Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Dervish
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The Nexerus said
I'm the most unbiased news source around. Just ask me.Oh, and Al Jazeera is not in any way a credible news source. It's a government owned body that's highly supportive of tenuous organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood. A partisan, government owned company does not a reliable news source make.


Source?

All I can find is what the US claimed about a particular reporter, who has wiki-leaks documents that go either way.

Source one.

This one's a bit more damning; it claims that reporters are tipped off about suicide attacks prior to them actually happening and says that they were given bin Laden videos to air, so there'd be some sort of connection with Al Qaeda that way.

Source two.

Then there's all the bits on Wikipedia:

Source three.

Anyways, I'm kind of finding conflicting opinions and reports after a few minutes of Google searching (can't be bothered with more than that for something I don't particularly care about), there's likely some sketchy connections, but there's also a lot of accusations which may be baseless. Either way, I'm primarily going off of what I've heard as a general consensus, which is Al Jazeera is generally pretty solid for reporting. I'm not defending or denying any of the accusations leveled at it, it probably has some dirty laundry, like most other news organizations. Chances are, most of their articles are probably pretty factual, regardless.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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My source for what? Their being owned by the Qatari government?
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Dervish
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The Nexerus said
My source for what? Their being owned by the Qatari government?


The ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queda.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Dervish said
The ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queda.


I never even said "Al Qaeda".
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by andromedene
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LoneSilverWolf said
AL Jazeera? You did not seriously say that effed up news source is unbiased? *eyeroll* Sorry, but EVERY news source is biased, I don't care where you go. You won't find one unbiased. And ESPECIALLY nothing from the frikkin middle-east where their leaders are a bunch of propoganda spreading anti-American haters!


You just referenced an entire population as "haters".

Oh my god.
Haters.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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ImANargleHunter said
You just referenced an entire population as "haters".Oh my god.Haters.


No..... he said 'their leaders are a bunch of.... haters.' Not the entire population.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by andromedene
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mdk said
No..... he said 'their leaders are a bunch of.... haters.' Not the entire population.


Actually, you're right. My bad.

Still.

Haters.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Try Vice yet?

Or maybe NPR if in a pinch?

And I'd also like to throw out Jack Lessenberry, who wrote a brief editorial/essay on the matter from an insider perspective, as the journalist he is. He admits faults in the system but addresses why they are. There was also another like his - I think - that talks about how bias may also be in the eye of the beholder ultimately.

But really the best thing you could try and do is pull from multiple sources. Obtaining background information on the matter/affected region may also be helpful in getting a broader view, since more often times than not a news report will simply skim over some details in favor of getting to the then and now.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by CidTheKid
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At least they're not all government owned revolutionary channels who do not shut the fuck up about how amazing and revolutionary the government is. And how everyone who thinks otherwise are awful human beings who are literally trying to depose the beloved leader.

In other words, at least you have bias in both directions. I have to troll people on Facebook to get meaningful information.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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what I actually do is, I browse news sources that don't appeal to me (Reddit and CNN are my primaries -- both bad). This is to counter my own selection-bias, which is what causes me to click on the things that interest me (for example I read more about regulatory overreach than I do about marriage equality). I don't do this every day, by any means, but periodically I go on these news-binges (with which I used to punish spam), and when that happens, I click on essentially every headline and at least browse. The goal is to take the temperature current events overall, not to become an expert -- that comes later. I'm just getting a broad-strokes idea of what's going on. So I look at everything.

Inevitably in the course of this binge, I'll stumble across *something* that feels like it's worth looking into more. This distinction comes from the content of the article, not from the headline. Headlines are editorialized. Articles are, too, but they're longer, so they're more likely to contain *something* worth looking at. Then I follow that up with a specific sort of research -- no, not 'google it.' I look for 'primary sources.' That means if the news is a reaction to the Trayvon Martin case, I go find the transcript from the juror address and I read THAT.

Let's do an example. There is no setup here, I'm typing as I do. I'll just pull up the first headline on CNN's front page, which is in a 'Ukraine in Crisis' subsection, and it's titled 'Big talks going on behind our backs.' Now CNN does this thing where they name the hotlink one thing, and then they name the article something else; the primary reason is, they update their existing pages from time to time with new information, but it's also a nice way to 'spin the spin.' From the link, I'm meant to know that secret negotiations are ongoing, and I'm meant to feel as though I would object to these negotiations if they were taking place publicly. That's the game of the link, it's tricky. But, i'm clicking links today, so let's jump in.

The page containing the article is titled 'In Crimea: 'I feel unsure about what will be tomorrow'' Uncertainty is the emotion, 'in Crimea' is an implicit local (it's attributed to some Crimean residents). Title could also mean that the writer is on-site; I don't know whether she is or not, but I imagine I'll find out shortly. Read along with me now, I'm gonna do a few paragraphs..... when you get to 'I prayed to God,' stop.

