This is a somewhat odd request, but Spam, I need your help getting perspective.
I'm 17. I have no real concept of large sums of money, and my parents are terrible examples of good financial policy. I can learn through the experiences of others, though.
As I mentioned a while back, I got into Imperial College London. It's one of the best unis in the world, and I'm super fucking chuffed. I'd go there without question, but for one issue: holy shit, moneyz. I'd be leaving with something like 50000 GBP worth of debt (around $83000), minimum.
Or I could go to St. Andrews (3rd oldest uni in the world, where Prince William and Kate went, etc. etc.) or Edinburgh (top-20 in the world uni), and leave with virtually no debt by comparison.
Now, Imperial outclasses those institutions, by a wide margin, and there's virtually no better place for me to kickstart my career in academia. But I need to get some more perspective on how much money that is, more than just "a lot", so I can see if it's worth it. If you guys can offer any advice or any way for me to get a grip on this, as a bunch of adulty people, I'd appreciate it. If not, well, derail the thread as you guys always do!

well son, you're used to messing with like two pieces of bacon. but for that shit, you're going epic meal time fucking bacon. like, 25 packs of fucking bacon, with is a fuck ton of fucking bacon son.

which means that shit is gonna be stapled to your bills for most of your adult life. that's a lot of fucking bacon son.

Ask drakle he program you something to calculate what best.

Or die trying.

I'm graduating with a lot of debt, personally. Which I view as okay for now, since I am planning on using my degree.

NOW-

I'd look at the University, call, read, write, whatever, and find out what their take on financial aid is like. Here in the US we have FAFSA, which is government supplied loans based on family situations. Look into grants, scholarships, fellowships, etc that might be offered through your university. I'm sure there are also outside places you can look to apply for scholarships based on merit/interest/etc. If you need help on searching for these, I'm more than willing and can direct you a couple places to go to look for opportunities.

Best of luck!

That is quite a large amount of debt to have hanging over your head when you're really just trying to start your life, but you really have to weigh it against other choices you intend to make to see if it's worth it or not.

1.) What field of work do you intend to go into? Since it's a good university, I'd expect it to be something that will eventually earn you an adequate living. Now, let's say you come out and get a job right off the bat (best case scenario) -- how much do you think you'd be making each month? Will it be enough to pay for your basic necessities (i.e. food, living arrangements, bills, etc.) AND still be able to pay down your debt in any significant way? (You want to be able to pay off more than your minimum payment each month because otherwise it'll mostly go towards interest and not towards the principal balance on the loans. You'll be in debt for a wicked long time and wind up paying way more if you're only making minimum monthly payments.)

2.) Once out of school, what's your next goal? Is it to settle down and buy a house? With that sort of debt it'll be unlikely you'll be able to buy a house for quite some time. (No bank worth their salt is going to loan you money when you have that high of a debt already.) If this is something you're interested in doing relatively soon after (meaning within the next 5 years or so, depending on how quickly you can pay down the debt), you may want to opt for the less expensive school.

3.) Does the more expensive school have a job placement program to help make sure you'll definitely have a job to go to once you graduate? I can't tell you how many people I know that have excellent degrees and then got out of school only to find there was little to nothing available for them when they went out applying. If the school offers help in placement, then that could potentially be worth the extra debt, depending on how adamant you are about working in your chosen field. (Obviously, if you have no debt when you get out of the less expensive school then you can bide your time a little more at a menial job while you search for your dream position. If you have high debt, though, you're not going to have that much luxury to do so.)

4.) How are you with handling money in general? Do you find yourself able to budget reasonably well? (With the smaller amounts you have handled, I mean.) Are you always scrounging for cash? Do you have any savings to speak of? (However small it might be?) If you think you'd be able to put together a budget and really stick to it, then the debt is definitely much less scary. If you're constantly strapped for cash, have no idea how to put together a savings plan, or have ever really had issues covering bills, that debt is going to be a BIG deal for you to have to tackle without having any experience to really help you out.

If you're serious about potentially taking on that amount of debt, you'd be smart to start looking at your finances in a serious way and trying to make a budget for yourself based off of whatever income source you have at the moment. (Even if it's just listing out things like: cellphone bill, car insurance, clothing budget, entertainment allotment, etc = X amount per month for all necessities. Above and beyond that, I will shoot to set aside $10 every week into a savings account and I will not touch that money, except for real emergencies. Creating a small budget plan can help to start put you in the right mindset that you'll need to be disciplined about paying back the sort of debt you're thinking about taking on. You really, really need to be disciplined or you'll ruin your credit quite quickly, which can make it difficult to do so many other things in life. Srsly.)

