[OOC] Are We the Bad Guys? - A WH40k RP [Mature]

[Jb]

@Necroes You are right, I should have expected it, which is why we're going to carry onward and upward. I apologise.

[Jb]

@Necroes Although, if Urgrugg loses it like that again, I'll still shoot him.

[Klomster]

Unless they changed it. NOT ALL SHIPS HAVE NAVIGATORS.

Navigators are a prized resource they only use on special vessels. Sure, a lot of vessels got navigators. But far from all.
Like all the bulk freighters.
The imperium would like to have more navigators, but its the navigator houses of the Navis Nobilitae on terra who decide who gets to have navigators. Making it a political danger zone to get hold of them.

Most capitol ships have them, IE cruisers and up. But the smaller it gets the lower chance it is that they managed to get one on the post.
You think that each cobra class destroyer in their battlegroups got navigators? Nope.
They probably managed to get hold of one for the entire group, but not one per ship. If even that.

Many astropaths are actually really crappy, needing whole groups to get any sort of message along the way. And of course the more important a vessel the more astropathic personnel it can acquire.
So a cruiser probably have like 3, with one being the astropath proper. (I might need to check the numbers. Checked them, didn't find exact numbers, Choirs isn't really a good counting system.)

The case is that larger vessels have dibs on astropaths as well. So any skilled astropaths will be moved to more important duties. So this crappy little vessel would logically have only a single not very impressive astropath if even that.

I have no idea if GW effed up the lore even more in the latest edition. But as i remember it, navigators are priced and rare individuals. With the imperial navy needing to keep many vessels in dry-dock or in system since they lack navigators to guide them between stars.

Also JB.
I did not use a real psychic power. Sure, i've used things who are warp touched and would be possible to detect on the warp spectrum by psykers.
But i'm not sure the astropath/'s would be like instantly aware of my use of power and be like "Critical alert, all armsmen to this location."

Urgrugg's and lucius pet psykers shenanigans are however more likely to be detected. Being more far reaching in nature.

IIRC the captain was a self centered douche so he might even disregard the mad ramblings of his astropath since psykers are all insane after all.
I'd say that the mission isn't doomed, i'd wager that the enemy vessel isn't even on alert so far.
But that's just me.

[Wraithblade6]

I'm pretty sure a crappy astropah heard your fireball loud and clear.

[Sophrus]

.

[BCTheEntity]

I admit, any psychic activity on the part of the telepath Lucius has adopted is as a result of my not knowing how far-reaching an Astropath's telepathic power is, and not really considering it as a factor. For this, I apologise. That said, I think the blast of warpfire and whatever Zuriel did is probably going to be a bit more noticable than some tiny blip of psychic beacon anyway.

[Necroes]

@Klomster

Quote: "Every starship that plies the Warp routes of the Imperium and beyond has at least one, and most likely an entire cabal of Navigators to guide it safely through the Immaterium."

Emphasis mine

Also of note, the list of powers that astropath choirs can pull off are amazing feats. When working together, they are not to be underestimated.

@BCTheEntity Again, the problem isn't that he used a psyker power. The ship is in combat, against eldar. The astropaths aren't going to be scanning the ship for psykers. Any psyker just being on board, without even casting a spell, could be spotted by an astropath looking for one if the psyker doesn't know how to mask himself. What's hiding us is that they have no reason to be looking, or they didn't.
The problem is that he's using telepathy. The core purpose of astropaths is to look for telepathic signals and powers at all times. They spend years in training to do exactly that, and then gain more years of experience doing it every day for the rest of their lives.
They Will identify him as not being another astropath. Astropaths all undergo the 'soul binding' ritual, that leaves them completely purified. That's how they identify each other in the warp; because nothing else in the warp reads like they do.
Then, once he's been spotted, the astropath will turn his attention to finding him, and do so within minutes.

So, yea... pretty boned.

[BCTheEntity]

@Necroes As opposed to the giant bursts of psychic energy just unleashed by the Ork and the Heretek, which are obviously less likely to be noticed by comparison. Obviously.

[Sophrus]

The ship is in combat, against eldar. The astropaths aren't going to be scanning the ship for psykers.

