[OOC] The Rebel Vampire

[TShara]

He might eventually. If Alexi would stop essentially fucking with him about it, and he could understand everything, then he might be able to deal better. Right now, he sees no way that the slavery could end so quickly, even if there is an antidote, and no reason why Alexi would be the one to end something that allows him to live in the lap of luxury.

I mean, if a guy kidnapped you, handcuffed you to a bed, deprived you of food, water, medicine that you need to take every day to not get sick, and started talking about some big plan to free all the slaves of the world, would you believe anything he had to say? Right now his actions are speaking louder than his words, and they aren't telling a good picture.

[PopeAlessandros]

*Giggles* Well, after the last dose, he'll tell Erik, but by then. . . .And I see what you mean. Poor Alexi. . .Poor Erik. . . .*Really thinks you will either love or hate the plan* *Is full of the aching feelings for both of them*

By the way, you are second from the top right now, but I need sleep, work tomorrow. I will get to you tomorrow, promise!

[TShara]

Yeah, I feel bad for both of them, and Joseph. What's Alexi's excuse for not explaining everything to Joseph again? Something about Joseph stopping him if I remember correctly?

I try not to get terribly picky about how long you take. Sometimes I just want to know where I am in your stack is all. :-)

[PopeAlessandros]

*Thinks about it* There is one thing I have to tell you before the first dose. I hope you like/agree to the idea :P This is only part of it all, but it may give a little bit away, but I think it will make for a more enjoyable RP if we can agree upon this. It all has to do with the origin of the Breaking Process. The concept is simple.(I'd like to save the big grand history for the RP itself, unless you really need to hear my reasoning now, then I'll have no choice but to spill :P)

Concept: There is a direct correlation between the feelings the the being doing the breaking has for the one being broken.

In this case: Alexi loves and admires Erik and the "breaking" would take less of a course towards submissiveness, but still bind Erik TO him.

So, yeah, if you like the concept, that's great, if you need more explenation, sure, and if you don't like it. . . .*Sad puppy eyes* Pleeeeaaasse!?!?!?!

[TShara]

Initially, I like the idea, but I need more explanation than that, mostly because I need to play it correctly and I think my characters have lived in the world long enough to have some idea of how it works. Erik would know because breaking is basically a Resistance horror story, and Joseph would have found out over the years as he gained more autonomy.

What exactly would the end results for Erik be?

And how does it mesh with how Joseph's breaking has been described. The Vandros master who did it hated vampires and wanted a perfect slave with very little autonomy or will to resist, and that's what he got? Would that have also contributed to why Joseph basically loathes himself for what he did? Because I meant for that part of it to have come on his own, basically from being the oppressed rather than the oppressor and finally seeing that perspective.

[PopeAlessandros]

History: The breaking process was originally invented by Vampires themselves, but not as a slavery tool, or a tool at all. The magic was a secret known only to a very few vampires who wanted a way to bind themselves to the ones they loved in a way no other creature could. A kind of bonding that makes love look like simple affection. When two beings loved one another so much, these vampires would create a batch of the special potion and over the course of the week, the two beings would become essentially of one heart. In other words, it was the ultimate blending of souls.

However after the upheaval the ones who invented the potion were killed and the recipe stolen by humans. At first they had not idea what they had, but after finding some old notes, a particularly sadistic scientist figured out how it works and how to use it to the human's advantage. By administering it to vampires with a human's blood, only the feelings and wills of that human would be shared, and rather than becoming one in a loving sense, the anger, hatred, and lust to dominate would break the will of the vampire and forever put that creature under their thumb.

The recipe itself remains unchanged, as well as the manner of delivery, but since one only hard breaks a slave for one reason, there has never been any other results than a being with a broken will and subservient attitude. The crushing weight of the human's loathing would overrun the non-human and create the perfect slave.

However, as I have said, in this case, Alexi has nothing but love and admiration for the rebel leader, his passion for freeing the slaves on par with Eriks. Since the potion was kept such a secret, even the ones having used it not really knowing what was happening all that well, the legends about the soul sharing potion has never been linked to, as you put it, the Resistance horror story breaking.

