People miss a lot of things I say.

It does say could. I also said it was a lie. I would be dead too, along with a good number of other people. Whoever wrote the article I read was an idiot.

Is suicide selfish? Well, it's selfish insofar as it is a decision a person makes without regard to how it will affect others, but what of it? Other people are not entitled to one's life in the first place. Claiming that others are selfish for denying you something you want but have no right or entitlement to is a kind of selfishness in and of itself. It's a crude metaphor, but decrying those who commit suicide as selfish because it makes other people feel bad is like saying someone putting password protection on their wi-fi is selfish because other people want to use it and being unable to is annoying for them. Sure, by the definition of the word both of those acts are selfish, but being selfish is not inherently bad. Just because something is selfish does not make it unacceptable or wrong. It is utterly reasonable to place higher value on yourself than on others. Selfishness is in essence an expression of thought that other people's desires are not as important as your own, and this too is reasonable.

I find it entirely selfish that people whine about their own sadness when someone they were close to committed suicide. What of the person who went through with suicide? Whatever they were going through (likely depression, and likely other things too) was so bad that they felt their only way out was to end their life to escape it. Now that's some hardcore fucking sadness for you. Quit your bitching and try to empathize with that situation before declaring that now dead person to be horrible for their selfish act. People are so selfishly concerned with their own feelings that they lose sight of this sort of thing. Who are you to condemn another person's selfishness that caused you some pain when you're selfishly dismissing their greater pain in the same breath? It's fucking ridiculous, and it's one of the many things that show how stupidly and incorrectly people view and treat mental health issues.

Getting all upset with a depressed person for committing suicide is like being pissed off at someone for dying because they got mugged and stabbed multiple times and died in the hospital a couple weeks later. A person who becomes depressed or has other mental health issues causing suicidal thoughts is no more at fault than someone who gets mugged, and the hard truth is that sometimes all the medical help in the world isn't enough to save someone from a stab wound. It's even worse for mental health issues, because someone who was stabbed will always rush to get medical attention, but due to our fucked up societal views on mental illness tons of people who are depressed or have other issues don't seek help. They're walking around with what is essentially a mental stab wound and not seeking help due to a very reasonable fear of what people will think of them and say about them and how people will treat them for it, and those same people then have the gall to be upset with them when it ends in death. It's absurd. If I had to measure the balance of selfishness in the equation, I'd say the lesser weight definitely lies on the side of those who commit suicide. Those who decry and blame them are so much more selfish that it's not even a contest as far as I can see, and it's extremely hypocritical to boot.

Is suicide tragic? Eh, depends on how much value to you place on any individual human life. I, for instance, don't place any more inherent value in life in general than I place in non-living things, and I only rate human life as a smidgen more valuable than non-human life because I'm a human and I'm selfish enough to place myself and my kind above other creatures. There are over 7 billion of us alive right now, so I don't see the death of one person as some horrible loss. It's unfortunate I guess, sucks for those who knew the person, but I wouldn't go for some melodramatic term like tragic to describe it. But what the hell, if appeals to pathos are required to get people to understand that denouncing and condemning people who commit suicide is bullshit and we need to reform the way we treat mental health, then so be it. Viewing it as terribly sad and dreadful is better than belittling it at least.

Overwatch said I don't care if you are crippled from the waist down... March forward!