Honestly, if this were my choice, I'd probably go to one of the slightly lesser schools and be without the debt. (Hey, if it's good enough for the royal family, right? XD) School can be stressful enough without that scary figure looming in the background, waiting for you finish so that it can consume you afterwards. I can definitely understand the appeal of going to a super elite school -- I mean it's definitely a huge ego boost for you and it'll look great on paper -- but what else will it offer you besides that? Is it going to give you a better advantage (such as a placement program, like I was mentioning earlier) or is it really just a superficial "better school" and you're just paying all that extra money for the privilege of associating yourself with the name of the school. (Think of expensive designer clothing -- take a $5 blue teeshirt and slap a D&G logo on it, then you can instantly tack on extra zeros to the original price tag. You pay for the brand name, not the quality of the item.)

Anyway, all my two cents.

To be honest, I'd accept the offer to the universities that won't leave you with nearly $100,000 in debt, especially when they're already that prestigious. That's the kind of money that would pay off an entire small house/ trailer out here in Alberta, and considering I make shy of $70,000 a year, and I put the $20,000 I had in inheritance into a reliable truck, I still am nowhere near close to making up the amount of money that truck cost. Living is expensive, as is actually doing anything that goes beyond the essentials of living. I'm looking at saving up another $20-$40 thousand just to put a deposit down on a house so I can move out of this apartment, and I have no idea how long that will take without doing some serious hard crunching of numbers. The thing is, I've had an extremely lucky break in life (outside of medical issues, but that's not important to this) and I have no debt I'm paying off and the money I'm trying to saving is daunting. I'm probably looking at least a decade worth of hard saving to still live comfortably and have enough money to pay off that down deposit, and I'm not saddled with a soul-crushing debt.

Honestly, sure, it's cool to say you went to one of the best universities in the world, but ultimately it all depends on YOU getting a job. Unless you're certain there's enough work in your field of interest (something to do with physics, if I recall right), you may only have a piece of paper to show for the vast amount of time and wealth you put into your education. Will this school get you a better job or position than one of the other universities, or will the end result be exactly the same? If the latter's the case, go with that. It's still extremely prestigious and you can start getting ahead in life instead of paying off a horrific loan into your 70s. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not live my entire life wondering if I'm going to make ends meet or not being able to afford to do fun things with my youth. The thing you gotta ask yourself is this; if you put in all the time, and effort, and money you've ever earned into an education to become some fancy pants rocket scientist (or whatever), and you find yourself in your 40s or 50s, could you look back at all the things you turned down or never did because you favoured your education over the rest of your life and still think it was worth it? If you only start making a profit for your investment into your middle age, what kinds of experiences did you never get to do? It's a seriously hard question you have to ask yourself, especially if you aren't 100% sure if you have a career waiting for you right at the end of your education. It all depends on what you want to get out of life.

I did a one year fast track certificate in college (which was founded in 1967, which I might point out, is nowhere near as ancient as the places you got accepted to) which I paid for up front with the money I saved from the army, worked my ass off in dead-end retail jobs to take the test to earn my Operator in Training License to get into water treatment/ wastewater management which is a HIGHLY demanded field that lets me literally work wherever I want in the country, and then I put in my time, kept applying to jobs, and moved across the country to where I am now, a place that pays fantastically well, has amazing benefits, wonderful people to work with, and they give a shit about family and work life balance. I also am playing a huge role in people's communities, providing an essential service that they depend on to survive. That to me is way more important than having my name recorded in the history books, or potentially discovering a new planet or winning a Nobel prize or whatever. I don't have to worry about affording to live, I can go out and enjoy my weekends, drive out to the mountains on a whim, go on a vacation somewhere new and exciting, visit my family across the country, visit my family in another country, and be happy and really satisfied. I am a really, really lucky individual and I honestly am really happy with where my life is now. I made it, and it was a hard road I put a lot of work into but I did it smart, so I had a quicker pay off. I'm way ahead of almost everyone I know in my graduating class, and most of the people with the higher education are having an impossible time finding work for what they went to university for. When you have people with bachelor's degrees managing Burger Kings because there's nothing else that's available, you have a system that royally failed an entire generation's potential.

