Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by The Survivor
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The country is in chaos right now, it seems. Fucking Dallas, right after the fact that those cops shot those people.

I don't know how we're gonna fix this. If you don't know, I'm talking about the U.S. and its police issue. In a matter of days, two blacks dudes and a white kid are shot and killed by police. Of course, the media is focused on the black guys more because fuck white people right? Despite the fact that more white people are killed by police than anyone else, but I digress.

We got a real problem and I don't know how to fix it. Obviously we need to acknowledge it, but what then from there? How are we gonna stop cops from being trigger happy? I know there's no real purpose to this thread, nothing is gonna happen, but I just need to get it off my chest, its been bothering me. I live in a rural state, predominately white. Police isn't an issue here, at least I've had no issue. I think its because the cops are more scared of us than we are of them, considering this whole region is heavy in rednecks who would sooner blow an intruder's head off than call the cops.

So I don't know what its like. I think its incredibly arrogant to talk about shit you haven't experienced and I don't know what its like in the cities among black people. I don't know if the cops are fucking chaining them up and whipping them, forcing them to pick cotton. Or if its just the media blowing it all up or what. I don't know. But what I do know is that I'm tired of seeing stories of cops shooting civilians, misconstrued or not. And I don't know how we're gonna fix it, whatever the actual problem is.

I just don't know what to do.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by KnightShade
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I have a plan to deal with this problem. And let me tell you, you did the right thing in coming to us on this one. I can't think of a better group of people to deal this situation.

Serious though, you do realise that even though more white people are shot, when you compare it to the percentage of the population that is white it's low. And compared to the black and latino population of the US, their percentage makeup of police shootings is high.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dion
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I mean, if you take into account that 9/10 times after the fact that a black unarmed guy gets shot, it becomes clear that actually he was armed, and BLM/blacks in general refuse to acknowledge that.. I do wonder how these statistics would stack up then.

Furthermore if you actually think about it for a moment you can even come up with a very credible theory as to why black people are disproportionately shot.

Not to infer that it is right. American cops are extremely trigger happy and I think that is due to two reasons namely

A) improper training, comparatively to European police officers who almost never fire their guns and when they do, accurately fire a warning shot into the sky, or accurately take down a target without killing. The exceptions being terrorists, who are usually killed due to being armed and dangerous. The point of this point specifically is that European cops are better trained, there are better entry standards and educational requirements (for example police academy takes 3 years for a simple street cop) and American cops seem to have knee-jerk reactions in literally every single situation.

B) because America has a dangerous fucking gun culture where every motherfucker can have a gun stuck in their pocket. Race doesn't matter in this point either because white trash is just as able to carry guns if not more capable than a thug. Imagine being a cop and approaching a situation with the knowledge that someone might have a gun. In America this chance is very high. And 9/10 times when they do approach a person that possibly has a gun, it turns out that he is armed.

This video gives some useful insight. Yes it's FOX news but that is besides the point. Just watch it and you'll understand why a country that has a dangerous gun culture has an abnormally higher amount of police violence in general.




Now on to why black people are disproportionately shot. The idea that black people are somehow more violent or something is stupid and anyone that wishes to infer that should feel equally stupid.

But the fact of the matter is that blacks usually live in a lower living standard, namely in the ghetto or the projects. The reasons for this are wide and broad and most easily related to history but I don't think that's really so important in this situation.

Socio-economic status is very low for these people and they are severely lacking in multiple departments such as

A) access to social mobility. Blacks have a harder time moving between social branches. Not many people ever move up from living in the ghetto. Living in the ghetto turns to point C) social acceptance for violence and illegal activities.

B) lack of father figures. Black fathers are often missing. Not a joke, not an insult, this is just fact. This is a self-repeating vicious cycle of lack of father figures too, because if 1 father dips, their son will get a woman pregnant and dip too, repeating the cycle. Lack of father/mother figures has been proven many times to be a big impact on how a child behaves and therefore is, to me, an important factor in fighting the root causes of the fact that blacks enter contact with cops so often. Social control theory explains why institutions such as family are so important.

Because it's important to recognize the US needs to fight root causes by looking at where these problems begin and not fight the symptoms. Then again, this is the US, they fight symptoms at literally every problem they face.

C) social acceptance for violence and illegal activities. I mean, you have to wonder why blacks are so often caught up in police shootings, where as other minorities (i.e. Asians or Native Americans) are often not, and I blame a social acceptance for violence and illegal activities. I want to go into this one a bit more, it is quite an important thing to grasp.

Strain theory for example states that, and I quote, 'the inability to achieve a desired goal' is a source of strain.

