Thinking about the Scope of Rps

[Sypherkhode822]

To start, I'm posting this because I want to get a conversation going, and maybe encourage someone to think about the Rp they're about to host differently. All in the name of armchair roleplay criticism. Which is what this entire subforum is, so I think I'm fine.

BUT

Most roleplays hosted here always promise to deliver big, expansive games full of limitless possibility, with entire kingdoms to conquer and intricate mysteries to unravel and thousands of adventures waiting to be experienced. And one incredibly popular genre of Roleplay is concerned entirely with largess, with Rpers playing on the scope of nation states, some of which can extend through entire solar systems.

And don't get me wrong. Nothing can make me happier like delving into a space opera Rp or a gritty low fantasy nation Rp where I control the fortune, (but mostly failings) of my moderately sized Kingdom and it's one adventure after another after another.

But where are the small Rps? We have slice-of-life's, but while those are smaller in scale scope wise-in that they only concern themselves with the ordinary lives of (for the games context) ordinary people, the time scale they operate at suggest the willingness to be played until the characters have reached the point in their lives that they'll be shipped off to a retirement home.

But how often are there games that are designed to end on a manageable time frame? Has anyone seen a roleplay that asks people to roleplay a single event?

What if there was a game created that asked it's players to roleplay a riot, or a group date, or a week long siege, or any event that has a definite end to it?

Having a game like that would probably reduce the much maligned player burnout that seems to happen a few weeks or months into a Rp, causing them to flicker out.

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with games like this, or if they feel strongly one way or another about having an idea of the scope of their game.

[Shoryu Magami]

If I was ever to get around to putting up a role-play of my main story project's setting on this site (I've hosted it over other places, from forums to messenger programs), there's no doubt it would fall into the whole multiversal opera scale of the spectrum, but it could also be broken up into individual arcs or events, making each part more self-contained, since all of these role-plays would be considered "non-canon side stories" that simply use the setting. This is one of the reasons I've always found my setting requires an entire role-play forum, rather than just be posted on a public site like this as a single entry; the world is simply too complex and deep, but that's only a bad thing on a site like this where a role-play is usually composed of a single thread. Even so, I believe my setting could cater to both worlds you're describing, simply due to the nature of how I can set up the stories. I've done precisely the type of short-term role-plays you're describing using my setting with some of my circle, and there was no lack of depth or absence of complexity, for either the plot or the characters.

Outside of my primary work, however, I have a particular role-play brewing right now which could be the sort of thing you're referring to, although admittedly it will focus (mostly) on ordinary humans, at least in terms of their abilities, but I would also hardly call this role-play a "slice of life" plot (it basically focuses on murder mystery). A very important thing to keep in mind, however, is that it would be an elimination-based role-play. So there would definitely be a contained and inevitable ending for this role-play, because players would actually be getting killed off as time went on and everyone who joined would need to be able to accept this fact. The group would need to consist of at least seven players, however, though it could cater to more so long as the number remains an odd one. Assuming it was an odd number, a smaller number would also be possible, but there's a chance this particular plot would lose its quality if that happened.

[Ellri]

The biting off more than you can chew issue is particularly common in the larger, well-established universes.

One prime example of this is the World of Darkness setting. We've yet to see a single RP there last more than a few weeks or so. The vast majority we've seen there, permitted characters from all the core settings (vampires, werewolves, changelings, mages, etc...) which in the end meant that few if any characters had much of any reason to interact. Even when it is limited to just one of the core settings, like Vampire: the Masquerade, there's quite a few clans to choose from, which can lead to the same lack of interaction options.

Its all well and nice with a vast setting, but sometimes, smaller ones with clearly defined limits are easier to set up. We ourselves are approaching launch of a massive Star Wars RP, within which we hold rather strict limits on the types of character allowed, simply to make sure that people will interact. In a galaxy as vast as that one, the players will be forced to be primarily upon one or two worlds, despite there being all sorts of other worlds out there too. This again, is to keep them together, where they'll interact.

