #1 standard pistols of the great U.S. of A was the Colt M1911. It's a good semi-auto, for the time. I don't know if you've noticed, Tin Man, but every single time I've mentioned a Kaliab using a pistol it has been the Colt M1911.
It would be the standard side-arm of KalMea.
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Next up is the one and only Shock Tank (name a work in progress, gimme a few months and I may come up with one). KalMea may be a very industrialized, modern nation, but it is not one to attempt marching in and slaying everybody one by one. The fighting style of KalMea is basically Blitzkrieg (that's German for lightning war). A quick definition of this war-tactic, in case you aren't familiar:
"A German term for 'lightning war,' blitzkrieg is a military tactic designed to create disorganization among enemy forces through the use of mobile forces and locally concentrated firepower. Its successful execution results in short military campaigns, which preserves human lives and limits the expenditure of artillery."
It's all about running in, shooting like nuts for five seconds, and running out. KalMea is a master of the hit-and-run; we won't stay to fight, but we will sucker punch you and get out before the crap hits the fan
As a result, the KalMean military will reflect that focus on speed. So, without further ado, I would like to propose a mega-super-fast Light Tank that can be manned by only one or two Kaliabis, and used to mow down any forces before retreating.
I propose a tank based off of the fastest WW2 tank in history: the Soviet BT-7, which had a top speed of 86 MPH. That seems a bit much for this RP, however, so I'll limit it's speed to 68 MPH.
All hail Mother Russia
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Alright, the morning has come and almost passed, so here are a few more of my death machines:
The MP40 was useful to Germans fighting in close corners and cities, street blocks, and the such. Areas where you're not going to be using something built for a distance, but you're not so close as you might be indoors. KalMea is likely to go for places of the such, and this gun is often considered to be one of the "great Submachine guns of the war". I might name it differently, but I'm likely to have some sort of gun strongly reminiscent of the German MP40.
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Also, KalMea may occasionally use some sort of light rifle. I'm thinking along the lines of the U.S. M1 Carbine, which was praised for it's lightness and ease-of-use but criticized for it's weaker fire-power.
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I have two more Tank ideas, one for anti-infantry and one for anti-tank.
The Anti-infantry tanks will resemble the German Panzer IV. It was a medium tank, so it will remain useful without (I hope) compromising the speed I'm looking for.
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The Tank Destroyer will only be used sparingly, when we don't have the element of surprise on our side and the enemy is superior vehicle-wise. Based off of the German light Tank Destroyer, Hetzer
@HaelWow, in many aspects your military doctrine is similar to mine. Including the Blitzkrieg idea. Granted, I expect my Blitzkrieg strategy to fail against Tin since they are the most apt comparison to the WW2 Soviets here. At least when it comes to this thing.
Anyways, I may be some help to develop your army. You can either add me to this discussion or continue on a different PM channel.
@HaelWow, in many aspects your military doctrine is similar to mine. Including the Blitzkrieg idea. Granted, I expect my Blitzkrieg strategy to fail against Tin since they are the most apt comparison to the WW2 Soviets here. At least when it comes to this thing.
Anyways, I may be some help to develop your army. You can either add me to this discussion or continue on a different PM channel.
@CycloneWatch out, we have an elf trying to sneak in on our Top Secret Military!
Actually, Tin man said he's going for blitzkrieg strategy as well. It seems to be popular for this RP. Kinda makes me wonder who will actually be trying to fight long-term battles :D
Well, I'm still busy so my interlude post should wait till late afternoon. But the stagnant air in the OOC is a bit worrying so let's change that!
@Cyclone Military Quiz Time! How many Tinite cavalry are needed to take a single VP-39 machinegun nest?
Let's make it a double quiz. How many Tinite cavalrymen can take down an Arqwyen IIC tank? (the one with the chaingun firing 33mm exploding shells)
I'm not singling you Cyclone. It was just the fact Tin was literally the first nation which came to mind. Of course anybody can feel free to ask quizzes from me in return.
Well theoretically just one could do it if they charged from behind with an anti-tank grenade launcher or something. If these are traditional cavalry going head on though, I lean towards 6-8. I think that'd be enough of a distraction for one traditional cavalryman to close in, jump on the tank...and plant a grenade on it? No, Tinites aren't that smart. They'd try to open the hatch and stab everybody inside.
*shrug*
What do you think? These are just my wild guesses.
@HaelTin fighting a Blitzkrieg? Wow, I've gotta see this.