@Necroes

Uhhhh.. really? im pretty sure they would be doing that often, or at least periodically, since eldar are psyker af. it would be a bloody good boarding detection system for Eldar. If we assume the captain is half competent He would probably have one of them scanning the ship in search for Eldar Boarding actions. Which would have blown our cover, and i didnt think of it before. but not that you mentioned it, duh, of course they will.

[Necroes]

@BCTheEntity I'll say it one more time;
Psychic energy doesn't matter. Telepathy matters.

@Sophrus No, they wouldn't be. Any psyker with a brain knows better than to waist the time. If they wanted to pull off a covert attack, they would cloak their presence in the warp. They're eldar, they know they glow psyker, and they're still considered masters of stealth and surprise. Piss-ant astropaths wouldn't be able to find them if they didn't want to be found.
If the eldar weren't trying to be sneaky about getting on board, then you wouldn't need an astropath to tell you they had. You'd be able to tell by the giant wraith ship that just rammed your hull.

We were protected by the fact that no one should be crazy enough to try and pull off what we are. However, we're protagonists, so the plot is on our side. The plot is still on our side, we'll just have a harder fight of it because they're going to spot the foreign psyker. No, they're not going to respond with full-scale counter boarding action. More likely, they'll suspect one of the penal legion has somehow been corrupted by chaos. Criminals turning out to be cultists does just happen.

[BCTheEntity]

@Necroes I feel like you're overestimating how strong Lucius' psyker is, one. Two, and maybe a stupid question, but if they're attuned to telepathy specifically over all other forms of psychic power, even if those other powers are way larger in power usage, wouldn't they just detect any telepathically-inclined psyker that got on board the ship, or indeed any psyker whatsoever?

[Sophrus]

I suppose you have never heard of contingencies? Yes, the Eldar can mask their presence, Yes the astropath probably wouldnt notice them until it was too late. However, the captain probably isn't a psyker and doesnt know that. Even if he did know he certainly may order somthing that has a very low chance of success but could just as easily catch something they otherwise wouldnt have. like, i dont know an Eldar who didnt hide themselves on time, or well. Or give the ship a once over periodically in search of Chaos cults (although this would probably be a daily or weekly thing rather than something they would do in combat)

[BCTheEntity]

I suppose you have never heard of contingencies? Yes, the Eldar can mask their presence, Yes the astropath probably wouldnt notice them until it was too late. However, the captain probably isn't a psyker and doesnt know that. Even if he did know he certainly may order somthing that has a very low chance of success but could just as easily catch something they otherwise wouldnt have. like, i dont know an Eldar who didnt hide themselves on time, or well. Or give the ship a once over periodically in search of Chaos cults (although this would probably be a daily or weekly thing rather than something they would do in combat)

@Sophrus

To add to this, many Eldar don't even use their psychic powers beyond basic needs such as creating war masks. In fact, they're encouraged not to, I believe? Thus, it might be that many Eldar couldn't cloak their own psychic presence without the help of one of their more psychically-inclined allies. I'm not sure about that, it's just a theory. A GAAAAAME THEORYYY

[Necroes]

@BCTheEntity That's not how telepathy works in 40k.
In 40k, the majority of warp powers reach into the warp to take something. It could be warp energy, daemons, etc. That energy is then drawn into the psyker casting the spell, shaped by the arcane aspects of the spell casting, and released into the materium as whatever it was made into. Other psykers can feel this as a siphoning of local warp energy within the warp, or as the presence of latent warp energy within the materium. However, both of those things have extremely limited range unless the psyker in question is actively looking for them, and that takes a great deal of concentration. There are also things that powerful, experienced psykers can do to hide themselves.

Telepathy, however, works entirely differently. Telepathy doesn't actually touch the materium. Whenever a psyker uses telepathy, they send their mind into the warp via the natural connection between the two. They then filter through the millions of minds near them in the warp, until they find what they're looking for. Unless a mind is actively sending itself into the warp, it would read the same as every other mind. Even psykers would just read as another mind within the storm.
When another psyker is using telepathy, however, that's different. At that point, they are still another mind among millions, but they are one of the extremely rare minds that's sending something into the warp besides emotions and energy. To other telepaths, this is a massive beacon. Astropaths can identify each other because of a ritual they all undergo before becoming official astropaths. So, when they see another telepath broadcasting into the warp, they know whether or not it's one of theirs.
A powerful and/or experienced telepath knows how to hide himself. However, it's highly unlikely that your toady knows how to do this, or is strong enough to pull it off, as most astropaths who have years of training and field experience aren't capable of it.
In this case, it's not a matter of power level. Lucius's little buddy is basically trying to hack the modern day Pentagon with a laptop from the 90s and a single software class under his belt. He's hitting above his pay grade.

