@Malchivo It's looking alright so far.

I reckon the personality section is a good candidate to elaborate on, now that you ask. Does Thacel have temperaments and behaviours with other people? Is he a cold and stone-faced individual or passionate with some things? It's good to explain his morality and his limits, but I can't really tell what he's like to interact with.

The whole deep analysis of war for the sake of improving is very Toun-like, which I think is fitting given your selected fatherhood. I like that. If there are Ilunabar-like traits he has inherited, that might also be a good way to flesh out the personality section, or even some other parts as well.

The only other question I really have at the moment is regarding consideration -- you might want to keep your answer secret from us, and that's fine. Does he have reasons for going out and documenting war strategy? It's not a huge thing. I mean, many characters do what they do because Fate said so at the beginning and they went 'Meh, okay.'

Anyway, I like the effort put in! It's a good thing you read the rules ;)

@Malchivo Nice character. There's been a war recently IC. You might want to work around that, say, create your character some time before the Rukban-Maerkoz war and have him reference it in his intro post etc etc. You are right on time with this war god, since war is basically brewing everywhere right now.

@Muttonhawk This is exactly the type of response I was hoping to receive. I will address your comments/questions in the order you asked.

I had actually meant to add in how he is in personal interactions but somehow I managed to blank that so thank you for bringing it up. I will edit that in shortly, and I must admit I feel quite foolish for forgetting to do so.

That is part of the reason I had given him so that trait since it was one that would reflect one of his "parents" (not sure which process you two will go about hence the quotation marks) and worked well with the demigod I was creating. I just wasn't sure which traits of Ill would work well with everything else, if you or Capy have any suggestions on that front I would love to hear them.

As for the reason behind his documentation it is really for his own benefit. He doesn't have a grand scheme to declare war on the universe (I am looking at you @Dawnscroll) but he knows that wars will only get more and more devastating and he doesn't want to be caught off guard because he was inadequately prepared.

@Vec If things fall into place that is what I had in mind, but it depends on when/if my character is improved and when Mutton and Capy have enough time to create him.

No probs, brocules.

That is part of the reason I had given him so that trait since it was one that would reflect one of his "parents" (not sure which process you two will go about hence the quotation marks) and worked well with the demigod I was creating. I just wasn't sure which traits of Ill would work well with everything else, if you or Capy have any suggestions on that front I would love to hear them.

I think Capy is a better person to provide suggestions. I can only say through my interpretation that Ilunabar is particularly interested in keeping things vibrant, interesting, and constantly developing. This can run counter to brutal efficiency, but not all the time. Ilunabar can be rather aloof, proud, and sure of herself from what I've read, though she is not beyond kindness and fear. If you find posts where she is interacting with her divas or Teknall, that might give you some inspiration.

The only solid thing I can think of is for the whole raw improvement thing to be compromised occasionally when something aesthetically or culturally interesting comes out of war. I mean, come on, who doesn't think that a Roman legion in formation doesn't look beautiful sometimes?

The only solid thing I can think of is for the whole raw improvement thing to be compromised occasionally when something aesthetically or culturally interesting comes out of war. I mean, come on, who doesn't think that a Roman legion in formation doesn't look beautiful sometimes?

That is an excellent idea but I don't know how to properly implement it/word it in the sheet itself. He would view it as a flaw given to him from Ill, given her portfolio for aesthetics, but it isn't like there would be anything he could do about it.

@Malchivo, I like it. The premise is good. A cold, calculating tactician and strategist. Seeking continual self improvement (sounds exactly like Toun).

If you are thinking about Ilunabaric elements, remember that Ilunabar makes stories. You don't have to explicitly reflect her character, so long as whatever your character ends up doing will make for a good story (not necessarily good for Thacel, but a good story nonetheless).

(P.S. See Conata. The various elements of her character and circumstances have made for a good story. In my head-cannon, if it were entirely up to Teknall, then he would have set things up to be less difficult for her; maybe design her in goblin form, or something else less alien to the Rovaick. But that wouldn't have made for a good story, so (again, in my retroactive head-cannon and not (yet) approved by Capy) Ilunabar would have designed Conata to have those opportunities for personal conflict and struggle.)

I comment that Thacel encompasses a different aspect of war to Kyre. Kyre focused on the more strength-like components, with the Portfolio of Combat (and he aimed to get Armaments as well, although now that he's gone I'll see if I can get Teknall to nab it, given all the Might he's spent on various armaments), while Thacel focuses on the planning and mental aspects. But there are similarities too, such as not being blood-thirsty war-gods, and aiming to improve the skills of mortal armies.