Jorick said
Is suicide selfish? Well, it's selfish insofar as it is a decision a person makes without regard to how it will affect others, but what of it? Other people are not entitled to one's life in the first place. Claiming that others are selfish for denying you something you want but have no right or entitlement to is a kind of selfishness in and of itself. It's a crude metaphor, but decrying those who commit suicide as selfish because it makes other people feel bad is like saying someone putting password protection on their wi-fi is selfish because other people want to use it and being unable to is annoying for them. Sure, by the definition of the word both of those acts are selfish, but being selfish is not inherently bad. Just because something is selfish does not make it unacceptable or wrong. It is utterly reasonable to place higher value on yourself than on others. Selfishness is in essence an expression of thought that other people's desires are not as important as your own, and this too is reasonable.I find it entirely selfish that people whine about their own sadness when someone they were close to committed suicide. What of the person who went through with suicide? Whatever they were going through (likely depression, and likely other things too) was so bad that they felt their only way out was to end their life to escape it. Now that's some hardcore fucking sadness for you. Quit your bitching and try to empathize with that situation before declaring that now dead person to be horrible for their selfish act. People are so selfishly concerned with their own feelings that they lose sight of this sort of thing. Who are you to condemn another person's selfishness that caused you some pain when you're selfishly dismissing their greater pain in the same breath? It's fucking ridiculous, and it's one of the many things that show how stupidly and incorrectly people view and treat mental health issues.Getting all upset with a depressed person for committing suicide is like being pissed off at someone for dying because they got mugged and stabbed multiple times and died in the hospital a couple weeks later. A person who becomes depressed or has other mental health issues causing suicidal thoughts is no more at fault than someone who gets mugged, and the hard truth is that sometimes all the medical help in the world isn't enough to save someone from a stab wound. It's even worse for mental health issues, because someone who was stabbed will always rush to get medical attention, but due to our fucked up societal views on mental illness tons of people who are depressed or have other issues don't seek help. They're walking around with what is essentially a mental stab wound and not seeking help due to a very reasonable fear of what people will think of them and say about them and how people will treat them for it, and those same people then have the gall to be upset with them when it ends in death. It's absurd. If I had to measure the balance of selfishness in the equation, I'd say the lesser weight definitely lies on the side of those who commit suicide. Those who decry and blame them are so much more selfish that it's not even a contest as far as I can see, and it's extremely hypocritical to boot.Is suicide tragic? Eh, depends on how much value to you place on any individual human life. I, for instance, don't place any more inherent value in life in general than I place in non-living things, and I only rate human life as a smidgen more valuable than non-human life because I'm a human and I'm selfish enough to place myself and my kind above other creatures. There are over 7 billion of us alive right now, so I don't see the death of one person as some horrible loss. It's unfortunate I guess, sucks for those who knew the person, but I wouldn't go for some melodramatic term like tragic to describe it. But what the hell, if appeals to pathos are required to get people to understand that denouncing and condemning people who commit suicide is bullshit and we need to reform the way we treat mental health, then so be it. Viewing it as terribly sad and dreadful is better than belittling it at least.

Damn you for making so many posts within a weeks time that hold so much truth to them! :P

"Getting all upset with a depressed person for committing suicide is like being pissed off at someone for dying because they got mugged and stabbed multiple times and died in the hospital a couple weeks later. A person who becomes depressed or has other mental health issues causing suicidal thoughts is no more at fault than someone who gets mugged, and the hard truth is that sometimes all the medical help in the world isn't enough to save someone from a stab wound. It's even worse for mental health issues, because someone who was stabbed will always rush to get medical attention, but due to our fucked up societal views on mental illness tons of people who are depressed or have other issues don't seek help. They're walking around with what is essentially a mental stab wound and not seeking help due to a very reasonable fear of what people will think of them and say about them and how people will treat them for it, and those same people then have the gall to be upset with them when it ends in death. It's absurd. If I had to measure the balance of selfishness in the equation, I'd say the lesser weight definitely lies on the side of those who commit suicide. Those who decry and blame them are so much more selfish that it's not even a contest as far as I can see, and it's extremely hypocritical to boot"

Thank you for putting is so concisely. For a person to overcome the single most genetically hard coded instinct, to be able to override it you have to be pushed very, very far over the edge. That so many people even reach that point where suicide seems like a better option then life itself, is a collective failure of society. We as a collective, failed these people because as Jorrick stated: "It's even worse for mental health issues, because someone who was stabbed will always rush to get medical attention, but due to our fucked up societal views on mental illness tons of people who are depressed or have other issues don't seek help."

Hellis said -snip-

Just noting here, cause I've noticed this in almost every thread you posted in.
It would be easier to follow/respond to your posts if you used the quote button in the bottom right corner when replying to people's posts. It makes it easier to tell who exactly you're replying to.

Let me be clear about this subject. Not today, on the next day. But, some day I will take my own life. Now, some day my health will start to fail me. It can be that I am in pain all the time. It could be that my mind is starting to go. Or, I am just tired of you and everyone. Now I am an agnostic, so I do not think of a afterlife. Now if there was an afterlife and I did go to heaven -- I would be begging for suicide.

Think about it this way. Say I have cancer or some other illness that is going to kill me in say months. If I decide to end my life, you say it is weakness and you would say you will do whatever you need to do to keep me alive. If I told you the cost is $500,000 dollars or more to keep me alive. Is it not strange, society will spend so much money to keep me and others alive when death is so close to the end. On the other hand, if your going to college and you have over $100,000 in student loans. Society says to bad, just pay it back with interest. And with that student loan, you have a hard time to get a loan for house. Or, a loan to start a business. And if you do have a home, its hard to sell it to someone with a student loan they have to pay back. So, more people with student loans after college, the value of your house stays more flat because they have to pay a home loan and a student loan.

