@clanjos

Did you want to take wolf up on his offer to retcon the bomb throwing or do you have your heart set on sparking a feud with Jenk that will last the entirety of this campaign?

As per my last post, "let's go with the retcon"

@clanjos Sorry, which part did you want to retcon? I don't see a particular 'last post' you may be referring to. Do you mean that you want to retcon the bomb throwing action, or do you want to retcon Starfinger's research field from Chirurgeon to Bomber?

Tomorrow I'll post up a response post to Saur's attempt to pacify the Flash Beetle.

Ah, the retcon I noticed was changing an the bomb's target from the pacified Flash 4 to throwing the bomb at Flash 2, is that what you meant? That one's been acknowledged already. Or is it that you made that choice without realizing it would cause damage to Saur and Jenk since you were seemed kinda tired at the time and want to go back on that?

Because I also am not seeing a post mentioning any other kind of retcon.

Note that I don't mind Saur taking 1 HP of damage since it's basically nothing. And as a fan of interparty conflict, I--as a player--have no problems with having Saur be angry at Starfinger for it. Imo, it'll make it far more satisfying when they inevitably end up working together to take on whatever boss fight is likely at the end of this module. Same story with Fleur, I love it when party members are from different walks of life and have such conflicting ideals. Aaas long as all the players keep in mind that it is strictly IC behavior and no shade is ever actually being thrown at the other players~

And personally, I actually like this take on the situation. Interparty conflict that doesn't involve actual combat between PCs, likely due to differences in the way the characters learned to do things. And as a special bonus for me, I get to also show the other party members a side of Saur they hadn't gotten to see~ But my character is different from Rush's, so I can only speak for me xD

That said, I'm also fine with editing my post if necessary, since his response will be VERY different if the frost vial never got thrown. I just need to know if I need to edit before we move too far along.

Though I'd request that we try to refrain from making major retcons like this so late after the post was made. It kinda makes things a bit confusing even in a live game. I'd be okay with it here since: 1. it's the first time we are considering a major retcon, 2. There aren't really any actual damage numbers to have to worry about and 3. these latest posts went up so quickly that there wasn't really any time to think about whether you might want to retcon it or not when it first happened.

TL;DR - Due to the circumstances, I don't mind having to edit my post this time--since I WILL have to edit my post and change Saur's reactions if that bomb was never flung--if that's what Clan wants to do here. But I really don't want to make it a habit of changing actions a few posts down the line if possible because it'd be kind of a pain in more complex combats.

@Digizel Makes total sense. I was offering the retcon to be done in the moment, and I think that moment is growing stale.

@clanjos If you want to make a change we'll give you until 48 hours from my clarifying question: roleplayerguild.com/posts/5577537

Otherwise, I'm going to post up a response today with the result of Saur's attempt to pacify and then we'll go from there.

@Digizel@clanjos@vertigo@rush99999@patientbean

One more note for expediancy in future battles:

Please roll damage on your attack and post it with your Attack roll so that I don't need to wait and see what to deduct from an enemy if you do hit it. It will just make things a bit faster for responses. If you don't hit, no harm, no foul.

@clanjos Sorry, which part did you want to retcon? I don't see a particular 'last post' you may be referring to. Do you mean that you want to retcon the bomb throwing action, or do you want to retcon Starfinger's research field from Chirurgeon to Bomber?

Tomorrow I'll post up a response post to Saur's attempt to pacify the Flash Beetle.

Let's just retcon the bomb throwing action. Starfinger's probably most handy as a heal jockey or dealing with mindless foes.

Alrighty, if the change is just bomb isn't getting thrown, but the pellet was still shot, I probably won't have to change too much. Actions will still be the same on my end though, I'll just have to change up how Saur acts and what he said~

Or I'm fine with just not doing that and then just pretending like it never happened IC and not bother actually writing a different scene. However we want to handle the retcon is fine by me, but I'll await Wolf's answer before I bother xD

@clanjos Sounds good! I'll edit the reaction posts. You didn't mention an action taken instead, so I'll assume Starfinger just held his action.

@Digizel If you do not feel like editing IC, that's fine!

I have struck out the lines referring to the Frost Vial bomb, but left them in for posterity.

The floor goes to the group! What will they do now?

Quick pulse check/retro on the first combat:

How does everyone feel about how it went, how fast it went, the kinds of detail I gave in response, did you like having me post images of the battle grid, etc. Any feedback is appreciated to make it better. Rolling damage with attacks is one example of a takeaway. Another would be the 48 hours between turns resulting in a Delay free action, until the end of the next character/enemy's turn.

Anything you would like to see changed?