As for Alignment, if anything, I'd say Thacel tends towards Lawful Neutral. He most definitely is not Chaotic. Alignment is an interesting one, though. More on that later.

Also, did you know that we have a wiki?

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Alignment. I've been thinking a bit about it.

The classic alignment axes are Good vs Evil and Law vs Chaos.

Around the start of this RP, it was commented by some (notably Vulamera) about the arbitrariness and limitations of that system.

Also around the start of this RP, we observed that a very clear line was drawn between Order and Chaos. Good and Evil were largely ignored, mainly because in such a fresh World there was no fixed moral code to properly define Good and Evil. But Order and Chaos were very distinct and also at odds since before the creation of the Universe. (In this scenario, Law is equivalent to Order)

As the RP progressed, Good and Evil started to become more apparent, but there was still plenty of grey area, and the main conflict still existed between Order and Chaos.

However, I have observed the emergence of a third, independent axis; how our characters relate to mortals (call it Divine vs Mortal for now, although I'm sure a better name can be devised). This axis is especially important in a god roleplay like Divinus. Someone on the Divine end of the spectrum is aloof or cavalier, caring little for the fate or concerns of the mortals beneath them. Someone on the Mortal end is deeply concerned with mortal affairs.

A notable clash of Mortal vs Divine I remember is the encounter between Logos and Teknall. Despite both being on the side of Order, they found their positions irreconcilable due to opposing opinions on mortals.

It was commented a while back in the OOC about what gods wore clothes and what gods didn't. Dawnscroll made the observation that clothes are very much a mortal thing, with those dealing solely in the divine not needing clothes. As such, we can observe a loose correlation between whether or not a god wears clothes and where they fit on the Mortal vs Divine axis. Of course, there are some exceptions (Toun is always described as wearing a porcelain robe (which is technically part of his body, but let's ignore that), but the symbology there better fits the covering of flaws than any relation to mortals), but it tends to be true.

And while I have asserted that the Divine vs Mortal axis is independent, there are correlations. Characters described as Good tend to fit in Mortal, while characters described as Evil tend to fit in Divine. This wouldn't be a huge coincidence, as Good in general means you help others while Evil means you are self-serving with no care for others. In this case, Mortal vs Divine would be best for separating out feelings towards mortals from feelings towards other gods. Toun's current alignment is described as Lawful Evil. But towards the other gods, he has deep (albeit hidden) feelings of compassion. One might tentatively reclassify Toun as Lawful Divine Good. His intentions are Good, but lesser beings (i.e. mortals) are beneath his compassion. (The classification is not perfect, of course, but you can't really hope to fully encapsulate the morality of a complex entity in two or three words.)

The Mortal vs Divine distinction is also quite useful for distinguishing the different shades of Neutral, and we have a lot of Neutral characters. These Neutral characters tend fall into that category either because they are indifferent (thus, fits in Divine) or because their interactions with mortals are on average neither good or bad (for those who fit in Mortal).

tl;dr, I have observed the existence of a third alignment axis: Mortal vs Divine.

<Snipped quote by Muttonhawk>

That is an excellent idea but I don't know how to properly implement it/word it in the sheet itself. He would view it as a flaw given to him from Ill, given her portfolio for aesthetics, but it isn't like there would be anything he could do about it.

It doesn't necessarily have to be something he sees as a flaw or even something that he's aware of. Stew on it in the meantime for Double Capybara to give opinions and you might come up with something.

Edit: Ninja'd by wall of text.

Alignment doesn't matter for anything except an at-a-glance look at inclinations. Personal objectives and views on a closer level are much more defining.

Also the wiki is very much in alpha stages. Very incomplete.

Alignment doesn't matter for anything except an at-a-glance look at inclinations. Personal objectives and views on a closer level are much more defining.

Oh, yeah, agreed. I had just observed a definite Mortal vs Divine dynamic and wanted to ramble about it.

@BBeast You are something else entirely, in the most magnificent of ways. That is a perfect way to represent the other half of his creation as well as one that wouldn't be difficult to implement given that the goal of roleplaying is to craft a good story.

As for the key difference between Kyne and Thacel I am happy to see that thus far it has been a well received concept. I know I could have made the distinction between the two further by giving Thacel that bloodthirsty quality that is Kyne lacked but I don't feel it would have worked as well as retaining the cool and calm outlook.