Is it not strange, if you go to college and have a student loan your long term net worth is cut by thousands of dollars over a lifetime. But, if your a old person near the end of your life. and have less then a high school education, society will be so glad to spend whatever it can to keep you alive. Even spend more then a four year college education. Now think of yourself with an identical twin at the age of 17. One twin has cancer and society will spend $500,000 or more knowing society will never get it back after the twin dies of cancer. The other twin, could go to college but if loaded with student loans, and the twins lifetime net worth is cut by thousands of dollars. And over a lifetime, could have paid back society in taxes.

Nope, if I have cancer and I know I am going to die -- I would accept suicide. In my hope, the cost to keep me alive could go to someone else with a grant to go to college. My life is over with, and just pushing on is being selfish. I would wish someone that is planing to go to college, can go to college for free. They life a long life and they produce something that is positive. For me, my suicide, is a good death.

TheNewGirl said
I understand.People say it's the "Coward's way out", there's nothing cowardly about going against every human instinct to survive. I wouldn't call it courage, and certainly not bravery, but it's something somewhat admirable.That's what makes it a tricky subject to comment upon.

I'm one of those people. and while it may not be strictly true in that actually taking your own life takes a certain level of willpower, I see is as the cowards way becuase said people would be better served using that willpower to face their problems and work through them. nothing, is EVER bad enough that taking ones own life is the best or even a viable course of action to take *. Sure it solves their problem, but it also creats more problems for everyone around them.

Take the old saying 'Where there's a will there's a way.' People who commit suicide obviously have willpower, they're just using it in the wrong manner.

* Note: Certain incurable and untreatable medical conditions aside, if death is more or less a certainty I see no reason to prolong any suffering. I don't count mental health issues because they can be overcome.

Gat said
nothing, is EVER bad enough that taking ones own life is the best or even a viable course of action to take *. Sure it solves their problem, but it also creats more problems for everyone around them.

It is clear you have never worked at a nursing home. Its a dumping ground for family members. Grandma gets old, her mind is now gone. She is now in a wheelchair screaming "Help me Help me Help me" and a staff member ask how can I help you. She just looks at you and is confused. You walk away and she starts screaming again. Or, your in a wheelchair and you go the bathroom and you do not even know it. And if you are a family member, and you know your grandma can be like that for years. Sons and daughters and other family members cannot take it -- and they refuse to come back. And when grandma health gets bad, they could take her to the hospital. But since the family members cannot stand looking at her. She ends up in the day room to hang around the fish tank, and the staff at the nursing station just watch her die. We can keep grandma alive a little bit longer, but we drop her in the day room to watch her die. Is that not suicide?

Sere said
It is clear you have never worked at a nursing home. Its a dumping ground for family members. Grandma gets old, her mind is now gone. She is now in a wheelchair screaming "Help me Help me Help me" and a staff member ask how can I help you. She just looks at you and is confused. You walk away and she starts screaming again. Or, your in a wheelchair and you go the bathroom and you do not even know it. And if you are a family member, and you know your grandma can be like that for years. Sons and daughters and other family members cannot take it -- and they refuse to come back. And when grandma health gets bad, they could take her to the hospital. But since the family members cannot stand looking at her. She ends up in the day room to hang around the fish tank, and the staff at the nursing station just watch her die. We can keep grandma alive a little bit longer, but we drop her in the day room to watch her die. Is that not suicide?

No.

Suicide is when a rational thinking being decides that their fear of being alive outweighs their fear of dying and goes for the great escape.

Euthenasia is when a rational thinking being knows that the quality of life they have left is going to be so terrible and such a burden on their family that they want a peaceful dignified death. Not to become a meat-shell going through the motions or a pure sac of agony.

YOUR utterly terrible mindless example is called "Criminal Neglect" or "Manslaughter"

I have struggled with suicidal thoughts frequently since (I think I wrote my first suicide note at) 9/10. I tried to tell my mother at 12 and she only seemed very annoyed. We never had the discussion again. I still suffer from it. My sister (about to be 14) threatened to kill herself and only then did my parents get her help. My mother often refuses to give her the medicines she's been prescribed and will yell at her for being ridiculous if she cries or feels depressed. My mother doesn't want sick children. She wants perfect children. Not that I've ever been good enough for her, my sister was always the favorite. But let me tell you I have never seen a child fall so far from grace so quickly. I will never tell my mother about how I feel, or what my ex did or things I've done because she would only be annoyed and disappointed.