The doctrine of Blitzkrieg gets confused a lot, especially considering it wasn't an official strategy or doctrine in the German army. They didn't train their officers some revolutionary new strategy and call it Blitzkrieg; the German army just made use of plenty of armor and they happened to be rather good at taking advantage of combined arms formations. It was foreign journalists that were terrified and put the "Blitzkrieg" label on it, and started talking as if this was some amazing innovation.
But anyways, when I say "Blitzkrieg" I just mean making good use of light vehicles to harass and have superior mobility, and heavy vehicles to break through weak points. Blitzkrieg is basically just an attempt to have superior maneuverability, which felt natural for Tin's Mongol-esque tactics. Sure, Tin will charge forward and fight offensive wars with huge numbers. That's part of their strategy too. But from their past as cavalry hordes, they recognize the massive advantage of speed. As the saying goes, a bunch of terrible soldiers exactly where you need them is better than the best soldiers in the world where they can't do anything.
@CycloneWatch out, we have an elf trying to sneak in on our Top Secret Military!
Actually, Tin man said he's going for blitzkrieg strategy as well. It seems to be popular for this RP. Kinda makes me wonder who will actually be trying to fight long-term battles :D
That reminds me. We ever gonna talk about the navy? IT'S BEEN DAYZ SINCE U SAID U WUD
Well theoretically just one could do it if they charged from behind with an anti-tank grenade launcher or something. If these are traditional cavalry going head on though, I lean towards 6-8. I think that'd be enough of a distraction for one traditional cavalryman to close in, jump on the tank...and plant a grenade on it? No, Tinites aren't that smart. They'd try to open the hatch and stab everybody inside.
*shrug*
What do you think? These are just my wild guesses.
Maybe if the tank crew are pacifists and also complete newbies. Even i wouldn't dare to make such optimistic estimates. Imagine a tank with the speed of 88-118km/h (depending on the type of terrain) that has automatic grenade launcher firing up to 10 of these rounds every second. funny because their originaly intended purpose was to be mobile light AA battery but due to the turret's poor visibility it can barely function in that role. In retrospect the 33mm shell which was made to finish off large airplanes in few shots and seriously damage enemy airships was found out to be incredibly powerful if used for fire support. As such the Arqwyen tanks are like a rolling rapid anti-infantry menace. They are also relatively good at blasting enemy fortifications. Their only downside is that with 360 shells the tank is pretty much like a rolling barrel of explosives. A lucky hit and the whole tank disappears in blazing glory. Maybe once they experience it a bit more frequently they'll introduce the C2 type tank with armored ammo compartments (at the expense of a bit less ammo) but until then...enjoy the fireworks.
Anyways, you need to get close and personal with the tank which can be only done if you surround it and have numbers in the great excess. I suppose several squadrons of cavalrymen would be needed along with a commander who isn't exactly an idiot. Though your chances improve massively if you arm your cavalrymen with light anti-tank rockets. Something like the Panzerfaust 30K. Size doesn't just make the weapon unwieldy but also imagine the backblast. It'd seriously harm the hind area of your horse. Albeit for caution I think a protective horse gear would be advised regardless.
With panzerfaust horsemen I'd imagine it'd be just the matter of maneuvering. The tank still twice as fast and horribly outranges you but at least you can take it down once you're within range. It goes without saying such exchange would be a damn fun experience.
<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>
The doctrine of Blitzkrieg gets confused a lot, especially considering it wasn't an official strategy or doctrine in the German army. They didn't train their officers some revolutionary new strategy and call it Blitzkrieg; the German army just made use of plenty of armor and they happened to be rather good at taking advantage of combined arms formations. It was foreign journalists that were terrified and put the "Blitzkrieg" label on it, and started talking as if this was some amazing innovation.
But anyways, when I say "Blitzkrieg" I just mean making good use of light vehicles to harass and have superior mobility, and heavy vehicles to break through weak points. Blitzkrieg is basically just an attempt to have superior maneuverability, which felt natural for Tin's Mongol-esque tactics. Sure, Tin will charge forward and fight offensive wars with huge numbers. That's part of their strategy too. But from their past as cavalry hordes, they recognize the massive advantage of speed. As the saying goes, a bunch of terrible soldiers exactly where you need them is better than the best soldiers in the world where they can't do anything.