What you need to ask yourself is what you want to get out of life, and what you're willing to give up for it. No matter what the school name is on that diploma, it's still at the end of the day a stepping stone to a career, and at the end of the day, it's just a name. As I said before, if it gets you access to the same doors, why saddle yourself with a crippling debt?

$83,000

After interest, more like 100k

100,000 a year, is 5 new cars.

It's paying 200 a month for 40 years.

It's the down payment on a house.

hth

My brother went to Toro at NYU. He is a lawyer. He has nearly half a million dollars in debt. 83,000 is nothing. Get the education you have earned and fuck the money. It is a fictional fixation industry creates to keep you scurred. Enjoy your life and let your kids pay for it when you're dead.

Halo said
This is a somewhat odd request, but Spam, I need your help getting perspective.
I'm 17. I have no real concept of large sums of money, and my parents are terrible examples of good financial policy. I can learn through the experiences of others, though.
As I mentioned a while back, I got into Imperial College London. It's one of the best unis in the world, and I'm super fucking chuffed. I'd go there without question, but for one issue: holy shit, moneyz. I'd be leaving with something like 50000 GBP worth of debt (around $83000), minimum.
Or I could go to St. Andrews (3rd oldest uni in the world, where Prince William and Kate went, etc. etc.) or Edinburgh (top-20 in the world uni), and leave with virtually no debt by comparison.
Now, Imperial outclasses those institutions, by a wide margin, and there's virtually no better place for me to kickstart my career in academia. But I need to get some more perspective on how much money that is, more than just "a lot", so I can see if it's worth it. If you guys can offer any advice or any way for me to get a grip on this, as a bunch of adulty people, I'd appreciate it. If not, well, derail the thread as you guys always do!

See when you came on here talking about how you were going to Imperial College I had assumed you meant you had gotten a scholarship. World-class, private colleges use their selectivity as an excuse to bump the prices up ridiculously. IMO as far as actually learning the stuff, it really doesn't matter which college you go to or the quality of education they are known for. Shit, you could learn pretty much everything needed for any career on your own if you had the drive. What you should really be worried about is how the college will look on your resume.

Now you're wanting to get into a career in theoretical physics if I remember right, so you can damn well bet that which college you can brag about going to will have a huge effect on your work life, a lot of your work will probably come from schools as well. So it would be in your best interest to get educated at the most respected college you can, trying to get as many scholarships as you can, and deal with the dept.

But also consider whether you truly want to immediately devote yourself to theoretical physics like this, you'll be financially fucked if you start with a high-priced college only to find you can't handle the workload or simply don't like the field. Remember that you can always go back to college as well, so you could first get a cheaper degree in a less demanding research/science field (If your love is with science, and not just physics) or perhaps engineering or computer science (Which would give you practical physics experience) before you jump into the big leagues of theoretical physics. To me, theoretical physics seems like an advanced degree most scholars would get after already having a few other degrees under their belt.

InspectorGadget said
My brother went to Toro at NYU. He is a lawyer. He has nearly half a million dollars in debt. 83,000 is nothing. Get the education you have earned and fuck the money. It is a fictional fixation industry creates to keep you scurred. Enjoy your life and let your kids pay for it when you're dead.

Great advice if you want your resentful children to dump your withered corpse in an unmarked grave.

Dervish said
Great advice if you want your resentful children to dump your withered corpse in an unmarked grave.

[2]. That's literally the worst advice I've ever heard, I think.

As for everyone else - firstly, thank you for all taking the time and making the effort to reply in such detail. I've been reading the replies, so know I'm not ignoring you guys - I've just been working past 2am almost every day for the past week, so I haven't had as much time to reply and such. I will get back soon. Thanks guys!

The amount of debt is half of the issue. The interest rate is the other (some would say, more important) half.

You're going to have expenses over the course of your life, so debt is not ***necessarily*** bad. UNCONTROLLABLE debt is the worst thing ever.

Rule of thumb, don't get into a situation where you can't afford to save 10% of your salary. That means that regular living expenses, bills, taxes, debt payments and fun add up to 90% or less of your income. It's a good habit to knock off another 5-10% for charitable giving of your choice. If your anticipated income is just enough to cover all of this in an acceptable way.... don't do it. If your anticipated income is enough to cover all this and have room to spare, go ahead. You want to be able to exceed minimum payments on just about everything, to minimize total interest.

Sidenote, work during uni, bank more, pay as much as you can in cash. Lowering the 'principle' is exponentially better than paying down with interest later.