THAT is selfish. I'm not saying suicide isn't selfish (I'll admit that it is), but it may not be the most selfish choice being made.

Kadaeux said
No.Suicide is when a rational thinking being decides that their fear of being alive outweighs their fear of dying and goes for the great escape.Euthenasia is when a rational thinking being knows that the quality of life they have left is going to be so terrible and such a burden on their family that they want a peaceful dignified death. Not to become a meat-shell going through the motions or a pure sac of agony.YOUR utterly terrible mindless example is called "Criminal Neglect" or "Manslaughter"

Is it? Is there really a difference between the two, or, is it just a play with words. How long must someone debate about their rational death that it does not become suicide but is a good death? What you call criminal neglect, is there a difference to watch someone die in a nursing home then same a prison? Both are covered by tax dollars. If I was a nurse and have the flu, one is in the nursing home and the other in a prison. If their life was so run down that my flu kills both, is it criminal neglect that they died. NO, because were do you stop. Reader, you could have had the common flu in your life, gave it to someone else and that person gave it to someone else that ended in death. Or, you could have had the flue, gave it to someone and never seen them again only for them to die some time latter.

The reason I support suicide at any time, as were going to die some time in our life. I can be a 100 year old woman and be killed by a 8 year old girl with a flu. Oh, you can come up with a rational reason for my death in that way. But, if I say I want to die in say my 20's and in good health, then it is not a rational reason to die. So, the rational reason to be alive is to pay taxes?

Skittlez said
I have struggled with suicidal thoughts frequently since (I think I wrote my first suicide note at) 9/10. I tried to tell my mother at 12 and she only seemed very annoyed. We never had the discussion again. I still suffer from it. My sister (about to be 14) threatened to kill herself and only then did my parents get her help. My mother often refuses to give her the medicines she's been prescribed and will yell at her for being ridiculous if she cries or feels depressed. My mother doesn't want sick children. She wants perfect children. Not that I've ever been good enough for her, my sister was always the favorite. But let me tell you I have never seen a child fall so far from grace so quickly. I will never tell my mother about how I feel, or what my ex did or things I've done because she would only be annoyed and disappointed.THAT is selfish. I'm not saying suicide isn't selfish (I'll admit that it is), but it may not be the most selfish choice being made.

I am bipolar, and I have received that story countless times. Mother and father do not like it when you talk about suicide because they feel its their bad DNA that made you think that way. My friend, eugenics is alive and well. The more you think about it, we just turn into life stock. Were just animals, nothing more and nothing less. Were just kept alive because someone feels they can make money off from us.

Skittlez said
I have struggled with suicidal thoughts frequently since (I think I wrote my first suicide note at) 9/10. I tried to tell my mother at 12 and she only seemed very annoyed. We never had the discussion again. I still suffer from it. My sister (about to be 14) threatened to kill herself and only then did my parents get her help. My mother often refuses to give her the medicines she's been prescribed and will yell at her for being ridiculous if she cries or feels depressed. My mother doesn't want sick children. She wants perfect children. Not that I've ever been good enough for her, my sister was always the favorite. But let me tell you I have never seen a child fall so far from grace so quickly. I will never tell my mother about how I feel, or what my ex did or things I've done because she would only be annoyed and disappointed.THAT is selfish. I'm not saying suicide isn't selfish (I'll admit that it is), but it may not be the most selfish choice being made.

A parent in denial about illness is a special kind of fucked up torture, absolutely. On the other hand, I rate that as child abuse -- so would almost any court in a developed world nation and in the US there is considerable case law establishing it as such. You should seek outside help or even court intervention if you must in order to get treatment. Parents are not allowed to withhold treatment from their children. That is at least one of several reasons a child can seek emancipation (and should.)

I can't imagine what it's like to have to stay ill because a parent goes into denial. And I've been ill enough to nearly be dead.