~*~*~*~*~

Yes to what happened to Joseph. As far as the first part goes. I leave it up to you whether you want it to be linked to his self loathing. I can see it being the reason, but again, it's up to you. I can see it the other way too, as a choice made by a shamed vampire who tortured the innocent. If that's what you want, so shall it be. He's your character after all. *Smile*

So, what cha think?

[TShara]

I like the idea a lot, but I have a couple of tweaks to suggest. For one, I think the recipe should have been improved over the centuries. The way I imagine history in this RP, is pretty similar to the way human history progressed in our world, and it is in human nature to want to improve on any technology. Additionally, I imagine it started being mass produced at some point, like everything else.

Otherwise I'm fine with it, and it's deeper than what I had in mind.

I still don't get what the love and affection would do to change the results though? I mean, I get that Erik's freewill won't be completely broken, but what would it do? If it changes him into loving and admiring Alexi, then that's still pretty insidious, and still breaking his will, just in a different way. So what exactly do you have in mind for those results?

~*~*~

Maybe the breaking "planted the seed" for it, but over time he came to the realization mostly on his own, and it was primarily his own time to think and realize that as much as he hated his lot in life now, even the breaking was a mild punishment for what he had done.

[TShara]

I like the idea a lot, but I have a couple of tweaks to suggest. For one, I think the recipe should have been improved over the centuries. The way I imagine history in this RP, is pretty similar to the way human history progressed in our world, and it is in human nature to want to improve on any technology. Additionally, I imagine it started being mass produced at some point, like everything else.

Otherwise I'm fine with it, and it's deeper than what I had in mind.

I still don't get what the love and affection would do to change the results though? I mean, I get that Erik's freewill won't be completely broken, but what would it do? If it changes him into loving and admiring Alexi, then that's still pretty insidious, and still breaking his will, just in a different way. So what exactly do you have in mind for those results?

~*~*~

Maybe the breaking "planted the seed" for it, but over time he came to the realization mostly on his own, and it was primarily his own time to think and realize that as much as he hated his lot in life now, even the breaking was a mild punishment for what he had done.

[TShara]

I like the idea a lot, but I have a couple of tweaks to suggest. For one, I think the recipe should have been improved over the centuries. The way I imagine history in this RP, is pretty similar to the way human history progressed in our world, and it is in human nature to want to improve on any technology. Additionally, I imagine it started being mass produced at some point, like everything else.

Otherwise I'm fine with it, and it's deeper than what I had in mind.

I still don't get what the love and affection would do to change the results though? I mean, I get that Erik's freewill won't be completely broken, but what would it do? If it changes him into loving and admiring Alexi, then that's still pretty insidious, and still breaking his will, just in a different way. So what exactly do you have in mind for those results?

~*~*~

Maybe the breaking "planted the seed" for it, but over time he came to the realization mostly on his own, and it was primarily his own time to think and realize that as much as he hated his lot in life now, even the breaking was a mild punishment for what he had done.

[PopeAlessandros]

I'm imagining that Alexi had his own batch made special from the old recipe, having Joseph get the mass produced stuff to throw him off. I'm glad you like the idea :P

Well, the result. . .For now just focus on how it will make Erik feel. Since Alexi will be supporting his will rather than repressing it, as well as Alexi basically sharing his soul with nothing in return, it would come across as a rather pleasant thing, if very confusing. I see a soul share, with the original recipe, sharing not only feelings, but memories maybe. Not the exact happenings, but those little snippets of times in Alexi's life where he felt his strongest passions. Alexi would be sharing the kindest parts of himself with Erik, you're free to come up with your own interpretation of how that feels to Erik. He's not forcing Erik to love and admire Alexi, he's simply showing Erik how he feels about the vampire and his cause. Rather than forcing his feelings to change towards Alexi, he's simply showing Erik his feelings, and letting Erik decide what to do with them.

