Eastern[/All] Europe gon be wild.

How much can I alter the history of Spain?

Also, can I just take Egypt instead?

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

How much can I alter the history of Spain?

Also, can I just take Egypt instead?

It's not like any of us really have much history to re-write. In the case of Spain the Peninsular War was basically just after the PoD. And despite the French campaign to de-install the Napoleonic legacy from Spain, their basis is also gone or greatly weakened since that's the central crux of Europe: the olde feudal classes are more diminished than IRL. So that's the premise you have to work with if for Spain.

Though while I would prefer Europe, fine: you can be Egypt if you can work with the material better

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

It's not like any of us really have much history to re-write. In the case of Spain the Peninsular War was basically just after the PoD. And despite the French campaign to de-install the Napoleonic legacy from Spain, their basis is also gone or greatly weakened since that's the central crux of Europe: the olde feudal classes are more diminished than IRL. So that's the premise you have to work with if for Spain.

Though while I would prefer Europe, fine: you can be Egypt if you can work with the material better

Thanks! And it's more like I know only the basics of Spanish history at this time except for the Philippines, and I'd probably focus on the latter more than the Spanish Mainland if I take Spain.

Name: Vilayet of Egypt

Leader: Muhammad Ali of Egypt

History: Taking advantage of the power vacuum left in Egypt due to the departure of the Napoleonic Expedition which had taken it from the Ottoman Empire in the last years of the eighteeneth century, Muhammad Ali Pasha, an Albanian commander who was part of the Ottoman forces sent to reoccupy Egypt, used the personal troops under his employ as well as his canny political skills to play the old elites and his fellow newcomers against each other, eventually rising to power as Egypt's new governor. As the Napoleonic Wars wound down, he dispatched his chief rivals, the Mamluks, through a bloody massacre which broke their power forever.

This allowed him to pass vital reforms without interference, such as the nationalization of land and the taxation of charitable endowments. Through a monopoly on trade and the improvement of Egypt's much-neglected agricultural system, he made enough revenue to not just buy Western weapons, but build factories which produced muskets and a shipyard capable of building 100-gun warships (this was IRL). He built dams, technical schools, and allowed European Businesses to enter the country as long as they contributed part of their profits to his treasury. This allowed for a rapid modernization and development, especially as he also sent students to Europe in order to make sure that he had specialists who knew how his weapons worked.

Eventually, he managed to provoke a dispute between himself and the Governor of Syria (which included everything from Antioch to Jerusalem at this time), which he used as a cassus belli for rebelling against the Ottoman Empire and invading it, bringing it down to its knees with his new modernized army, which advanced almost to Constantinople itself until the West sent an ultimatum: Back down or be broken. When he refused, he met his first serious setback, with his forces and navy being defeated and being beaten back to Cicilia, where he managed to save his conquests by making hasty diplomatic concessions, including pledging loyalty to the Sultan in exchange for continued rulership of Southeastern Anatolia and the Levant.

As he reconsolidated his position, the next challenge was a rebellion in Palestine, where high taxes and loss of power have caused both peasants and local elites to revolt against his rule. Crushing this rebellion with immense brutality (a dark side to his rule), Muhammad Ali rebuilt his modern army and navy, careful to deal delicately with the Europeans so that they do not interfere. During that time, he sent expeditions south to make sure the Sudan was under his thumb, providing valuable gold to further finance his modernization programs, while securing the best possible education for his sons and grandsons. However, the ambition burning inside him was not quenched, and he began seeking allies in various European countries and their governments.

However, it was clear that he needed a way to gain their backing for a further partition of the Ottomans, and one day, an idea occured to him: Why not ally with the restive Christian populations of the Ottoman Empire, as well as minority Islamic sects like the Bektashi Order (which had a large following in his home region of Albania)? By posing as a supporter of the former, he might be able to get European goodwill, enough for him to fragment the Ottomans further at the cost of the loyalty of the local ulema and traditionalist Muslims. But if the idea did succeed, if he managed to truly prop up Egypt as the Ottomans' successor, that would be a small price to pay...