It has not got a clearly defined end, but that is quite simply because we don't yet know where the characters will take it. We've got several options noted down, but who knows if any of them will be applicable. We've made plenty of mistakes in its execution in the past, as this will be the third time that RP is launched, each time redesigned to take care of the major issues that popped up.

The players, spread out across 3-4 factions, will drive the plot themselves, and however they end up doing stuff, that's where the story will go.

[Shoryu Magami]

@Ellri
What you've described is why, if I brought my setting over to this site, unless I was working on a grander scale (which, like I said, I would probably just do on my own complete forum using the InvisionFree boards like I usually do since a site so large and public might not be appropriate), I'd likely see myself setting up an arc-based or event-based scenario.

Everything I'm saying here assumes I was willing to spoil enough information about my work to make character registration possible, which I'm currently not. If I was, however, people would be given a lot of information about the entire setting that they could read at their own discretion to gain insight, but the actual types of characters that would be possible to register would be somewhat determined by the current event or arc in question. That would prevent the role-plays from ultimately going nowhere.

This isn't set in stone, obviously, because I'm able to adapt the plot direction in a way that can cater to multiple character types. I'm all for characters taking their own directions and developing relationships, stories, and so on, but some sort of main narrative should usually be active in the background. I've got an overarching concept to my setting that allows a lot of very unexpected things to happen outside of the original plan without those ever really being able to prevent the key plot from eventually taking place, somewhere down the line.

[BrokenPromise]

Speaking from my off-site RP experience

But where are the small Rps? We have slice-of-life's, but while those are smaller in scale scope wise-in that they only concern themselves with the ordinary lives of (for the games context) ordinary people, the time scale they operate at suggest the willingness to be played until the characters have reached the point in their lives that they'll be shipped off to a retirement home.

@Sypherkhode822

You seem to be confusing duration for scale. I can make an RP about two people falling in love and spending the rest of their days together, with the RP effectively ending when they die. I can also make an RP that scales the entire globe, but it ends once the universal tyrant with the world ending agenda is slain.

But how often are there games that are designed to end on a manageable time frame? Has anyone seen a roleplay that asks people to roleplay a single event?

@Sypherkhode822

I was in 1 RP where the goal was to end it as fast as possible. We just had to develop our characters and slay a dragon that was harassing a town. It lasted two months. While it was exhilarating to see things progress so fast, most of the minor characters were severely underdeveloped. Even the primary characters were a little rough around the edges. You're not going to say everything you want to say in shorter amounts of time.

What if there was a game created that asked it's players to roleplay a riot, or a group date, or a week long siege, or any event that has a definite end to it?

@Sypherkhode822

See above.

Having a game like that would probably reduce the much maligned player burnout that seems to happen a few weeks or months into a Rp, causing them to flicker out.

@Sypherkhode822

I do think the GM should have an idea what the hell they want to do and try to advance towards that goal, but I've participated (and hosted) RPs where that single minded determination to advance the story ends up alienating players who want to take things slower. The burnout doesn't come from being overwhelmed, but from being unable to keep up.

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with games like this, or if they feel strongly one way or another about having an idea of the scope of their game.

@Sypherkhode822

Having a direction for your RP is paramount to it's success, but I've been in "epic" scale RPs that have come to their end. The GM just needs to make sure the players don't get lost. They do this by giving them a reason to stick together (in the same general area), move to certain locations, and complete objectives. They also need the foresight to allow their players to, well, play, and flex their plans when necessary.

[NuttsnBolts]

I read this somewhere but it went along the lines of this...

"When given the option, players will always pick the one you never planned for."

To link that into the scope of the RP, you can pretty much guarantee that whatever you have planned will always end up bigger than what you anticipated. So if you planned for a large scale Roleplay, you had better be ready for one that's going to play out even bigger. It's important to know this because there are so many GMs out there that will say, "just one more player", boosting their RP size outside the small group category.

My most successful Roleplay that I GMed was one with a total of 4 players. Yeah it kinda fell apart after I went on holidays for a month, but we got around 50-60 posts in from memory (I have 15 documents on my PC). Quality over quantity and with about 6 applications for that RP I went with quality, and it paid off.