I can see Erik not believing them at first, just like he doesn't believe Alexi's words, but by the third dose it would be clear that the feelings are not a lie. The result. . . Again, that road leads to the big plan, and you told me not to tell you :P

~*~*~*~*~*~

As you will. Joseph is yours after all. Maybe Joseph tortured a member of Alexi's own ancestry and that's why the great great whatever decided to break Joseph in the first place, sharing all the suffering and pain from having a loved one tortured by the vampire.

[TShara]

Still don't get why he would want to throw Joseph off. I could just edit a previous post to make it clear that it was an “old-style” batch. Is that just to make my previous posts work, or is there another reason?

So essentially, it will not break Erik's will because Alexi does not want Erik's will broken. And I'm guessing it will not make him submissive, or even force him to follow Alexi's commands? Because whatever Alexi wants, he does not truly want a slave. So the result is … maybe a half-empathic connection, rather than the complete submission to another's will.

Will Alexi start acquiring some of Erik's emotions and memories as well?

That does sound really sweet, but it's also kind of sad, because Erik's going to spend a lot of time basically torturing himself with starvation and resistance for nothing.

If Alexi wanted understanding, then why couldn't he have just used his vast resources to simply try and talk to the vampire? Or even kidnapped him so that he could have a chat? … Then again I dont think Erik would have been too amiable to that. I imagine Alexi's public image is highly in support of slavery, given the corporation he runs.

And if Alexi told Erik that the potion wouldn't hurt him, he wouldn't believe it anyway, because the only thing he knows about the breaking potion is the damage it does. Because that's all it's ever really done for centuries.

~*~*~

That would make a good backstory. The torture was less a sadistic thing and more an animalistic thing. Vampires of that time just basically thought themselves at the top of the foodchain; faster, stronger, and better in every way. They were superior, so they deserved what they took, in their minds. That's how Joseph was initially taught. They needed blood to survive, and some of the methods modern society has to curb the bloodlust or make animal blood, donated human blood, or synthetic blood available, just weren't invented or widespread yet. For instance, even removing the synthetic option, storing farmed animal blood, or donated human blood, wouldnt be a thing until refrigeration was a thing. Basically vampires of the time just gave into their primal emotions. So when Joseph tortured and killed people, it was to feed himself. I would like to think that even then he did not cause unnecessary pain.

[PopeAlessandros]

Old batches so not exist any more. Joseph wouldn't know the difference any way. Yes, it is essential that Joseph does not know about the old batch.

He is going to be presented with, basically, Alexi's soul, and aside from sharing and possibly boosting how Erik and Alexi feels about slavery and the like, it will be up to Erik how the positive emotions affect him. Since Alexi is all about free will, it will be entirely Erik's choice.

No, since Erik is the only one taking the potion, he will be the only one affected.

Not for nothing. It's that fire of resistance that makes him so appealing and the right person for the thing Alexi's trying to do. His suffering will not only show Alexi that he's still up to the task, but will(One would hope) prove to Erik that not only can he resist, but that Alexi wants him to. Think of it like the first sign(Other than the lack of crushing negative emotions) that the thing taking place isn't meant to break him. I see it taking a few doses for that to sink in.

Indeed. He doesn't want to negotiate with Erik, or even support him behind the scenes. He wants to share. *Can't say more, will ruin surprise even more than it already is from all these questions :P*

Right again. It will take a few doses for Erik to even get an inkling as to what is happening to him.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~

*Nods* Neat Idea. Glad I can help out wif da back story. The humans would, since they are humans, not see the torture that way, which is why they got so mad. Because the thing feeding on them looks like humans, they assigned human morals to them.

Oh, and I forget this discussion, but I wanna put it down if we forgot, to give another option later on, vampires are made, not born. . .I think we already agreed on that, but I seem to have forgotten. . . .

[TShara]

Alright, I think I get it, but I might come up with more questions later. :-)

What Joseph and the others did was wrong, there's no doubt about that, but it was, in part, borne out of a need to survive and the lack of other methods to control their bloodlust. There were, of course, other aspects of racism and a superiority complex as well though. They could have found ways to control themselves, but they did not think it was worthwhile to try.