@Dinh AaronMk

@Letter Bee the British would not just sit there and let you build anything to challenge their power. Consider us either about to go to war, or we’re bombarding the heck out of you as we speak.

@Letter Bee the British would not just sit there and let you build anything to challenge their power. Consider us either about to go to war, or we’re bombarding the heck out of you as we speak.

Is this an attempt to intimidate me OOC? If so, I am counting that as metagaming.

@Pagemaster, actually, I'll be blunt: Please stop being rude or treating me like shit, or I will escalate to the point where the Mods will need to be called in.

Is this an attempt to intimidate me OOC? If so, I am counting that as metagaming.

@Pagemaster, actually, I'll be blunt: Please stop being rude or treating me like shit, or I will escalate to the point where the Mods will need to be called in.

1) Great Britain absolutely had a ton of influence in the Mediterranean, and this trend would continue up until World War 2 OTL. Even things like the transfer of the Ionian Islands over to Greece only occurred due to British interests in keeping a bastion across the Mediterranean against Ottoman - and later Russian - interests in the Black and East Mediterranean. There was significant vested interest in keeping the Ottoman Empire at least strong enough to square up against the Russians just out of realpolitik: It's how the entire Crimean War broke out. And I don't see them just sitting around and letting a new power in the Mediterranean just run around practically unchecked while they just sat around and twiddled their thumbs: Or any other Great Power, for that matter.

2) Dude, call the mods and see how few of them are going to put up with some shit that happened in an OOC chat over literally one message about a CS detail.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

1) Great Britain absolutely had a ton of influence in the Mediterranean, and this trend would continue up until World War 2 OTL. Even things like the transfer of the Ionian Islands over to Greece only occurred due to British interests in keeping a bastion across the Mediterranean against Ottoman - and later Russian - interests in the Black and East Mediterranean. There was significant vested interest in keeping the Ottoman Empire at least strong enough to square up against the Russians just out of realpolitik: It's how the entire Crimean War broke out. And I don't see them just sitting around and letting a new power in the Mediterranean just run around practically unchecked while they just sat around and twiddled their thumbs: Or any other Great Power, for that matter.

2) Dude, call the mods and see how few of them are going to put up with some shit that happened in an OOC chat over literally one message about a CS detail.

1.) Of course they did. Doesn't change the fact that Muhammad Ali's actions happened IRL. All of them, and he already did get a setback when he tried gobbling up the entire Ottoman Empire IRL and in this RP. As far as I am concerned, the only wrong thing I did was alter the order of a few IRL events and actions. As it is, Muhammad Ali had the territory he had IRL and in this setting; see the map, and he was absolutely conducting reforms and modernization IRL as well.

2.) I already did. Now please take your rudeness with you and Page's bullying, too.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

I will hold myself back from that insult.

As it is, everything my played nation did was IRL. Everything, although the order of events may have been a bit muddled.

And considering how Britain has a France which is soon to boil over in renewed Revolution to deal with, there will only be a limited window for any bombardment.

It matters not if France occupies the British landscapes, for there is but one man who does the job

@LetMeDoStuff Stuffywuffykins youw heww! Wooking fowawd to pwaying wiff youwu!

As it is, everything my played nation did was IRL. Everything, although the order of events may have been a bit muddled.

And considering how Britain has a France which is soon to boil over in renewed Revolution to deal with, there will only be a limited window for any bombardment.

no

@Letter BeeI see you have chosen… death…

It matters not if France occupies the British landscapes, for there is but one man who does the job

That was a successful attempt at lightening the mood.

Either way, escalation over; I will admit that my threat to bring in the mods over perceived bullying was a mistake, and I am sorry.

That said, I will continue to stand by my statements that I am following IRL history as well, and that as long as I don't try gobbling up the Ottomans again, I do have a free-ish hand.

Add that to the fact that Pagemaster, instead of saying "we might bombard you if you become too strong; here are ways to de-escalate without invalidating your nation idea", jumped straight to bombardment, and you can see how I felt bullied.