Ah, I see. Well, while it's true that Blitzkrieg wasn't so much an "ace strategy" as often hailed as but I don't think your method would fit the criteria, either. Granted, I have yet to see your army in detail. But I have a feeling your strategy would be closer to what nomad nations did but now you combine it with semi-modern technology. As you said, Mongol-esque tactics.
Me on the other hand would focus on rapid and deep penetration to the enemy's lines to cripple the central command. Except your Tinite armies would lack such thing so...yeah, it won't be as effective as Yllendthyr would try to envision it.
Anyways, I may need to update my military profile again. I need to add some more vehicles and finally I should mention the other aircrafts. BTW, elves find flamethrowers too gruesome and barbaric for their tastes so they won't feature such abominations. Neither as vehicle nor the infantry-carried version. Incendiary bombs are banned for their military, too.
Tin has officers and such and central command. They actually have a lot of officers. Granted these are almost entirely nobles which means they might not be the best commanders, but a noble general is usually a better choice than some uneducated commoner. It's also still a meritocracy. Nobles don't just buy their rank like in the British empire.
When I elaborate on my military I'll let you decide if it's really Blitzkrieg. It might not be of the trus/conventional sort, but I felt that the word is a fairly good way of describing their mindset concerning tanks and such.
Tin has officers and such and central command. They actually have a lot of officers. Granted these are almost entirely nobles which means they might not be the best commanders, but a noble general is usually a better choice than some uneducated commoner. It's also still a meritocracy. Nobles don't just buy their rank like in the British empire.
When I elaborate on my military I'll let you decide if it's really Blitzkrieg. It might not be of the trus/conventional sort, but I felt that the word is a fairly good way of describing their mindset concerning tanks and such.
I meant government buildings, logistics bases , forward headquarters and such. Of course you have a working leadership and your soldiers can group up in camps. But that's not the point.
Anyways, during early WW2 the world had two prevailing standard doctrines. Light tanks that focus on cheapness, speed and range while sacrificing all else. And infantry tanks that were heavy, lumbering but because of this they can allow to mount more armor and firepower. Not many nations were making actual "fighting tanks" prior to WW2 and these became the mainstay type just a few years later.
So yeah, of course from the two styles the light tanks fit Tin the most. BTW, given the fact your future enemies have air superiority I would suggest scrapping the enclosed turret for AA mounts. This would give you a chance to suppress the enemy's air power while a well-designed open top offers decent protection for anything but what comes from directly overhead. I don't say make all your tanks open-topped AA, but having a considerable portion of them this way can give you an advantage. Sure, they are more risky than enclosed turrets and they are a horrible choice for urban warfare. But aside from that it may give you an edge to deal with the massive airborne offensive.
Tin and KalMea have a sort of supply truck/troop carrier that we were going to say was also designed to tow along those AA cannons. I might still keep the .88 inspired things, but anti-aircraft mounts on vehicles isn't a bad idea either.
But keep in mind that most people have airships rather than little planes. I'm thinking specialized units that shoot dumb rockets into the sky would be really helpful. A slow moving blimp-thing could be devastated by a few teams hiding under trees and shooting missiles up at its balloon.
Tin and KalMea have a sort of supply truck/troop carrier that we were going to say was also designed to tow along those AA cannons. I might still keep the .88 inspired things, but anti-aircraft mounts on vehicles isn't a bad idea either.
But keep in mind that most people have airships rather than little planes. I'm thinking specialized units that shoot dumb rockets into the sky would be really helpful. A slow moving blimp-thing could be devastated by a few teams hiding under trees and shooting missiles up at its balloon.
The problem is that the said blimps will also be rather high up in the skies. At least most types will. So something like the good'ol Acht-Acht would be better fit for this purpose. Missiles are technically light and easy to use but hardly reliable at such ranges. They make sense for aircraft because it saves weight for the same stopping power but they are kind of expensive and limited compared to artillery. Also some airships are heavily armored here. Missiles won't have the same armor penetration as a cannon shell. They have better range, cheaper ammo, more consistent fire rate and more versatile loadouts. Bonus the fact you can use the AA cannon as a makeshift anti-tank artillery. So I say the same as I previously did, stay with the cannons. They do a far better job.
I really need to make a post about Tinite soldiers terrorizing the Zanjir natives. But at the same time, I'm so lazy...Maybe tomorrow I'll do it.
Anyone care to take bets on whether Hael will get his post out before me?
you'll get it out first.
Alright, but seriously, it's coming. But I still have a collab I'm doing right now for that other RP, but I've decided it's time to give this the priority. It should be up...eventually.