Did you read it? You.... you didn't read it, did you, you're terrible at this game. Okay. Well, in what must be Elizabeth Landau's mind, a cryptically-telling scene just unfolded. 'Papa,' cried the child, confused, 'Russia is so big. Why do they need our small peninsula?' And since this is Ukraine I assume the kid said this while slamming back Solitchnya from the bottle like it was a juicebox. And Papa had a hard time hearing over the sound of wrestling polar bears back out into the ghetto, where cars are crashing into each other and filming it for youtube.

"PAPA," the child says. "WHY DO THEY NEED OUR SMALL PENINSULA?" He lights a cigarette on a burning toy, and he blows the smoke onto his pet cat. WHY PAPA WHYYYYY!!"

There, you've just experienced the first few lines of Landau's report, not as they SAID, but as they ARE. By which I mean, the summary is equally useless as the original, but a bit more fun.

Now! NUMBERS are about to enter the party.

Russian forces have surrounded 10 Ukrainian military bases -- 16,000 troops in the past week, according to Ukrainian officials. No fighting or loss of life has been reported, but Crimean citizens such as Krocha are nervous about what will happen next.

Many ethnic Russians live in Crimea, where support for Russia is strong. Part of Russia's navy -- the Russian Black Sea Fleet -- has a base in Crimea's city of Sevastopol that has been there for 230 years.


This, I can work with. We have 16,000 troops -- file that away, you'll need it later. TAG IT --- as reported by Ukranian officials. That's probably important (that means that it's definitely important). Work quickly now because the numbers are marching off to wherever numbers go. Here comes more sad baby:

cha is a Russian-speaking Ukrainian and his wife is Russian. This week their children are back in school, and the streets are open again. In that respect, life has returned to normal, but having Russian troops present is "not OK," Krocha said.
Not far from the parliament, soldiers are stationed in and outside of armored cars on one side of the street, Krocha said. He sees no reason for them and it's unclear to him what the troops are protecting.
Meanwhile, Krocha has noticed gas prices rise some 25% over the last 10 days, and many foods have become more expensive too. A local market was out of two kinds of rice, canned meat and other products yesterday, he said.
"There was panic and people tried to buy much more than they usually buy," he said.

In this quote I wanted to make sure all the useful data shone through, so I struckout everything that was pointless and designed (by Landau) to woo your senses into something sinister. Well, enough of that. I am done with Sad Baby News. We can throw this article back to the sea now, IF -- did you remember to tag that data? You forgot. It's okay, you're new to this. Here we have data, saved from certain watery death as it drowned in all the tears cried for sad-baby-news-baby. Here's the line we took away from that:

Russian forces have surrounded 10 Ukrainian military bases -- 16,000 troops


Precious, precious numbers. They sing to me. Now, what are we actually looking at here -- does this say that '16,000 russian forces have surrounded 10 Ukranian military bases?' Maybe. Or does it say '10 Ukranian bases, containing 16,000 troops, were surrounded by russian forces?" Or could it be that 10 bases were surrounded when Russians forced 16,000 Ukranian troops to do the hokey-pokey?' Ain't that a bitch, we can't tell! Okay. Now's the perfect time to use our powers for good. We have learned that a number happened, so now, let us use google to find out everything we can about that number.

Click here

Russian troops! Done. No need to click on anything else in that stack of rubbish, what we know is that the news will have us believe 16,000 Russian troops are surrounding Ukranian military bases -- or golfing nearby, or chicken-dancing, the point is, there are russian troops, 16,000 of them, Ukraine seems to be upset about what they're doing.

At this moment you know all the news will give you -- a little inelegant, perhaps, but you have specifically what the contention is right at this second. Russia has 16k army dudes in Ukraine (according to Ukraine) and Ukraine doesn't like it. Click a hundred news reports, that's what you'll read. I saved you the time, they are all garbage. Now, what do you suppose we could do to learn more? Obviously in an adversarial situation like this, we could always pick a side. Let's do that! Let's pick a side! For my part I'm going to pick whoever is legally in the right. Who's that? LET'S FIND OUT!

Checking for a variety of key words. What I want isn't a news article to tell me who's right -- I just want to find somebody who's citing one or more of these agreements, be they treaty, international law, UN resolution, what have you. This will require me to parse a few useless articles written by bimbos, but it's the quickest way to get what I want. It also gives me rabbit-holes, like the one that just explained to me with LOAC that soldiers aren't legally required to wear their nation's insignia (duh), so that aspect of the invasion was legal.Which I care nothing about, I want to know if the invasion was legal at all in the first place, I don't care if they were wearing funny hats.

Here we go. This is from The Blaze (Glenn Beck's news site), so appreciate what it is; but they'll call up a little-known treaty referred to here as the 'Budapest Memorandum.'

THIS.

