[OOC] Are We the Bad Guys? - A WH40k RP [Mature]

[Necroes]

@BCTheEntity What are you talking about? Vespin was trained on Cadia. They literally fight chaos daemons on a daily basis there. He knows what chaos is, he's seen and fought chaos cultist, and he knows who the traitor legion are. The Imperium might like to put up the charade that it's in control, but knowledge of their enemies is well and widely known throughout the majority of Guard forces. After all, denying the existence of the Alpha Legion is what brought on the the Night of a Thousand Rebellions.

They may not hand out pamphlets discussing the fine details of their enemies, but Astra Militarum soldiers know how to spot a cultist. Besides, it was more of an insult than actual accusation. Xeph's recent 'additions' have got Vespin thinking of chaos.

[BCTheEntity]

My mistake, though I don't think most of the IG is that aware of Chaos. Cadians, sure, but I'd assume the average guardsman isn't put up against Chaos that often. That said, I need to read up a bit more closely for next time, because that is twice in a few posts I've gone and missed crucial info.

[Klomster]

@Necroes It's worth noting that the "Chaos cultist looking guy" doesn't actually look that much like a Chaos cultist. I'm also not sure how somebody in Vespin's position knows so much about Chaos, considering how stringent the Imperium is on killing most who learn about that sort of thing, whether or not they're officers.

@BCTheEntity

I second that.
Knowing an awful lot about the alpha legion.

Anyway.
I'm not saying that if there was a cadian armoured company on this ship, there wouldn't be tanks.
I'm saying this ship is too small to transport a tank company, or any notable amount of troops.

Sure, evidently there has been some guard troops attached as extra security. Probably since the sloop was expected to go into combat, so they made sure some extra men were given to this ship.
However, seeing as this is a weedy and unimportant ship, it mostly had to make do with abhumans. Ie ratlings.
Which the ship hasn't complained all too much about, after all, more nice food is always nice.

It's up to JB, but this size of ship wouldn't fit any tank groups at all. It would barely fit transporting troops at all.
It can have some extra guys, a couple of dozen of guardsmen from f'ex cadia stationed here to beef up the security. But any large amount of troops would not fit on the ship, since it lacks a lot of compartments.

From a wiki.
"Given its specialist role, the Viper is unsurprisingly limited in many ways. It is a tiny starship, with very restricted space for additional components. Furthermore, it is not heavily armed, as extensive weapon batteries would draw vital power from the sensor arrays and engines. They are rare vessels in the Calixis Sector and are not ideal vessels for Rogue Traders, given their highly specialised nature. However, more enterprising and wealthy Rogue Trader dynasties will often employ a Viper as part of a larger fleet, leapfrogging ahead of the main force to rapidly establish the nature of each planetary system encountered."

Restricted space for additional components. IE cargo space.

Anyway, i'd say it's up to Gm. After all i don't recall being told what is on the vessel in terms of troops, which is fair since we're going in not knowing what is on the vessel.
So why should we know what is on the vessel.
Although, the ratling being from ship will know what is on the vessel, so JB should have told you necroes.

Anyway, i'm hacking some ship systems.
Lalala, beep beep boop, i'm helping and not knowing what is going on in the armoury :D

[Necroes]

@BCTheEntity Well, sure, different regiments would be more and less familiar with different enemy factions, based off who they usually fight. Armagedon regiments would be more familiar with Ork, Cadians with Chaos, and Catachan with all manner of random, xeno species.

However, they're all still educated on the vast enemies of the Imperium. You don't hide that kind of information from your troops, especially when so many of your enemies can just appear at random. Sure, a lot of guard probably haven't Seen Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Daemons, or even Traitor legion... but they'll have been made aware of their existence, because each and every one of those factions could appear out of nowhere, at any time, and the Guard need to know how to engage them if and when they do.

@Klomster I'm not as familiar with the various kinds of ships in the Imperial Navy. I was just speaking from a logistics stand point. It would stand to reason that a ship that can hold over 10,000 people, while still functioning as a ship, could hold a few tanks. However, as has been pointed out, we have no idea what's happening with the ship, where it's going, why guard are on it, etc.

Though, it has been stated, the ship wasn't actually meant to be in this space combat. It was doing something else, and got called in to give aid... somehow, for some reason...

[Klomster]

@Necroes plus the crew of the sloop is about 7500.
And it's less than a kilometer long.