I mean this was my first time doing combat in this instance. I expected it to be more slow-paced. If it could be quicker that may be good, but overall I think we did fine.

Yeah I think I agree with Bean on this. Once we had things worked out, it seemed to run pretty well~ The only takeaway I think I care about besides those two would be future combat retcons and trying to avoid them if possible. Trying to understand how to make them is definitely going to significantly slow things down. xD

Because of aphantasia, I do appreciate the battle maps being brought up after every turn and a brief summary of the changes in the battle. It's hard to say how well it'll be run when we get into more complex combats where we are actually FIGHTING our enemies, but I think what we did here works~

OH, actually, a thought I had. I know we as players aren't supposed to know how much HP an enemy has or anything like that, but it might be a good idea to track some things that we know in the summary part of the DM posts. Like for instance, how much damage has been clocked on each target that we're aware of, if there are any active conditions in play, whatever damage resistances and immunities we have in play.... Maybe even a very brief summary of the party's current plan of attack if one has been stated, just in case a situation like Clan's comes up again where they feel pressured to post mid-combat, but are just really struggling to find the time. Reading through a lot of text all at once can seem kind of daunting, but if they just had to read the summary section of the DM post to understand what the party is trying to do without the RP and descriptive fluff, then it might help.

I know that's a bit of extra work on the DM's part, but...

So I apologize if this has been answered but if I wanted to roll for something like, say, investigating the office, do I put that request in with a roll in the OOC or the IC? Or does it not matter?

The only takeaway I think I care about besides those two would be future combat retcons and trying to avoid them if possible.

This makes total sense. We're all adults here and presumably understand the consequences of the actions we take in character, but I do want to offer a little leighway in the cases where a player may not fully grasp the implications of the action they're taking. If we were sitting across from each other at the table, I would do the same thing: "Are you sure you want to subject your teammates to splash damage?" I feel like the alternative feels like a "Gotcha" from the DM where I just announce the friendly fire.

As a rule, though, I heartily agree on there being as-little-to-no retcons during combat since we pick up the pace.

Like for instance, how much damage has been clocked on each target that we're aware of, if there are any active conditions in play, whatever damage resistances and immunities we have in play....

These are good notes. I can list how much damage enemies have taken beside their initiative order summary, as well as conditions there (like Saur being Dazzled).

Maybe even a very brief summary of the party's current plan of attack if one has been stated...

Hmm, on this point I'm less convinced. Saur's plan of attack may not be shared between the rest of the group. Reading the replies in this game is the responsibility of every player--it's why we're here! I think maybe we should leave it up to the player to ask in OOC if tactics have been discussed, if they are really pressed for time. Maybe a summary location where strategies have been posited and by whom is a fair compromise.

So I apologize if this has been answered but if I wanted to roll for something like, say, investigating the office, do I put that request in with a roll in the OOC or the IC? Or does it not matter?

So that is a fantastic question! Blind GM rolls are a common discussion in DnD and P2e. An investigation roll could be a blind GM roll, where I roll for you and tell you what Fleur might find in the area. This concept is predicated on the idea of eliminating metagaming. If you know you rolled a nat 1 for Fleur's Perception check, you may be tempted to try again, or not believe me when I tell you that you don't spot anything out of the ordinary.

This is a good opportunity for us to discuss this here as a group. Do players care to have Blind GM rolls for Perception-based rolls? If everyone would like to roll their own Perception, we can totally do that, and I'll keep an eye on metagaming.

My go-to has been to have Blind GM rolls for Perception, but I still like having the players roll the dice (just not looking at the result, which would be harder on RPG).

As a note, I wouldn't change Blind GM rolls for things like Recall Knowledge where I may need to lie to you depending on your roll ^_^.

@PatientBean As far as Fleur goes for right now, Investigation is a focused activity. You could Search the room with a Perception check (feel free to roll in your post), and when/if you find something of note, then you can Investigate it with another check.

Also, yeah you could totally put that request here in OOC or in IC.

but I do want to offer a little leighway in the cases where a player may not fully grasp the implications of the action they're taking. If we were sitting across from each other at the table, I would do the same thing: "Are you sure you want to subject your teammates to splash damage?" I feel like the alternative feels like a "Gotcha" from the DM where I just announce the friendly fire.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I suppose I was more referring to major retcons from a number of turns ago. If a minor retcon like that has to happen, I believe it should be resolved before the next DM post goes up. But yeah, stuff like that I'm totally fine with~

Hmm, on this point I'm less convinced. Saur's plan of attack may not be shared between the rest of the group. Reading the replies in this game is the responsibility of every player--it's why we're here! I think maybe we should leave it up to the player to ask in OOC if tactics have been discussed, if they are really pressed for time. Maybe a summary location where strategies have been posited and by whom is a fair compromise.