@Sophrus You've basically said it yourself. Yes, atropaths regularly search the ship they're on for foreign psykers, chaos corruption, etc. Most astropaths don't even do it because they're ordered to, they're just bored and want to experiment.
However, they wouldn't be doing this during combat. Astropaths, while powerful as a choir, aren't particularly strong psykers. It takes time, effort, and concentration for them to pinpoint other psykers. When in a choir, they all need to be working towards the same goal. During combat, that goal isn't going to be psychic look out. It's going to be defending the ship, and sending/receiving information as fast as possible.
The problem here is, the information they're looking for, and the things they're defending the ship from (i.e. telepathic assault from foreign agents) are both on the spectrum of things they would be doing that will also make them see the telepathy beacon walking beside Lucius. Given he's searching for people he's never interacted with telepathically before, he's likely taking a great deal of time to brush over the millions of minds around him. That takes time, and makes him very obvious, as it wouldn't be clear to another telepath why he's touching on minds in their territory. Only that he is, and could use that connection to potentially try and mind control them.

[Wraithblade6]

I say we've been detected.

[Sophrus]

I say we've been detected.

@Wraithblade6

i 2nd this, between all the psyker stuff that just happened yeah we totally have been.

[BCTheEntity]

@Wraithblade6@Sophrus I mean, no shit, Jb specifically stated that we've been detected due to psychic fuckery. If it's such a big deal that it was outright the telepath's fault and nobody else's, though, I can just remove that part of the post and leave it at that, @Necroes? I just think it's unlikely that it's exclusively his fault, considering the Ork just fired a giant burst of psychic energy out of his face, and the Heretek just manifested himself inside a person's body, having travelled as wisps of Warp smoke or something to do so. At worst, it tells the Astropaths where Lucius is, since he might not even be near the others, technically speaking. Again, still figuring that one out.

[Klomster]

@Klomster

Quote: "Every starship that plies the Warp routes of the Imperium and beyond has at least one, and most likely an entire cabal of Navigators to guide it safely through the Immaterium."

@Necroes

Then they changed that recently or that wiki is bullshit.
I'm gonna go with that the wiki is bullshit.

Every time i've heard of a navigator, it's in singular. They have a sanctum, and a personal bodyguard. Not even the captain of the ship is allowed to enter the navigators sanctum.
But of course i can't find this in any books, so i'll just stand here and appear like an idiot because one wiki claims there are loads of navigators on each ship.

I refuse to acknowledge that wiki.
Reading this wiki wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Navigator there is little to suggest any numbers as well as reading the battlefleet gothic rulebook.
Rogue trader refer to the navigator strictly in singular.
I'm gonna assume there is a book on the subject, one that i haven't read. (Since i barely read any books.)

Also, i haven't used any psychic powers on the enemy ship.
The pistol basically makes a psychic phenomena, so that is possible to detect. But it's not like a full blown warp plasma attack.
But perhaps i've should have just made a ritual in the corridor, so we wouldn't have an argument right now.

I'd say it's up to JB to decide how many navigators are on this vessel.
If you decide upon more than one, i will be angry and bitter but leave it be since it is the Gm's decision for this rp.
If you decide one i will not be angry and bitter, and i'll leave it be.

[BCTheEntity]

@Klomster Are... you sure about that? I mean, Zuriel did kind of enter the ship as a smoke cloud and blow up a guy's body with the remanifestation... not that it matters, since Ork lazor is a thing, but even so.

[Klomster]

@Klomster Are... you sure about that? I mean, Zuriel did kind of enter the ship as a smoke cloud and blow up a guy's body with the remanifestation...

@BCTheEntity

I actually don't know.
I imagined it like a mutation. But if you want it could be some sort of biomancy.
Or warp corrupted nanomachines.

I just thought it would be cool to turn into warp smoke.

I'm tired and bitter :(