I'm fine with vampires being able to be "made" or turned, but I think they have to be able to be born as their own race as well. Otherwise, they would die out. Once the vampires could be controlled, they would not be able to turn enough humans to sustain their race. As far as humans wanting to be turned, there would be a few, but it's a choice between a short life with freedom or a longer life with little to no free will. I was thinking that most humans just chose to keep their lives as they were. So I've been thinking of them as having the ability to breed (though with lower fertility rates than humans), and that physiologically, they are more like an alien or other species than undead. As far as being able to turn humans, the "right" kind of bite would have to alter them on a cellular level and change them physiologically.

[PopeAlessandros]

Feel free to ask. I'm only a little less elusive than Alexi, but that does mean I can answer more questions :P

*Nods*

And yays, will give more options *Sly smile*

I should be getting to a post soon. You're at the top right now, and other than a animals attacking me and needing to spend time with the new rats, I has nothing really stopping me. I'm so glad you agreed tot he idea, and I can't wait to see what Erik makes of it.

[TShara]

I'm guessing you can't tell me why Joseph can't know, as that would basically reveal the whole plan?

Alright, cool. I look forward to it. :-)

[PopeAlessandros]

I can't tell you why he can't tell Joseph because:

A) Joseph would find a way in his breaking to stop him most likely(Or so I am guessing from the way you've played him)
B) It would indeed give away a huge portion of the plan
C) The scene in my head is worth it and it will only work if Joseph doesn't know until the right moment *Grin*

Posted! Alexi likes monologueing, and if you want me to change the part with the book or the water bottle, just let me know.

[TShara]

Fiiiine. :-P But if you have to abandon me before the plan comes to fruition then you have to promise to tell me what it was. :-)

I had no problem with anything Alexi said until the very end. (Except that he's totally wrong about how much time before Erik gives in, but it's an understandable mistake.)

How has Alexi done all of this preparation, getting his own brother to lead a mission to capture this famous rebel leader, and he doesn't even know his name?! That doesnt make much sense to me. There are many rebel leaders across the world. In my mind, Erik was a relatively famous one, and is certainly a known fugitive. I just can't believe Alexi wouldn't know his name...

[PopeAlessandros]

I don't abandon peoples :P And Alexi doesn't know his name because he told hid brother to keep it to himself :P It may sound weird, but, that's how it is :P In the vaguest sense of reality, he heard ABOUT Erik's exploits and a lot of other infos, but when it came to do finding stuff about the vampire himself, Alexi basically looked at a picture and said "I want that one". I would think that most rebels keep personal things about themselves close to the vest, not letting others in on them unless there is complete trust, but that's my own assumption. However you wanna figure it, ALexi refused to hear the name until Erik himself tells him. He wanted to hear it from his lips alone. Mois knows his name, but as we've seen, Mois is a pushover when it comes to his brother's will :P Mois only knows the name however because he's a great investigator :P

Oh, and you said what he said, not what he thought, so what's that last thing he said that you don't agree with?

[TShara]

Most rebels do keep personal information to themselves, but Erik was already a wanted man before all of this, with a police file and everything. Not knowing his name would be like... not knowing Ted Bundy's name or something. They try to only run the links back to the cell, but a cell leader's name would eventually get out. It seems like Alexi would have to never watch the news, and would have had to decide he wanted that guy basically from looking over Mois' folder and seeing his picture. I can just imagine this conversation.

Alexi: "I want that one. I like his eyes."
Mois: "What?! That guy is the leader of the rebellion around this area. He's a known criminal, and he's committed tons of terrorist acts that killed many people. He's dangerous."
Alexi: "But he's pretty! I want that one!"
Mois: "Seriously, this is -"
Alexi: "No, don't tell me, I want to find out from him!"
Mois facepalmed at his brother's insanity.

[PopeAlessandros]

Bingo.