Yeah, I certainly get that. I was definitely thinking about how in a live game, people would be talking above board about what the plan of attack is and whether or not each individual character would be privy to the plan. That situation is a little more messy in a PBP format like this where everybody's circumstances are different. But I think overall, I'm fine with the answer being no. Asking above board on the OOC thread is a good enough idea for me~ It certainly doesn't take even a minute to ask the question, so I've got no problem leaving it at that.

This is a good opportunity for us to discuss this here as a group. Do players care to have Blind GM rolls for Perception-based rolls? If everyone would like to roll their own Perception, we can totally do that, and I'll keep an eye on metagaming.

Honestly, I really do like rolling the dice myself. It's what most tables I've ever played at do, and just expect players to not play with the meta knowledge and only have characters act on what they reasonably know. I definitely get the point of blind DM rolling though, because not everybody is good at keeping the bias out of their characters' thoughts. It has their ups and their downs.

If you do blind DM rolling, then it means you as the DM have to roll a lot more and are constantly going to have to go back and forth referencing everybody's character sheets, checking for feats that cover things, circumstance bonuses, etc. It also removes the excitement of hitting a high roll if we don't know what we rolled, and only get the result. But it removes those biases from the equation.

If you don't do blind DM rolling and let everybody else do the rolling for them and somebody knows they critically failed, then it does lead to those biases. But at the same time, everybody only has to keep track of their own stat sheet and only have to confirm which check to make.

I'm always in favor of having players roll the dice themselves and just kinda reminding them to not act on the idea that they probably failed (especially when it comes to stealth vs perception; even if you think you rolled poorly, you never know when the other guy could just also roll really badly). I just really like knowing my personal results so I can feel that excitement or disappointment. xD

So my vote goes for that, but I'm not against the alternative either.

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On an unrelated note, I noticed an issue with Pathbuilder. When I modify my sheet, like when Saur took damage before or when I gave him those elixirs, it didn't save the changes on the sheet posted in the characters tab. Rather, it saved a completely new version of the same character. So if you click Saur's sheet, you can see that he still has 20 HP and no elixirs in his gear list.

But I updated it before and I got this new CS instead. On this, you can see he has taken 8 damage and has the 2 elixirs on hand.

Anybody know if there's a way to change this? Is this just a setting I can change somewhere that I'm just not seeing...? Or should we just put our CS's in the Characters tab in our own posts and update them as we go?

@Digizel In reference to the Pathbuilder issue, yeah, I've noticed this as an issue, too. I was planning on just having you manage your CS, as you would at the table. I wouldn't be looking over your shoulder to see what your current HP is. I'm not sure if there's a paid setting or something to fix this issue, but to me, it's not that big a deal. I'm not going to police HP. If I know this should have knocked Saur, I'll ask for his HP and we can talk it out there. I don't think we need to worry about cheating or fibbing or anything like that.

Regarding the rolls, I'm happy to have Perception rolled by players.

I was more referring to all rolls and used Investigation as an example. Like if I asked for an Arcane roll do I roll and then put it in my post or do so in OOC before I post so I can add if I found anything or not. I get wanting to hold people accountable so we don't just get the good rolls.

@PatientBean It depends on what you want to do. I've seen others ask here then I'll respond here. But either way works to be honest.

It's a little bit slower, but I think it works best to ask if a roll is applicable here in OOC (or even just asking what roll you WOULD make to get a certain wanted result, or if there even IS a role you can possibly make)...and then roll when you get the confirmation. It keeps things relatively easy to keep track of.

Plus, nothing is more disappointing than rolling a nat20 on a check you weren't supposed to make anyway, and it also eliminates that possibility xP

In fact, now that I think about it, maybe even attack and damage rolls should be done in OOC before a character's post is actually made, since combat can sometimes be very context sensitive. If your first strike downs a target, you're not gonna make a second strike on that target. And there might be nobody else in your range, so you need to do something else with your two remaining actions. Getting the flow of your turn ironed out before your post means you can now carry it out and flavor all of that however you want when you go to actually write your post, putting whatever little flourishes you want on the scene.

@Digizel These are great points that could speed up the game. @patientbean Let me amend my statement. If you want to roll something, let me know here in OOC and we can talk out what Fleur could possibly roll. For instance, if you tried to roll an Arcana check to Search the room, I'd have to say, "Sorry, Arcana isn't applicable here" and then we'd go back and forth for a bit (not saying you WOULD suggest this).

Thanks for helping make the game smoother with everyone's feedback.

For the future, if you want to make a roll, ask here first (Search, Investigate, Attack, etc.) and I can reply.