If only that goal was achievable... *sigh*

Vortex said
Ahem... *points to Ukraine*

Ahem, Liechtenstein: Without military since 1868. Surrounded by Switzerland and Austria. Still it's own country.

Vortex, maybe you should pay attention to the context of what people are talking about. Jannah made it seem as though any country without some form of military defense, would just be invaded and taken over...just cause another country could do it. I was pointing out that, factually, this shit just doesn't happen.

Russia and Ukraine/Crimea have not been neutral or anything other than mildly tense since Crimea became part of Ukraine. There is far more going on in that situation than Russia just doing shit "Cause we can, lol!" To even suggest otherwise, is....painfully ignorant.

Again, if Canada, the USA, France, etc just dropped their entire military....do you honestly think any neighboring country is just going to decide, "Well, might as well take them over for shits and giggles..."?

Vortex said
Russia annexed ukraine, so it's too late tore claim it. If they wanted to keep it they should have just kept it

Ukraine wasn't annexed. Crimea wasn't either. It's majority ethnic Russian and actually was Russian territory up until Khrushchev gave it to what was the Ukrainian SSR.

Also, Liechtenstein is a poor example since it's surrounded by one of the most neutral countries in the world, Switzerland.

Jannah said
Ukraine wasn't annexed. Crimea wasn't either. It's majority ethnic Russian and actually was Russian territory up until Khrushchev gave it to what was the Ukrainian SSR.Also, Liechtenstein is a poor example since it's surrounded by one of the most neutral countries in the world, Switzerland.

It is not surrounded by Switzerland. It borders Austria as well.

Austria in the past has been demonstrably non-neutral. So, please justify your point with rationale, facts, or something that amounts to more than, "because I believe it to be so." That point being that; any country without a military, will be invaded and conquered by a neighbor, with no more reason than because it can, in this modern age.

Goldmarble said Any country without a military, will be invaded and conquered by a neighbour, with no more reason than because it can, in this modern age.

There are numerous countries with no standing military that haven't been invaded/conquered by a neighbour.

Jannah said
Ukraine wasn't annexed. Crimea wasn't either. It's majority ethnic Russian and actually was Russian territory up until Khrushchev gave it to what was the Ukrainian SSR.Also, Liechtenstein is a poor example since it's surrounded by one of the most neutral countries in the world, Switzerland.

Crimea was annexed by the Russian Federation. Whether you believe the annexation to be legitimate or reasonable is entirely irrelevant. It occurred regardless of your beliefs on its legality, since the action of annexation is independent of the reasoning therefore.

an·nex (ə-nĕks′, ăn′ĕks′)
tr.v. an·nexed, an·nex·ing, an·nex·es
1. To append or attach, especially to a larger or more significant thing.
2. To incorporate (territory) into an existing political unit such as a country, state, county, or city.
3. To add or attach, as an attribute, condition, or consequence.

Crimea, a piece of territory, was incorporated into an exiting political unit: Russia.

The Nexerus said
There are numerous countries with no standing military that haven't been invaded/conquered by a neighbour.

Not sure if you know, I know that. Jannah was saying otherwise.

Goldmarble said Again, if Canada, the USA, France, etc just dropped their entire military....do you honestly think any neighboring country is just going to decide, "Well, might as well take them over for shits and giggles..."?

What we've seen from the aggressive draw-down of American forces is that countries become more willing to go to war with one another (and/or civil war). Not because of the drawdown -- that's a silly thought -- but more 'in light of' the opportunity, they're ready to roll the dies. Notable examples are Arab Spring culminating in Syria; Russia in Georgia and Crimea; Iran's nuclear saga; etc.

mdk said
What we've seen from the aggressive draw-down of American forces is that countries become more willing to go to war with one another (and/or civil war). Not of the drawdown -- that's a silly thought -- but more 'in light of' the opportunity, they're ready to roll the dies. Notable examples are Arab Spring culminating in Syria; Russia in Georgia and Crimea; Iran's nuclear saga; etc.

And these are existing issues that have been part of these countries history for years. Secondly, this Arab Spring...is it really tied in any way to the drawdown of American forces, or is it something that has been coming for years and just happened to coincide with the same time frame? Would it happen regardless of the state of the US military? I believe it would. Course, at this point, that's only pure speculation with little understanding of how the situation in all of the involved countries has been developing since the 70s, or earlier.

Time to revive the thread.

Speaking of the Arab spring and such I've been thinking very similar events happened in the prologue to WWI do you think a similar thing may happen? I'm not saying it will and I'm hoping it doesn't so humanity can prove that it's better then cavemen throwing rocks at each other (or nukes in our case, and are slightly more deadly) but I'm simply asking for your thoughts.

Vortex said
Time to revive the thread.Speaking of the Arab spring and such I've been thinking very similar events happened in the prologue to WWI do you think a similar thing may happen? I'm not saying it will and I'm hoping it doesn't so humanity can prove that it's better then cavemen throwing rocks at each other (or nukes in our case, and are slightly more deadly) but I'm simply asking for your thoughts.

No, it's somewhat of an irresponsible association to draw. We're trained to believe that history is a repeating cycle, so when, say, Russia invades Crimea, I could say 'Just like Germany did to Austria, huh.' Immediately you're thinking of Putin in relation to Hitler, which is unfair (most of the time).

If anything, Arab Spring is going to shuffle the dictator deck a bit. This happened a ton in Latin America, and nothing really came of it, outside the countries themselves..... Of course there are countries (not the US, really) which rely on ME oil imports, so the stakes are a bit higher, but everyone has an embassy now, they're working on it.

Goldmarble said Secondly, this Arab Spring...is it really tied in any way to the drawdown of American forces, or is it something that has been coming for years and just happened to coincide with the same time frame?

A little from column A, a little from column B. My general rule is that everything influences everything. For all we plebs know, the drawdown happened because upper leadership was worried about Arab Spring happening, instead of the other way around. Logistically speaking though, it's always easier to overfly Turkey when you have a air base in Turkey. I can't imagine that the non-state actors were oblivious to our strategic changes -- if our withdrawal *didn't* have a major impact then they're idiots, but I give them a bit more credit than that.

Mmm forgot bout the history cycle, guess your right

:c

Turt -- I'm gasping from shock :D

Oh good! Another member of the green!

Yes! Yes! Come into the green fold!

Turtlicious said
:c

Man, that's so far left.

Here comes another green.

So many members of the green! Wear the green with pride comrades!

I was actually expecting even worse from a writing website.