Adversity and Pride

[LuckyBlackCat]

I mean, in the US, yes, sure. I can see how a LGBT pride can be 'necessary' to a degree in the way that you mentioned. It shows humanity there.

However for 99% of the other countries where prides are held (for example in Europe) these are not necessary because we don't face that much hate crime against anyone within that given community. I've mentioned the statistics earlier and they were really insignificant. I can look it up again if you'd like, and even give you the .pdf but it's in Dutch so it's pretty useless (for you. I found it quite insightful).

I'm curious to see how asexuals partake in a pride. Likely they are part of the crowd that doesn't actually partake in the whole 'dressing up and being 'gay' in public' shebang but rather just enjoys festivities. Which is the part that I don't really have any problems with, as I've mentioned before. (I mean, you replied after me and I think you were responding to me directly.)

@Buddha

Ok, I'll admit I don't have that much experience with pride parades, I've only ever been to one (considering going to another this year though) and there wasn't anything blatantly sexual about it. That said, my girlfriend has been to several and she's disappointed with the way Pride has gone. There are people who just use it as an excuse to get drunk, so it seems like these parades have strayed from what they were supposed to be. They're not the only way of showing pride, though.

Did you know homosexual/bisexual women are less likely to be 'oppressed'? Acceptance is higher for gay/bisexual females, than it is for gay/bisexual men.

This was even represented in suicide graphs. I found that quite interesting.

@Buddha

Yes, gay and bisexual women still experience prejudice. The suicide graph is interesting, but read these articles about the LGBTQ+ community and mental health:

vice.com/read/lgbt-mental-health-are-w..
Lydia Cawson, a 29-year-old gay woman, is currently training to become a mental health practitioner. Part of the reason is because she doesn't believe there is enough accessible help for people of the LGBT community.

"I suffered a great deal with mental health," she says. "I never received any help for discussing my sexuality, gender, and personal identity because these factors were masked by other health concerns. I was anorexic between the ages of 16 and 21 and was constantly being told that it was my rejection of femininity and womanhood. I was challenged to find that connection and 'get better.' There was no consideration that that was part of the problem."

The RaRE report states how many gay and bisexual women use alcohol to "manage uncomfortable or unwanted feelings... in relation to concerns around same-sex attraction." Of those surveyed, 37.1 percent of LGB women were found to have engaged in hazardous drinking. The causes involved, again, were adolescent experience and linking of sexuality to feared reactions of coming out, as well as using alcohol as a crutch to deal with heteronormative family expectations.

advocate.com/health/2016/3/18/how-our-..
Study after study shows LGBT Americans suffer from mental health disorders at rates far exceeding heterosexual people — depression strikes gay men at six times the rate of straight men; nearly half of transgender people encounter symptoms of anxiety and depression; lesbians and bisexual women also deal with higher rates of mental health struggles than their straight sisters, with bisexual women faring even worse than lesbians.

Also, my girlfriend and I have experienced some forms of bigotry. We've had nasty, threatening things yelled at us. I know there are other people who have it much worse, but it's still not something we should have to put up with.

However I'm not sure why you'd let anyone and their mom know that you're bisexual. I'm straight and I don't go around yelling at people 'yo, I'm straight!' Isn't it something you keep to yourself, a little? Consider that. For example on a job interview, I doubt your future employer would ask you straight up what your sexuality is. If he does, that's harassment. I think you could file it under that. Ya feel?

@Buddha

Being open doesn't mean I go around yelling about it at every opportunity. It's just something I'll mention if it's relevant to the conversation. For example, I was chatting with someone and I mentioned my girlfriend. The other person said, "Oh, so you're gay?" I replied, "I'm bi, actually."

This is the problem. She wouldn't have said, "Oh, so you're straight?" if I had a boyfriend. She didn't say it in a nasty way, she was just surprised, and this is the reason people are open about their sexuality. Society is heteronormative - people are assumed to be straight until proven otherwise, and there is a lot of bisexual erasure. We're sick of having that part of our identities questioned. Showing pride, whether it's by parading or in other ways, is a way of resisting heteronormativity.

[Dion]

Ok, I'll admit I don't have that much experience with pride parades, I've only ever been to one (considering going to another this year though) and there wasn't anything blatantly sexual about it. That said, my girlfriend has been to several and she's disappointed with the way Pride has gone. There are people who just use it as an excuse to get drunk, so it seems like these parades have strayed from what they were supposed to be. They're not the only way of showing pride, though.

@LuckyBlackCat

Which is basically my issue with it. It'd be grand if they were used to show some form of pride for who you are but that's more often than not the case.

Also people don't take it seriously. Kinda hard to take it serious if it's just a bunch of people dancing around.