THIS is what you're looking for in your news search. All that bullshit we just went through was to reach THIS!! Let's find out and actually read the actual text of the actual treaty. Your search is almost complete -- you have to find one sourced on the web, which is sometimes hard to do. You can find the wikipedia page easily enough, but that doesn't count for shit unless the herd of idiots and trolls and sheep that edit WikiPedia pages happened to leave you the source document as a reference. In this case, sure enough, they did. you can read it here.

No summarizations, please, read the document. News exists only to provide you with the motivation to reach this document, at which point your education can begin.

--read--

Now what I know is, Ukraine voluntarily disarmed its nuclear deterrent against invasion and occupation, upon the principle that the powers here named (Russia, Britain, US) will take no aggression against the Ukraine. Now I happen to have overheard earlier on talk radio that this treaty was reaffirmed as recently as 2009, in Washington, signed by then-and-now President Obama. (Had I not heard this on the radio, I would now be scanning the internet to determine whether or not this treaty still held any meaning, and upon concluding that it does, I would have sought out who and where and when it was last affirmed, and arrived at the same conclusion by a few more steps.

SO.

Reviewing: We started with 'babies are crying in Ukraine,' mysteriously linked under the furtive 'Big talks going on behind our backs.' Well, now we know what those talks are, because we know the legal situation which has necessitated them. We are now more informed than anyone who reads the news, and we did it while avoiding the news at every opportunity, and also by taking like two... okay like three hydrocodone tabs, and my ambien, but that wasn't until waaaaaaaaay after, so probably just the hydrocodone and the lyrica. Wait did I say Lyrica..... fuck it. POINT IS. News is not information. news does not contain information. When you're reading the news don't bother trying to parse out what's biased and what isn't. News is USELESS anyway, except as a shortcut towards reaching facts -- and the facts you find, the ones that matter, aren't reported, because they're too important to publish in some shitty homeless-guy-sleepingbag. Skip. The news. Find the sources, and when you've found them, don't stop at reading. Learn them. And you will forever be right, because the news cycle is going to spin its wheels for weeks, and the people who follow the news are going to keep following every turn of the conversation. "Well NOW they're saying that Ukrainian troops are standing down." 'actually their military is gutted by the non-proliferation treaties they signed with us and russia so 'standing down' is a little redundant, but okay, sure, they're standing down." 'NOW they're saying there's a treaty and we might have to go to war with Russia over it!" No, the treaty just says we'll be consulting the UN security council for immediate action, though technically that's only if Russia was bringing nukes to the fight, so.... "HOLDY SHITS MDK SAYS RUSSIA'S GONNA NUKE UKRAINE!!" sit down, young one, and learn my ways.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Smiral
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^look at those paragraphs no one will be reading

Recently, I've renewed my taste for VICE, they publish a shit ton of enlightening content, and I don't detect bias.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Hank
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LoneSilverWolf said
AL Jazeera? You did not seriously say that effed up news source is unbiased? *eyeroll* Sorry, but EVERY news source is biased, I don't care where you go. You won't find one unbiased. And ESPECIALLY nothing from the frikkin middle-east where their leaders are a bunch of propoganda spreading anti-American haters!


Al Jazeera is owned by the government of Qatar, which is (by Arab standards) very chummy with the West. Your ignorance is showing, American.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Turtlicious
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While I generally loathe to agree with mdk on principal, that was a very good post. I just want I guess a "fact aggregator" that would just push the reports onto my news feed for me to read myself.

In other news, we should all be laughing at SilverWolf for calling Al Jazeera basically, "Al Qaeda propaganda."
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by StarWight
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More like middle-east government popoganda, is how I saw it. And laugh all u want, i don't really give a crap :p
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by andromedene
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Smiral said
^look at those paragraphs no one will be readingRecently, I've renewed my taste for VICE, they publish a shit ton of enlightening content, and I don't detect bias.


I read them and they were actually p informative.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Hank
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Turtlicious said
While I generally loathe to agree with mdk on principal, that was a very good post. I just want I guess a "fact aggregator" that would just push the reports onto my news feed for me to read myself.


As a Dutch citizen there's nu.nl, which just writes short unopinionated factual blurbs about what's going on in the world. Unfortunately for you, it's in Dutch.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Smiral said
^look at those paragraphs no one will be readingRecently, I've renewed my taste for VICE, they publish a shit ton of enlightening content, and I don't detect bias.


All of their reporters look like hippies. That's bias enough.
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The Nexerus said
All of their reporters look like hippies. That's bias enough.


um

uh

The founders who are also correspondents look kinda like normal people
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Cpt Toellner
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"Al Jazeera", that's a Arabic news station! They must have ties with terrorists! No way I'm going to let a Middle-Eastern news agency tell me about whats going on in the Middle-East!"

Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Overwatch
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ok, guys. If you don't want bias from people who spin the stories... why don't we have robots gather all the information, and just show it?
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