Kadaeux said
No.Suicide is when a rational thinking being decides that their fear of being alive outweighs their fear of dying and goes for the great escape. Euthenasia is when a rational thinking being knows that the quality of life they have left is going to be so terrible and such a burden on their family that they want a peaceful dignified death. Not to become a meat-shell going through the motions or a pure sac of agony.YOUR utterly terrible mindless example is called "Criminal Neglect" or "Manslaughter"

[2]

Sere said
Is it? Is there really a difference between the two, or, is it just a play with words. How long must someone debate about their rational death that it does not become suicide but is a good death? What you call criminal neglect, is there a difference to watch someone die in a nursing home then same a prison? Both are covered by tax dollars. If I was a nurse and have the flu, one is in the nursing home and the other in a prison. If their life was so run down that my flu kills both, is it criminal neglect that they died. NO, because were do you stop. Reader, you could have had the common flu in your life, gave it to someone else and that person gave it to someone else that ended in death. Or, you could have had the flue, gave it to someone and never seen them again only for them to die some time latter. The reason I support suicide at any time, as were going to die some time in our life. I can be a 100 year old woman and be killed by a 8 year old girl with a flu. Oh, you can come up with a rational reason for my death in that way. But, if I say I want to die in say my 20's and in good health, then it is not a rational reason to die. So, the rational reason to be alive is to pay taxes?

To clarify before I start, I'm one of the people defending suicide as not being a selfish act but rather a potential end result of an illness same as Cancer, heart failure etc.
But I do still have to disagree with the logic you are using on the topic of suicide.

Suicide = Concious decision to kill yourself because you dislike life
Euthenasia = Or (while sane & concious) or a Loved one, chooses to end your life after or right before you reach a vegetable state.
Criminal Neglect = Finding someone who is mentally ill and leaving them to die.

If anything Criminal neglect is to be related to murder, not suicide cause it's not the person whose life is ending having a say in the matter.
But even then it wouldn't count as murder if they are being provided for and cared for, it is simply a sad existence.

As for your flu example. The take this one step more to show the logic your using, Sally is a 6 year old girl. She decides she doesn't want to deal with the stresses of growing up and wants to kill herself. Is it not a rational reason to want to die?

HeySeuss said
A parent in denial about illness is a special kind of fucked up torture, absolutely. On the other hand, I rate that as child abuse -- so would almost any court in a developed world nation and in the US there is considerable case law establishing it as such. You should seek outside help or even court intervention if you must in order to get treatment. Parents are not allowed to withhold treatment from their children. That is at least one of several reasons a child can seek emancipation (and should.)I can't imagine what it's like to have to stay ill because a parent goes into denial. And I've been ill enough to nearly be dead.

[2]

Not allowing medications can be a serious crime. Personally I'm iffy and unsure about the effectiveness of said medications anyways, but if it is something you and/or your sister want to take for your depression and your parents won't allow it, then it's a valid reason to get court intervention on the matter.

This is a deep topic, and I've read so many different opinions and approach in this thread alone.

Suicide, for me, is a sad thing. It's not a matter of being tragic or selfish, but it is a sad thing, for the many reasons that has been covered the replies before me.
I don't think any of us could really judge whether someone who suicide is a selfish person or not, as it depended on many factors.

Although, to be honest, there is one kind of suicide case that I couldn't help but wanting to yell 'Stupid!' and 'Selfish!!' to the deceased.
I saw in the news couple years back, of someone who committed suicide in his boarding house, leaving a short suicide that basically said: "I love you, xxxx."
Why do I say it was stupid? The person named in the letter didn't even know that the deceased liked her. He never told her anything about it, or even hinting about liking her. If I remember correctly, the deceased still had family members (parents or siblings) at the time.
For case like this one... it's definitely tragic for the family, but I can't help thinking that it's a stupid reason for suicide, keeping in mind that he never once told her about his being attracted to her.
PS: He wasn't even that close to her, she only saw him as a passing acquaintance.

O.o

You know, I -also- stated that if a person wishes to die, and it's not from some emotional outburst but that they sincerely don't see the point to life, that it would be selfish to tell them that they're not allowed because it would hurt you right?

But no seriously it is absolutely child abuse (and clinically insane) to deny someone who is mentally unstable their medication, whether that be to treat suicidal depression or otherwise. This is the equivalent to telling someone who is in a wheelchair that they're not allowed access to their wheelchair. Of course they'll want to die--that's the one thing that lets them live.

