(Positive) Pagan/Nature Religion/Spirituality discussion

[Dion]

@DeadBeatWalking I noticed the same thing with edgy people trying to make my religion into something .. less.

Except it was Americans that, once the TV show 'Vikings' came out, decided that they were like 1% Swedish and thus were vikings.

Anyway I've never heard of Santeria, what's so 2spooky about it?

[Little Bill]

Aside from the strong elements of animal sacrifice, curses based on seeking revenge, and the spooky imagery shared by a lot of former slave religions, very little! Santeria is a beautiful religion I encourage every pagan to research, based moreso on purity and destiny than the voodoo reputation it gets in Hollywood.

[Rogue Colm]

@The Spectre don't feel like you have to be confined to a label. Believe what you want, regardless of what title it has, or if it doesn't have a title at all

[Dion]

Aside from the strong elements of animal sacrifice, curses based on seeking revenge, and the spooky imagery shared by a lot of former slave religions, very little! Santeria is a beautiful religion I encourage every pagan to research, based moreso on purity and destiny than the voodoo reputation it gets in Hollywood.

@DeadBeatWalking

I can see how that'd scare some people off. I did some reading, it sounds pretty interesting. Not my cup of tea faith wise, but definitely my cup of tea for reading material/drawing inspiration from it.

[Nerevarine]

Just wondering if there's any Romuva believers?

@Buddha

Not anymore, but I am a former Romuvan

[Dion]

@Nerevarine Is it cause the priest died? I imagine that shattered whatever little remains of the Romuvan there were. :/

[Nerevarine]

@Nerevarine Is it cause the priest died? I imagine that shattered whatever little remains of the Romuvan there were. :/

@Buddha

Well, I originally came to Romuva through Druwi (Prussian Paganism), seeking a more unified and organized movement for Baltic Paganism.

I suppose I fell out of Paganism after realizing I was there for the wrong reasons so to speak (ethnic pride mostly)

[Dion]

@Nerevarine I see. I mean that's not a 100% bad reason but if it's the only reason then yeah, I'm inclined to agree. You'll find that in most paganism trends - whenever ethnic tensions rise, paganism sees a growth in members if only because people cling to the little tradition they have.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

I'm Christian but I"M going to follow an old tradition called The Wandering. It's kind of like the Walk About. . . adapted by Odinic religionists who became Christian. My ancestors were knights and this tradition is basically, "You follow your own ways" for a certain period of time and then resume a normal life. This tradition it'self somehow comes from a religion different from mine, so it counts as discussion for this thread. Knights during the wandering were more like gangsters than chivalrous warriors, but instead of being a dick, I'm probably just going to start having sex or something.

[Dion]

@ActRaiserTheReturned T-that's remarkably accurate.

Pagans did have a lot of sex. Adultery wasn't really an existing thing either - so you can go around and make a lot of husbands mad.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

It's just that I have to do something to stay sane, and this is it. I'm an equal opportunity wanderer, so both sexes are welcome to come party with me.

[Celaira]

@Buddha Out of curiosity, it doesn't offend you when someone refers to the religion you worship as paganism, does it? The same friend I had who told me she worshipped the Old Gods also got really upset if someone called Norse religion (sorry the specific name escapes me at this very moment, will probably begin research after I posted this) paganism. I was wondering if you might have some insight into why that might be, as she was never able to explain it to me.

[Dion]

@Celaira Because paganism = bad. Christians called the Norse people pagan, they called the Romuvan pagan, they called the Native Americans pagan.

Basically, paganism is a collection name for any religion that isn't Abrahamic - at least that's always been my understanding.

So you have 'the accepted faiths' from a Christian/Muslim/Jews perspective:

• Christians
• Jews
• Muslims

They all dislike eachother to a degree but they all also agree that there's 1 god, and that he had disciples. The Jews killed Jesus, Quran mentions Jesus, and the Bible makes some mentions of Islamic figures.

They're like 3 versions of the same story.

Then you have the heretics;

• Reformed
• Protestant
• Shi'a (if you're Sunni)
• Sunni (if you're Shi'a)
• There's infinites of these. Any cult theoretically is a heretic cult.

Basically these fall within the 3 main Abrahamic religions but do not follow the 'standard' teachings. So they are part of the right faith but with the wrong interpretation.

Then you have pagans.

• Shinto (Japan)
• Taoism (China)
• Native American beliefs (USA)
• Norse-paganism (Scandinavia, Finland, Northern-Germany, Netherlands)
• Eastern Paganism (Slavic regions)
• Pff.. any religion that's not part of the main 3.

Therefore paganism is basically saying 'this isn't a good faith' because the word pagan originated from Christian viewpoints. It has the connotation that they're bad (though, honestly, you'll find that 99.99% of the pagans don't give a shit and own the label nowadays).

A more proper term would be Heathen, because 'Norse' pagans lived in the heath/meadows which is where that name came from. The Christians never went far north enough to see that a lot of pagans actually lived in snowy pine forests.

I have honestly never heard anyone call them 'the old gods' and that sounds more like a 'look at me, I'm interesting' thing because 'the old gods' can literally mean anything from Russian old gods (Yarilo, etc) to Norse old Gods (Odin, etc) to Slavic old gods (God, I don't know) to some ancient Native American spirits.

Nowadays people that follow Odin also call themselves Odinists but I've always found that name a bit stupid. I'm just Norse. I don't care what others call it - it's clear to me what they mean most of the time.

[Nerevarine]

@Buddha Within Islam we more or less consider Jews and Christians as heretics as well. They're seen as practicing what could be described as "degenerated Islam", with muslims viewing ourselves as the most correct form of the original Abrahamic religion.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

I'm going to start a new thread based on this idea of mine.

[Dion]

@Buddha Within Islam we more or less consider Jews and Christians as heretics as well. They're seen as practicing what could be described as "degenerated Islam", with muslims viewing ourselves as the most correct form of the original Abrahamic religion.

@Nerevarine

Aye, but they're different from sects/streams because they have established religious systems (popehood, Jewish councils) where as regular heretics don't usually have these kind of things on organized scales.

[Rogue Colm]

Well, the lack of official organization could be mostly contributed to the emphasis on diversity in individual beliefs. That's also why there are, for example, wiccan covens. Smaller groups for those of like beliefs, to some extent.

[Dion]

@Rogue Colm Well to have a proper organization you also need to have a sustainable amount of followers. Imagine a large religious system for only 100 followers.

Your point also doesn't really go for Islam.. there's not really a center organization of imams, so to speak. There's no 'head imam' within either of the two sects.

[Nerevarine]

Your point also doesn't really go for Islam.. there's not really a center organization of imams, so to speak. There's no 'head imam' within either of the two sects.

@Buddha

Well, there was the Caliph as the head of Sunni Islam, and Shi'a have the Imamate, which headed by The Imam of which there ranges from 7 to 12 in the line according to which sect of Shi'a theology is being followed, a uniquely Shi'a concept of an infallable leader with a direct connection with God.

There's also Ibadis, who reject central authority

[Dion]

@Nerevarine But the caliphate no longer exists, and as for the Shi'a imamate, there are countless imams and each and every one of them have differing ideas about how to be Shi'a.

I'm sure you can see how Christianity and Jews have a more centralized religious hierarchy.