Halo said
This is a somewhat odd request, but Spam, I need your help getting perspective.
I'm 17. I have no real concept of large sums of money, and my parents are terrible examples of good financial policy. I can learn through the experiences of others, though.
As I mentioned a while back, I got into Imperial College London. It's one of the best unis in the world, and I'm super fucking chuffed. I'd go there without question, but for one issue: holy shit, moneyz. I'd be leaving with something like 50000 GBP worth of debt (around $83000), minimum.
Or I could go to St. Andrews (3rd oldest uni in the world, where Prince William and Kate went, etc. etc.) or Edinburgh (top-20 in the world uni), and leave with virtually no debt by comparison.
Now, Imperial outclasses those institutions, by a wide margin, and there's virtually no better place for me to kickstart my career in academia. But I need to get some more perspective on how much money that is, more than just "a lot", so I can see if it's worth it. If you guys can offer any advice or any way for me to get a grip on this, as a bunch of adulty people, I'd appreciate it. If not, well, derail the thread as you guys always do!

First off, for my college I have to pay around $530 per credit hour for 130 credit hours... leaving me at around $70,000 (this is an overestimate but only slightly). Now THAT is also a shit ton of costs... To pay for that I have two scholarships, first was a joining scholarship (joined in September so I received a "joining scholarship"... which cut shit down to $50,000... Next I also got a "Deans List" scholarship, which cuts me down another $20,000... so now all I have left is $30,000 to deal with... Now I have TWO options for THAT... Wait till I'm almost finished and join the Army as an OFFICER and have my GI Bill pay that off... OR I join the Army now As an E2 (thx to JROTC training) and receive yet ANOTHER Discount/scholarship and that cuts me down a pretty good sum.

So here is the thing, before you say "Yes" or "No" IF you REALLY want to join this college look for EVERY possible scholarship you can receive and qualify for. Plan your shit out and think of a way on how you'll be able to pay off the rest of it. Think of every question and plan it out. "What if this wasn't for me?" "What if something happens and I can't finish?" "How much am I willing to lose for this education" "Can I receive the same education for a lower cost?" "Does it matter to my employers where I receive my degree?" "What other benefits does this degree give me?"

Once you answer those questions you should be able to determine for yourself if that college is good for you, or not. but don't answer too soon without committing yourself to some research too.Set yourself a plan and figure out how you are going to pay for that schooling...

Also, don't put yourself in chains and set on one thing until you know that is the life you really want first. If you're sure you'll enjoy that line of work, than by all means do it... but if you're unsure than maybe take an apprenticeship or look into the job... as should you look at other jobs that you might also enjoy as well. Keep an open mind on this sort of thing.

Edit:

Forgot the moral of my story...

"Just because it SAYS it would be that big of a price, does not mean it will be that price."

InspectorGadget said
My brother went to Toro at NYU. He is a lawyer. He has nearly half a million dollars in debt. 83,000 is nothing. Get the education you have earned and fuck the money. It is a fictional fixation industry creates to keep you scurred. Enjoy your life and let your kids pay for it when you're dead.

Got news for you, that half mil isn't from college debt.

What exactly do you gain from going to one of the "greatest" colleges in the world? You're guaranteed to get a quality education, but you can also be guaranteed of that very easily at other places. As many people have already described, the interest will be what becomes the greatest issue. You should also consider that you are not likely to obtain a job that can bear that kind of weight right out of college. It's common now to walk out of college and have nothing to do and nowhere to go, unless you go for more schooling and therefore build more debt. I'm not sure how entry into the physics world works or even how it works at all (besides "publish or perish"), but I imagine it can't be unlike many industries with high paying jobs with high qualifiers; it may take you a while to get a job and to start raking in the kind of money that you anticipated.

I'm an advocate of the idea that I'm not someone to listen to ever, but in the modern era I'm fairly certain that the most ancient and prestigious schools don't hold the edge that they used to.That's not to say all universities are equal, but ones like Imperial carry only a name and a price tag, though that name will be a great benefit. I'd say learning theoretical physics at an amazing college of repute is good enough,

Unless you have scholarships. Scholarships are an enormous factor. I wouldn't do it with no scholarships.You should also look at financial aid and anything else that could lighten that load (you should do that with all colleges). If you can make that debt more reasonable, it's something to seriously consider. As it currently stands, however, at $83,000 that's not worth what you'll be getting, at least not to me.

Your life, your call. I'm a future English major (or something similar), so you have greater authority over numbers than I do.