But how often are there games that are designed to end on a manageable time frame? Has anyone seen a roleplay that asks people to roleplay a single event?

What if there was a game created that asked it's players to roleplay a riot, or a group date, or a week long siege, or any event that has a definite end to it?

@Sypherkhode822

I'm not completely sure what you mean by event? Are you talking about something like a game level? (eg: Roleplay a bank heist... End Roleplay) If so then yes(?). Kinda hard to tell as I've been in so many roleplays that have died so I can't give a proper answer on that.

As for Roleplays with group character stuff... Ew... Collabs.........

Collabs are great and all, but in one RP that I am playing we ended up with 3 collab groups with 4 characters in two and 2 characters in one. (I have two characters in that roleplay) What we found was that if you create a large event with a collection of players, and something happens in IRL... It basically places the RP on a hold. In this case the scope of the RP got away from us and we made too much happen at once without realising. So in reality the risk of playing out a riot, or a group date, or a week long siege actually has nothing to do with the Roleplay itself, but how it is managed on the outside.

Personally, I enjoy the creativity seen in larger RPs with some amazing characters coming out of the woodwork, however that is not to say that some trash also escapes as well. If you want your roleplay to deliver big, set the target to small and let the story blossom on it's own.

[Ellri]

Sounds sensible, @Shoryu Magami.

[ArenaSnow]

I'm trying to host a roleplay of that (simple with a small plot and an ending in a relatively short timeframe) nature right now.

[BrokenPromise]

Collabs are great and all, but in one RP that I am playing we ended up with 3 collab groups with 4 characters in two and 2 characters in one. (I have two characters in that roleplay) What we found was that if you create a large event with a collection of players, and something happens in IRL... It basically places the RP on a hold. In this case the scope of the RP got away from us and we made too much happen at once without realising. So in reality the risk of playing out a riot, or a group date, or a week long siege actually has nothing to do with the Roleplay itself, but how it is managed on the outside.

@NuttsnBolts

I love collabs, but this hits pretty close to home.

You need to make sure everyone can break up and do their own thing after a collab, because it's hard for the RP to move folward when you need 3+ people to be online at the same time to do anything.

[Vor]

The length and scope of a RP don't have to be mutually exclusive. For example, I once participated in a RP the premise of which was that the world was ending in some cataclysmic event and it was ending in exactly 21 days from the start of the RP. Each post covered the events of one day, so the idea was that we had to wrap up the whole thing in 21 posts. People played monarchs, generals, religious leaders, heroes, villains etc - so the scope was pretty big, but there was a definite end, both on an OOC and an IC level. Funnily, we got until about day 16 before the RP died out, but yeah, you get the idea...

Ultimately, it all depends on the people participating in a given RP. I'd go as far as saying that scope/length/complexity don't really matter when it comes to the longevity of a RP. I've taken part in RP's that have lasted for years and ones that have died out a month after being set up. It's a mix of a GM's willingness to see it through and motivate their players, coupled with said players taking an active part and supporting the RP to the best of their abilities. That doesn't always happen because we're amateurs and writing isn't our top priority - RL happens, people get burned out or lose their interest, etc.

If it makes you feel better though, consider that a lot of professional, published writers fall into the same trap. Like, let's take George Martin and Robert Jordan, two very famous fantasy writers, for example. Have you noticed how concise and on point their first books were, while the later ones get more and more drawn out and tangled in their own complexity? Yeah. In fact, it's almost like a recipe for most fiction writers at this point: book 1 - 400 pages, book 2 - 700 pages, book 3- 1000 pages and so on. The more invested you get in your writing, the more you want to expand on it, which just makes the whole thing spiral out of control.

[Ellri]

Aye. A plot can easily be expanded without breaking. But you have to tie off some branches around the times new ones grow in. If going by the examples above, Robert Jordan failed to do so and had trouble towards the end, whereas GRRM keeps killing major characters, effectively terminating excess branches.

We'd rather have a slightly vague, convoluted plot with lots of entropy to mess around with than a plot that is railroaded along a single, unbranching set of tracks. So long as the main story can be moved forwards even as branches do their stuff.