On the other hand, I honestly think that if someone is recorded as to wish death upon themselves, for a prolonged period of time, and it's not from some emotional outburst (ex: teenage angst) but a serious desire to die... Let them go. Not everyone who is born wishes to live. That's just how life works.

ishtar said
This is a deep topic, and I've read so many different opinions and approach in this thread alone. Suicide, for me, is a sad thing. It's not a matter of being tragic or selfish, but it is a sad thing, for the many reasons that has been covered the replies before me.I don't think any of us could really judge whether someone who suicide is a selfish person or not, as it depended on many factors. Although, to be honest, there is one kind of suicide case that I couldn't help but wanting to yell 'Stupid!' and 'Selfish!!' to the deceased. I saw in the news couple years back, of someone who committed suicide in his boarding house, leaving a short suicide that basically said: "I love you, xxxx."Why do I say it was stupid? The person named in the letter didn't even know that the deceased liked her. He never told her anything about it, or even hinting about liking her. If I remember correctly, the deceased still had family members (parents or siblings) at the time. For case like this one... it's definitely tragic for the family, but I can't help thinking that it's a stupid reason for suicide, keeping in mind that he never once told her about his being attracted to her. PS: He wasn't even that close to her, she only saw him as a passing acquaintance.

Having no info outside of that, it's impossible to judge or say on the situation.
Hell, never is there enough info for outsiders to make a full judgement like that. No one else has a picture clear view of their life, nor do we know what's going on inside their head. He could of had valid reasons for wanting to die, or maybe he just suffered depression too long without help and suicide is just where he ended up as a result.

As for the letter to the woman, I think you're jumping to the conclusion that the girl is his reason for death.
It's likely she wasn't the reason, but he figured "You know what, I'm going to die now. I might as well tell her how I feel, I got no other chance to afterwards".

Magic Magnum said
Having no info outside of that, it's impossible to judge or say on the situation.Hell, never is there enough info for outsiders to make a full judgement like that. No one else has a picture clear view of their life, nor do we know what's going on inside their head. He could of had valid reasons for wanting to die, or maybe he just suffered depression too long without help and suicide is just where he ended up as a result.As for the letter to the woman, I think you're jumping to the conclusion that the girl is his reason for death.It's likely she wasn't the reason, but he figured "You know what, I'm going to die now. I might as well tell her how I feel, I got no other chance to afterwards".

I agree. It is possible that it's not all based on him liking the woman but also from several other causes. However, in regard of drawing conclusion, the news didn't mention any other messages or anything else that might become a 'trigger' for his suicide, and it was my honest reaction of feeling like yelling at him for that (The only conclusion I can get at that time).

People always said that there are 2 sides of a coin, a person's side and the other people's side. I also heard of this one: There are 3 sides/version of a story: My/said person's version, other people version and the truth. Unfortunately, the truth is usually almost impossible to get, not without all the facts, and even with all the facts we might still not see what the truth really is.

But to cut the long story, I'm still with my opinion before: Suicide is a sad thing.

Magic Magnum said
[2]To clarify before I start, I'm one of the people defending suicide as not being a selfish act but rather a potential end result of an illness same as Cancer, heart failure etc.But I do still have to disagree with the logic you are using on the topic of suicide.Suicide = Concious decision to kill yourself because you dislike lifeEuthenasia = Or (while sane & concious) or a Loved one, chooses to end your life after or right before you reach a vegetable state.Criminal Neglect = Finding someone who is mentally ill and leaving them to die.If anything Criminal neglect is to be related to murder, not suicide cause it's not the person whose life is ending having a say in the matter.But even then it wouldn't count as murder if they are being provided for and cared for, it is simply a sad existence.

Logic, with a deep topic like this. It would take thousands of words to take care of all lose ends. Still with logic, the sentence can be wrong but it is still logical. Like for example: "If the sun rise from the south then it will set in the north." We know that sentence is wrong, but written in a logical format.

I do not see the difference between the two. Lets say, we know that person A will die of a natural death on their 100 birthday. Is it just suicide because the person takes their life on their 20 birthday. Or, is in not suicide if they end their life when they are 99 years old? True, we do not know when a natural life comes to an end. With me, you are ending a life early.

You talk about someone that is left to die at a nursing home and see it as a crime. Hate to tell you this, it happens each and every day. The flu is a good example, as thousands of people die because of it. Death because of the flu is a natural death. If you are young, and you do have insurance you can get cured. If you are homeless, and you are young the flu should not kill you. True, it can get worse, and in that case they will pick up your body from under the bridge. And society will say, well you should have know better then being homeless. You should have gotten a job when we took away your housing and food stamps. You are dead, that was God's will so never question him.