Thank you for defining his alignment for me, I wasn't positive where he would fall besides being neutral due to the fact that while he does help it isn't done with the intent of actually helping. Instead it is a means to test how his skill in strategy has developed, which he can't do very well without helping one side or the other. With this in mind do you still think he would lean more towards Lawful Neutral or pure Neutral? Also that was a thrilling read about the emergence of a third axis of alignment.

And I was aware that there was one, is there any particular reason you brought it up or just asking?

@Muttonhawk I will certainly be following BBeast's suggestion, though if Capy has any I may implement them along with if I figure out a good way to word the one you suggested.

Also personality has been elaborated upon.

As for the key difference between Kyne and Thacel I am happy to see that thus far it has been a well received concept. I know I could have made the distinction between the two further by giving Thacel that bloodthirsty quality that is Kyne lacked but I don't feel it would have worked as well as retaining the cool and calm outlook.

*Kyre

A total contrast would not have been necessary. Besides, blood-thirstiness and intelligent tactics/strategy don't go too well together.

With this in mind do you still think he would lean more towards Lawful Neutral or pure Neutral?

I think the answer to that question is whether you consider Thacel as honourable. 'Lawful' means adhering to some set of rules. For many characters in Divinus, these rules are some interpretation of Order, but in Thacel's case, a more relevant set of rules to consider are those of Honour.

Some character questions: Is there any strategy so underhanded, immoral or dishonourable that not even Thacel would employ it? If there is, under what circumstances might Thacel be pushed to break that rule? Would Thacel betray an ally if he could derive sufficient benefit from it? If Thacel makes a deal, promise or pact, would he break it if it was strategically beneficial or necessary, or would he stick to his word regardless of the consequence to the war? If Thacel (or some champion of his) gets in a duel with the champion of the enemy army, the outcome of which may determine the outcome of the battle, would he fight fair or dirty?

You don't need to answer them publicly, but think over them.

And I was aware that there was one, is there any particular reason you brought it up or just asking?

No special reason. I had been mulling over it for a while, but hadn't had a good reason to bring it up until now.

@BBeast That was supposed to be a thanks, I hate using my phone when it comes to clicking on those -_-. Anyway thank you, I believe that pure neutral would be the best in regards to the questions you gave me to consider.

@Malchivo@Muttonhawk

I do think the personality is very compatible with Ilunabar.

Ilunabar thinks a lot about the clash of concepts and is typically reactive to imbalances, at times being chaotic in the face of order, and orderly in the face of chaos. That seems to go along with the mentality described in the war domain.

She also has that hand-off morality where, as said in her CS, she can give someone a vial of poison and feel no guilty when it is used because it wasn't her doing it. It is not exactly like the coldness of Thacel, but that can be blamed on Toun.

She also takes a lot of time observing and analyzing things, that is why both Piena and The Index exits, after all. (Info on Piena, it might be useful.) Hell, he probably would like to spend some time in her library, considering it probably has a record of most previous wars.

If he was a front-line god of war, to mirror Ilunabar's mentality he would need to be more flamboyant and heroic, and speak like William Shatner, just like the martial arts Diva I have been looking forward to make.

But as a strategist god, he is very similar to how Ilunabar would act. Lots of observation; a constant wanderlust for new things; excuses to keep oneself out of the moral implications of the bloodshed; a focus on good strategy vs brutal force, especially when it means that a small group can outwit a powerful and large one. (Which means a taste for "no easy victories", similar to how Ilunabar prefers to not be too efficient in certain areas for the sake of "struggle" which helps to train skills and ward off stagnation.)

He probably would be against putting muscles and boob plates on armor though, "not useful and sincerely kinda dumb" he says. I blame Toun.

@Double Capybara Sounds legit to me. I guess the next step is GM approval, unless there are any further adjustments to make.

@Double Capybara That end bit was the absolute best. And very true. I agree he would be very interested on visiting the library, after all he cannot test out a strategy in open combat if he is not aware of precedents for it nor could he create new ones without something to modify.

Also I love how anything that didn't line up exactly you just blamed on Toun.

@Muttonhawk As far as I am aware nothing else needs tweaking unless one of you two see something that does?

@Malchivo

Much excite new character. Wow. Many war. Great strats. Woof.

@Lauder One of the best responses yet!