Now imagine you see people walking around wearing these sick new clothes, or the newest Jeezy's. Naturally you'd want those, especially in a street-setting like so many blacks live in, where materialism > everything. But you cannot achieve these in normal ways (due to your lack of socio-economic status). In laymans terms, you cannot earn money in the legal way (for whatever reason) but want to obtain something, therefore you use illegal means to obtain these items/goals.

-> increase of criminality therefore -> increase in contact with police -> amount of violent/serious crimes means higher amounts of violent contact -> blacks are more likely to get shot.

Now this is just a normal theory and doesn't mean precisely the acceptance for illegal activities however anomie and strain is so widespread in the black community that it's seen as 'the normal way to do things' and you can see this is glorified everywhere from black rap music to twitter and other social media.

It's an extremely easy to grasp theory that already explains a lot about why blacks are disproportionately treated either more violently, or face more checks on the street.

D) lack of schooling. Blacks are known to drop out more often, and never complete high school, severely limiting the amount of jobs available to them therefore meaning that this also contributes to their effects on the strain theory. Social control theory explains why school can be so important to prevent criminality.

EX: Chicago schools are some of the worst schools in the world, worse than African schools. Therefore kids learn nothing useful and the school spends more time keeping these children in check than actually teaching them something worthwhile.

Government projects do nothing in this department because once again they just throw money at the problem, and don't really do anything practical.

E) bad living quarters.

Should explain what you need to know.

Areas that have 'broken windows' are subjectively more prone to being part of criminal activities. Ghettoes/projects often are not the best cared for areas of a city and therefore people are more likely to enter criminality here, enhancing their interactions with the police.




I could go on, and on, about every theory there is. But fact of the matter is also that almost all of these theories applies in some way or shape to the black community, the same as the latino community.

The important thing that I am trying to explain here is not that it's the 'blackness' that causes this (though arguably in some rural areas, it may be skin color, because in rural areas cops are more likely to be racist). It's not even anything to do with being black, it's more about the 'group' and the conditions of that group and it's important to realize that blacks in the US don't really have much to work with and therefore are more likely to enter criminality and therefore enhance their interactions with police for a starter.

Now the cops are a whole other thing and frankly I don't know enough about this because US cops are very different from the European cops. For example UK cops don't even carry firearms. Dutch cops (where I am from) have to file 10 papers for every shot they fire, and there are barely ever shots fired in the Netherlands. Cops here are in touch with the Dutch community where they operate and are somehow connected, so it's less about 'stopping crime and arresting bad guys' and more about ensuring the public behavior is good. They're there to help and not to arrest. That's why they are trained in de-escalation and not in punitive action (though they do that from time to time, but only after a situation has already escalated). American cops seem to be extremely lacking in this department.

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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by The Survivor
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@KnightShade

Yeah, that's why I posted this in Spam.

And yeah, I know there is a shit ton of white people so white shootings in relation with the population, the percentage is low. But it still irks me that the media just picks and chooses which shootings to feature, which I also know, that's their job. It doesn't stop me from being irritated though.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Mateotis
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I'm not overly knowledgeable on the topic, being neither American, nor having had any negative experience with police before, but when the Alton Sterling case made its rounds, I've read a, for me, very insightful comment about the whole police brutality/trigger-happiness issue. I'll try to paraphrase it as good as I can.

There are massive differences between areas/districts/states in the US in every aspect (that doesn't surprise anyone). One of these aspects is the training of the police force. It tends to be better (along with the general quality of education) at places where the rate/probability of violence is already lower. Not to mention that the environment itself has an effect on its cops (dealing with dangerous cases day-to-day and fearing for your life is bound to make people anxious on some level). There are surely a variety of other factors too, but the main point is, simplified, that the ‘good’ cops are most often found in the already safer areas. And vica versa, unfortunately.

The commenter mentioned that they had an officer friend who was a great person and an excellent cop. He was a prime example of this: he had the decision to either give out tickets to soccer moms and hold educational speeches for the youth in a rich, suburban neighbourhood or deal with gangs, drug trade and all that jazz, risking your life at every step. The decision, unless you're either very bold or very dutiful, is a no-brainer.

Just my (and the commenter's) two cents.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Robeatics
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@Buddha </thread>
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dion
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@Robeatics You're welcome.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by mdk
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1x Thank Thank
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by KnightShade
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But does he need our shit?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by NotAMouse
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Yes it's FOX news but that is besides the point.


Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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I don't think the problem people have is as simple as the shootings are happening, or why they are happening. I mean, obviously those are problems, but specific to America I think the problem that caused this issue to escalate to cop sniping is the assumption that our justice system cannot handle it when a cop does something wrong. I don't think people would react as extremely as they do if they knew, or even could assume, that a cop who shoots a guy who it turns out he had no reasonable reason to shoot will end up being punished with more then some vacation time. It's why those arguments you see on the internet every time this happens, that "Why does BLM not focus on black on black shootings?" is impertinent for the reason that our legal system handles those cases, but it fails to handle the cop shootings.

As for the media focusing on black causes, yeh, that isn't ideal. But the news just as much as anything else on television is required to tell a good story to get viewers, and repeating the cops vs minorities story is sure to grab attention. Besides, if they expanded to talk about every time a cop did something wrong, they wouldn't have much time for any other news. Didn't they cover the time the cop tazed that little old lady though? I thought I saw that on the news.

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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dion
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<Snipped quote by Buddha>



It's like when Trump quoted Mussolini. When he was asked why he quoted a fascist, he said 'because it's a good quote.'

A genius can say dumb things, a smart man can say genius things. FOX news is usually wrong, but this was an interesting report.

I don't think the problem people have is as simple as the shootings are happening, or why they are happening. I mean, obviously those are problems, but specific to America I think the problem that caused this issue to escalate to cop sniping is the assumption that our justice system cannot handle it when a cop does something wrong. I don't think people would react as extremely as they do if they knew, or even could assume, that a cop who shoots a guy who it turns out he had no reasonable reason to shoot will end up being punished with more then some vacation time. It's why those arguments you see on the internet every time this happens, that "Why does BLM not focus on black on black shootings?" is impertinent for the reason that our legal system handles those cases, but it fails to handle the cop shootings.

As for the media focusing on black causes, yeh, that isn't ideal. But the news just as much as anything else on television is required to tell a good story to get viewers, and repeating the cops vs minorities story is sure to grab attention. Besides, if they expanded to talk about every time a cop did something wrong, they wouldn't have much time for any other news. Didn't they cover the time the cop tazed that little old lady though? I thought I saw that on the news.


I've heard that the assessment is an assessment-by-peers. I.e. the colleagues of a cop will assess whether he made a mistake.

aka they will get off scot-free 99% of the time unless everyone hates them. That should be changed and IMHO the FBI should be brought in to assess all lethal-force applications of all cops, everywhere in the USA.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darcs
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How are we gonna stop cops from being trigger happy?

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dion
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@Darcs Please be joking.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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@Darcs Please be joking.


Yeh!

That art doesn't make any sense. Does that black man have breasts? What exactly is his arm doing to that cop? And that isn't a pig, that is a boar. Not what they look like at all. Try something more like this.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Clearly the solution is to deport everyone back to their country of origin, no matter how many generations of division there are.

All British Americans get sent back to the isles, or Canada if they don't want to deal with post-Brexit UK. All French Americans back to France, or Quebec. All Germans to German, Chinese to China and so on and so forth.

When all we're left with is a few million scattered Native Americans with the infrastructure of the deported left behind to be sold to them at rates pebble to the penny then we will no longer have such violent murders. The US will never have such problems again when the US doesn't exist!
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Clearly the solution is to deport everyone back to their country of origin, no matter how many generations of division there are.

All British Americans get sent back to the isles, or Canada if they don't want to deal with post-Brexit UK. All French Americans back to France, or Quebec. All Germans to German, Chinese to China and so on and so forth.

When all we're left with is a few million scattered Native Americans with the infrastructure of the deported left behind to be sold to them at rates pebble to the penny then we will no longer have such violent murders. The US will never have such problems again when the US doesn't exist!


what happens if I'm 1/16th Cherokee?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

what happens if I'm 1/16th Cherokee?


Then I guess we see if the Cherokee'll take ya.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darcs
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Clearly the solution is to deport everyone back to their country of origin, no matter how many generations of division there are.

All British Americans get sent back to the isles, or Canada if they don't want to deal with post-Brexit UK. All French Americans back to France, or Quebec. All Germans to German, Chinese to China and so on and so forth.

When all we're left with is a few million scattered Native Americans with the infrastructure of the deported left behind to be sold to them at rates pebble to the penny then we will no longer have such violent murders. The US will never have such problems again when the US doesn't exist!


But how do you ship American Indians back to American India if America India doesn't exist anymore huh wiseguy?
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

But how do you ship American Indians back to American India if America India doesn't exist anymore huh wiseguy?


You ship them to the reservations where they're now in charge of re-populating the ruins of the white, black, and yellow man.

Or in a cruel twist of American stereotyping you ship them all to India.
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