Have you ever changed your mind about one of those big issues?

[mdk]

@mdk They say being an asshole and trying to force your opinions will NEVER change one's true beliefs. But hell, maybe edgy teenagers and religious zealots are on to something after all. *sarcasm*

@SleepingSilence

See, calling other things stupid is how you become smart. Because it makes you smarter than those things. So once I called religion stupid, I was therefore smarter than like 80% of the people in the world. It's brilliant really.

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>
See, calling other things stupid is how you become smart. Because it makes you smarter than those things. So once I called religion stupid, I was therefore smarter than like 80% of the people in the world. It's brilliant really.

@mdk

I think a lot of people would eagerly agree with that logic, frankly. Though the often used intellectualism of calling things stupid makes you smart, is probably why I take many opinions, with a grain of salt. :P

[Halo]

Actually, I have thought of something I 180'd on. I used to believe that not voting in any major election or referendum could only be the result of stupidity, a lack of appreciation for the value of the vote, and laziness.

However, at the time of the Scottish Independence Referendum, I had a friend who chose not to vote. This sort of astounded me; I knew him to be an intelligent, politically invested person. We'd had many debates about the referendum. And the very concept of actively choosing to abstain from voting befuddled me.

He explained to me that having looked into both sides of the argument in vast detail, he simply could not decide which side to vote for. He felt facts were being muddled by both sides, and that neither had substantial enough a case to convince him. He actively chose to abstain, saying he felt it was irresponsible to vote for something he had no conviction in - it would be an abuse of his vote, cheapening its value. I found myself rather agreeing with his reasoning. Although in that referendum I had a strong opinion and thus voted, recently I chose to abstain from a vote myself. Complete shift in my view.

[NotAMouse]

I recently had a change of heart about something. Before a few weeks ago it didn't even occur to me that I could entertain a different opinion than the one I'd previously held.

I decided that I like brussels sprouts and didn't mind if my eggs were runny.

Whew. Boy does it feel good to get that off my chest.

[KnightShade]

I recently had a change of heart about something. Before a few weeks ago it didn't even occur to me that I could entertain a different opinion than the one I'd previously held.

I decided that I like brussels sprouts and didn't mind if my eggs were runny.

Whew. Boy does it feel good to get that off my chest.

@Taaj

I was prepared to tolerate all sorts of political fuckery when I posted in this thread, but this bigotry towards dippy eggs is just too much. Disgusting.

[Awson]

<Snipped quote by Taaj>

I was prepared to tolerate all sorts of political fuckery when I posted in this thread, but this bigotry towards dippy eggs is just too much. Disgusting.

@KnightShade

Hey, no arguing.

[KnightShade]

<Snipped quote by KnightShade>

Hey, no arguing.

@Awson

God made egg yolks runny and, no judgement, but hard boiling them is an abomination against nature. You can't just hard boil an egg, it once had the potential to give life. But I'm not going to argue further because turning the other cheek is the Christian version of MDK's calling things stupid thing.

[NotAMouse]

<Snipped quote by Awson>

God made egg yolks runny and, no judgement, but hard boiling them is an abomination against nature. You can't just hard boil an egg, it once had the potential to give life. But I'm not going to argue further because turning the other cheek is the Christian version of MDK's calling things stupid thing.

@KnightShade

What if you eat a hard boiled egg and give birth to a live chicken?

Immaculate cluckception.

[Keyguyperson]

Last year I was casually supportive of some social justice issues and thought there was literally nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton. I also wanted to be an author.

As of now, I fantasize about seizing the means of production and the fact that capitalism exists keeps me up at night. This happened, for the most part, in half of a year. The real 180 (since neoliberalism and communism are technically leaning towards the same side of the spectrum) is that I want to be a naval fighter pilot now.

That doesn't really mesh with my Filthy Commie tendencies, but hey, naval pilots were always some of the first picks for the astronaut program.

[Meiyuki]

I used to support the death penalty in my younger years. Then I saw the statistics on the number of innocent people they think they've executed and promptly 180'd.

You can set an innocent man free from prison, it's not fair to him or anyone around him that he was held against his will for something he didn't do, but it's something. You can't raise the dead.

[The Nexerus]

One thing I have changed my mind about relatively recently is my attitude towards people with different viewpoints than mine. I used to assume that everyone who had an opinion on a substantive issue that differed from my own held it because of a combination of ignorance and stupidity. I've recently entertained the idea that some people just have different priorities than others.

I fantasize about seizing the means of production and the fact that capitalism exists keeps me up at night.

@Keyguyperson

I'm picturing an overweight man with a poorly kept beard, listening to The Internationale on his iPod while wearing nothing but a Che Guvera shirt (manufactured in Bangladesh).