See, someone can take away your Obama Cara, your Food Stamps, and if you die. Well it was not really suicide. We as a society just wanted you dead, so you can say for some people it was assisted suicide just to get votes from people that want their taxes cut. Is that criminal, no. Is that wrong, no.

Strange, society only cares about suicide if they feel they could have gained something from the person. What does society say, he was so young. He had his whole life ahead of him. He was so smart he could have done something with his life. He was a great guy. If a drunk that is homeless ends their life in suicide. They will say, oh some homeless guy jumped from a building and caused great damaged to the property below.

ishtar said Suicide is a sad thing.

I was never disagreeing with that.
I was arguing the point on that the person was stupid for committing suicide.

Sere said Logic, with a deep topic like this. It would take thousands of words to take care of all lose ends. Still with logic, the sentence can be wrong but it is still logical. Like for example: "If the sun rise from the south then it will set in the north." We know that sentence is wrong, but written in a logical format.

I should not even be responding, considering you basically ignored my entire post outside of the fact I used the word logic.
But this has so many assumptions, generalizations and conspiracies in it I feel the need to nip it in the bud.

Next time I'm going to bother replying unless the post actually relates to whatever post it is replying to.

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I used a simple word in the English language. There is no reason to try to act philosophical and make quotes over it.
That just makes no sense, like let's see...

Birthday, "Every year on your birthday, you get a chance to start new". You used the word Birthday in your post, but me picking that out and making a quote over it added nothing to the conversation. Please refrain from doing this in the future if it isn't going to contribute.

Sere said I do not see the difference between the two. Lets say, we know that person A will die of a natural death on their 100 birthday. Is it just suicide because the person takes their life on their 20 birthday. Or, is in not suicide if they end their life when they are 99 years old? True, we do not know when a natural life comes to an end. With me, you are ending a life early.

And is ending a life early not sad to you? The fact that someone could of had a fuller life, but felt so bad about living that they wanted to die?
Also to clarify, any case where someone dies by their own hands or initiative is suicide, regardless of age.

Sere said You talk about someone that is left to die at a nursing home and see it as a crime. Hate to tell you this, it happens each and every day. The flu is a good example, as thousands of people die because of it. Death because of the flu is a natural death. If you are young, and you do have insurance you can get cured.

First off, stuff like this happening? The fact it happens is obvious.
Your acting like because I argue technically it is murder, must mean I don't think it actually happens.
Hate to tell you this, but bad shit happens in this world. Crimes happen in this world, crimes we are aware of but are not always treated as a crime legally.

Sere said If you are homeless, and you are young the flu should not kill you. True, it can get worse, and in that case they will pick up your body from under the bridge. And society will say, well you should have know better then being homeless. You should have gotten a job when we took away your housing and food stamps. You are dead, that was God's will so never question him.

Generalizations much?

A lot of people do not look at homeless people and say "You should have gotten a job". People who do that simply prove their ignorance and lack of knowledge on the topic. Do some people think this way? Yes. But you're labeling society as a whole here.

Plus, for God's will.
This argument was already argued away with Protagonist. But I'll repeat generally, God existing it or not is not a prove able fact. Many people do not worship God, or at least the same God you do. It is inaccurate to using reasoning's involving God in a non-religious issue such as suicide.

Sere said See, someone can take away your Obama Cara, your Food Stamps, and if you die. Well it was not really suicide. We as a society just wanted you dead, so you can say for some people it was assisted suicide just to get votes from people that want their taxes cut. Is that criminal, no. Is that wrong, no.

Strange, society only cares about suicide if they feel they could have gained something from the person. What does society say, he was so young. He had his whole life ahead of him. He was so smart he could have done something with his life. He was a great guy. If a drunk that is homeless ends their life in suicide. They will say, oh some homeless guy jumped from a building and caused great damaged to the property below.

First off, most of us are not american.
We are not affected by stuff like Obama Care, we have general health care that applies to all citizens.

Also, society is not a hive mind. We are not consciously going "We want ______ dead. Let's as a society cut them off from help and kill them".
Let's leave government and society conspiracy theories to kill people off separate please? They do not relate to suicide or depression.

I'm sorry that whatever you experience has caused you to look at all of society under such a light. But that is not how society functions, and treating society/the people in it as if they do isn't accurate and only slows down the rate we can deal with issues like depression and suicide because we are burning efforts fighting something that does not exist.