Yes, gay and bisexual women still experience prejudice. The suicide graph is interesting, but read these articles about the LGBTQ+ community and mental health:

snipped the articles for length

Also, my girlfriend and I have experienced some forms of bigotry. We've had nasty, threatening things yelled at us. I know there are other people who have it much worse, but it's still not something we should have to put up with.

@LuckyBlackCat

Yeah, I know that mental disorders are more frequent in LGBT people but I think that's not just because of how people react to them but also due to how LGBT people are often afraid to come out. It kinda hypes up their feelings when in reality (in my country) nobody really cares.

As for having things yelled at you, well, I can't really speak on that. I just want to let you know that a lot of people get yelled at for varying things and it's just a fact of life.

Being open doesn't mean I go around yelling about it at every opportunity. It's just something I'll mention if it's relevant to the conversation. For example, I was chatting with someone and I mentioned my girlfriend. The other person said, "Oh, so you're gay?" I replied, "I'm bi, actually."

This is the problem. She wouldn't have said, "Oh, so you're straight?" if I had a boyfriend. She didn't say it in a nasty way, she was just surprised, and this is the reason people are open about their sexuality. Society is heteronormative - people are assumed to be straight until proven otherwise, and there is a lot of bisexual erasure. We're sick of having that part of our identities questioned. Showing pride, whether it's by parading or in other ways, is a way of resisting heteronormativity.

@LuckyBlackCat

I'm... not sure what you expect. The majority of people is hetero. Therefore it's easiest (and often quite safe, actually) to assume someone is hetero. If they are not, then you say 'oh, okay' and that's the end of it.

Like I said before, I'm not sure how you expect people to be able to tell? Most homosexuals/bisexuals don't look different from hetero's. Do you want us to.. smell it?

I'm also not sure about how 'not knowing someones sexuality therefore assuming they are part of the majority' is somehow erasing anything. She didn't take away your identity. She didn't say 'no you can't be bisexual' or anything. She just didn't know and then you told her and she knew, nothing hostile happened because of it. How would that lead to bisexuals being erased?

[Dolerman]

lol @ quoting vice as reputable non-biased source

[LuckyBlackCat]

Yeah, I know that mental disorders are more frequent in LGBT people but I think that's not just because of how people react to them but also due to how LGBT people are often afraid to come out. It kinda hypes up their feelings when in reality (in my country) nobody really cares.

As for having things yelled at you, well, I can't really speak on that. I just want to let you know that a lot of people get yelled at for varying things and it's just a fact of life.

@Buddha

Mental disorders in the LGBTQ+ community aren't always a result of catastrophising. Some of us do get treated badly once we're out. My family is supportive, but not all LGBTQ+ people are as lucky as I am. It's not always a matter of people being explicitly bigoted either. Prejudice is often much more subtle than that. My girlfriend has had a few people become noticeably uncomfortable around her once they found out about her sexuality.

And no, we're not going to put up with getting queerphobic stuff yelled at us. I know people get things shouted at them for many reasons, but this kind of treatment is why we're sometimes afraid to hold hands in public. The reason I mentioned it was because it's one example of prejudice against lesbian and bisexual women, and we want to fight that prejudice. It's no good saying "well, there are always going to be jerks, so we might as well just all accept bigotry".

I'm... not sure what you expect. The majority of people is hetero. Therefore it's easiest (and often quite safe, actually) to assume someone is hetero. If they are not, then you say 'oh, okay' and that's the end of it.

Like I said before, I'm not sure how you expect people to be able to tell? Most homosexuals/bisexuals don't look different from hetero's. Do you want us to.. smell it?

I'm also not sure about how 'not knowing someones sexuality therefore assuming they are part of the majority' is somehow erasing anything. She didn't take away your identity. She didn't say 'no you can't be bisexual' or anything. She just didn't know and then you told her and she knew, nothing hostile happened because of it. How would that lead to bisexuals being erased?

@Buddha

Yes, most people are straight. However, that doesn't change the fact that non-straight sexualities are often disregarded. We just mention it (when it's appropriate) so people don't assume "straight unless proven otherwise" for both those reasons, because it's part of who we are.

Bisexual erasure is a thing, and even some gay people do it. It's a subconscious, ingrained thing, rarely overt, leading to the "same sex dating = gay, opposite sex dating = straight" assumption. My friend is married to a man, but her identity is still important to her. She doesn't want her past relationships with women invalidated. I don't want my past relationships with men invalidated. It isn't people's fault if they assume I'm a lesbian, but I am going to correct them on it - and I've had a few people (a small minority, but still) assume I'm gay and afraid to be open about it even after I've said I'm bi.