[Vilageidiotx]

I'm picturing an overweight man with a poorly kept beard, listening to The Internationale on his iPod while wearing nothing but a Che Guvera shirt (manufactured in Bangladesh).

@The Nexerus

that is what i am picturing too, but only because that is what i am always picturing.

[Halo]

One thing I have changed my mind about relatively recently is my attitude towards people with different viewpoints than mine. I used to assume that everyone who had an opinion on a substantive issue that differed from my own held it because of a combination of ignorance and stupidity. I've recently entertained the idea that some people just have different priorities than others.

<Snipped quote by Keyguyperson>

I'm picturing an overweight man with a poorly kept beard, listening to The Internationale on his iPod while wearing nothing but a Che Guvera shirt (manufactured in Bangladesh).

@The Nexerus

irony

[Keyguyperson]

I'm picturing an overweight man with a poorly kept beard, listening to The Internationale on his iPod while wearing nothing but a Che Guvera shirt (manufactured in Bangladesh).

@The Nexerus

You're wrong. I don't have a poorly kept beard, I have poorly kept sideburns that sprout from my face as wheat from a field. If wheat got tangled with itself. I also don't own a Che Guevara shirt. I am, however, overweight and listen to The Internationale on my iPod. My shirts, however, are manufactured in Taiwan thank you very much. I'm also not a man. I'm not good enough to be considered a man.

<Snipped quote by The Nexerus>

irony

@Halo

Well, to be fair to myself, what am I supposed to listen to The Internationale on? A record player made by my friendly neighborhood commune in the rural Southeast of America, playing an original recording of the song that cost multiple gangster lives to smuggle out of the USSR? An iPod ripoff called the iMarx, also made by my friendly neighborhood commune? I mean, if I refused to participate in capitalism, I'd have to ignore all of society. Farms participate in capitalism, so I'd grow my own food. I'd make my own clothes, build my own well, etc. And then I'd have to ignore culture in general, since all TV shows and movies participate in the market. Newspapers, news channels, etc. are all for-profit and thus must be ignored. I would basically be a medieval peasant, just without the whole "Basically just a slave" bit. Sorry about that rant, I just get T R I G G E R E D whenever I hear the "But your computer is from capitalism!" line.

[ACPM]

<Snipped quote by ACPM>

10/10, accounts first post is discussing the differences in socialism and capitalism, in spam.

What a way to start.

@Derpestein

If that was such a good first impression for you I'll try the same topic the next time I go to a party...

<Snipped quote by Derpestein>

Who wants to bet he signed up merely to plug into the argument because he somehow happened to find the debate?

@Dinh AaronMk

I'd already made an account but apart from that, pretty much. I'm a pedantic arsehole.

@Vilageidiotx

"In theory, though I suppose you could argue that in practice social democracy is socialism since it's as close as we've ever came at this point in our development"

If we're being pure in our examples:
Paris Commune 1871
Free Territories of Ukraine 1918-21
Catalonia 1936-39
Rojava 2012-present

But you could even argue that, at some points, China under Mao and Russia under Lenin and Stalin were socialist. While Lenin did move to state capitalism as a intermediate measure, they were controlled democratically by democratic centralisation of the means of production.

"Real free market economics is ridiculously unstable and unworkable, anytime we get close to putting it in practice damaging bubbles always arise"

I wouldn't disagree with your analysis but I think when most sane people mean free market economics they refer to the state not being involved in any subsidies/tarrifs rather than simply not enforcing private property which would lead to the destruction of the system.

"we've never really had a worker-controlled economy on a large scale "

See examples above. While they didn't last long, this is largely because the entire forces of reactionaries (and Bolsheviks) were ranged against them.

[KnightShade]

When the communist party said 'go hard or go home,' the socialists hung out in the kitchen

[The Nexerus]

irony

@Halo

My willingness to understand the perspectives of others doesn't extend very far into the extremes.

[Awson]

Had to be the first one to sling shit, didn't ya?

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL

[KnightShade]

<Snipped quote by Halo>

My willingness to understand the perspectives of others doesn't extend very far into the extremes.

@The Nexerus

Surely extreme points of views are easier to understand? They're usually seductively simplified models of the world, you might not agree with them but it's easy to see why others do.

[Awson]

<Snipped quote by The Nexerus>

Surely extreme points of views are easier to understand? They're usually seductively simplified models of the world, you might not agree with them but it's easy to see why others do.

@KnightShade

He's talking about what he can empathize with.

And it is easy to see why people choose extremes. But it's not easy to empathize with them.