As for ships being able to hold tanks.
Sure, if they are however, nah.
The warships are usually mostly warships, the imperium often have troop transports for ferrying guards.
Space marine vessels are different, but they are space marines.
In BFG, mechanicus even had a special rule they had very little troops on board, so they got a penalty on boarding actions.
So tanks are usually not on navy vessels. Since they are completely different military arms of the imperium.

As for guardsmen getting the information they need.
Have you seen the imperial infantryman's uplifting primer? How to fight an ork mega armoured nob?
"Just shoot it in the head and it will drop dead in an instant."
Genestealers.
"Genestealers have puny claws and move slowly."

It is that kind of downright lies the imperium tell about its enemies, when they even tell of them at all.
Guardsmen who know of chaos space marines have learned about them from facing them.
Sure, Vespin might have faced CSM's and lived. Being a sniper helps there.

And the imperium doesn't always mind wipe people who know of chaos.
But chaos and the warp is actually far from common knowledge in the imperium. If someone mentioned Khorne to someone, they'd probably have no idea who or what you were talking off.

[Necroes]

@Klomster Guard military vehicles get transported by Naval vessels all the time. It's literally the only way guard vehicles get transported across the Imperium. They have no other means of doing it, and war machines most certainly aren't made on a vast majority of the worlds they get deployed on. The Guard don't have their own means of transport, keeping with the standard separation of powers among the Imperial higher ups. As such, the Navy alone is called on to haul them around. Literal trillions of troops, billions of vehicles, tanks, etc... it all gets transported by the Navy.

And, as for what the guard know of enemy factions... Like I said, they may not know a great deal about things they haven't fought, but they are aware of them. If for no other reason than the fact that worlds like Krieg and Catachan, death worlds whose soul purpose is to birth and supply troops, have to be schooled to engage all types of enemies, because once they're done being trained they could potentially be stationed anywhere in the Imperium, as needed.

Yes, you are right about the majority of Imperial citizens not knowing about chaos... mostly because the Imperium is massive on an unimaginable scale. However, once in the guard, what the average citizen knows about the universe at large suddenly becomes vastly more informed compared to what they were before hand.

[Klomster]

@NecroesI forgot and was reminded that Cadians would have a higher knowledge of chaos marines.
As for other regiments, it's at best a need to know basis.
Usually worse.
Since the imperium focuses more on morale than fighting effectiveness. Since if we can uphold that the guard is a very promising career prospect, we can get many volunteers to serve.
The more people know of the horrors of the galaxy, the less they are likely to volunteer.
Since if people are forced, they are less likely to fight well for the imperium than if they think that serving will be awesome and easy.

Of course there are also worlds where this doesn't apply, like Cadia.
Where war is taught from the moment one can walk, where hating your enemy is a class in school.

And the part with the imperial guard being transported since they are not the same as the navy because of the treaty after the rebellion of Goge Vandire. All true.
They are however primarily transported in troop transports. Since they are the ones designed for mass troop transport.

Since it is usually the best solution to have custom designed troop transports for that purpose.
Star wars being a setting which goes the opposite direction, but i don't recall other ones right now.

[Wraithblade6]

@jbcool You still in this mate?

[Jb]

@jbcool You still in this mate?

@Wraithblade6

I'll be 100% honest and state that I have barely any idea of what is going on (TL:DR), although if anyone feels like giving me a quick summary I would appreciate it.

[Klomster]

<Snipped quote by Wraithblade6>

I'll be 100% honest and state that I have barely any idea of what is going on (TL:DR), although if anyone feels like giving me a quick summary I would appreciate it.

@Jbcool

Isn't that sort of the GM's role?

Anyway.
We've mostly converged in the armoury, where a standoff is going on between Vespin and basically everyone else except Zuriel, who have walked off to hack the door systems which will allow him to unlock the doors on the path to the bridge with a simple word command, "titanhammer".

The overall mood in the armoury is friendly and everyone is getting along.

[Necroes]

@Jbcool It should be noted; Vespin has put forward a plan that will take them to the bridge, take command of it, and then commandeer the ship. Really, all that's left is for the space marines to bite the bullet and agree to it.

[BCTheEntity]

@Jbcool@Klomster@Necroes Vespin's being kind of a shit about the situation is all, and just killed half the potential invasion force for no good reason. Hue. But yeah, I'd say Decius could do with showing up there any time soon.

[Necroes]

How is he being anything but completely reasonable? A bunch of random space marines show up out of nowhere, release a group of prisoners, and all during the middle of a space combat without anyone on board being notified. Then, when the ratling offers up a plan to give them Exactly what they want, one of them starts mouthing off because... what, he isn't the one in charge?

Oh no!!! A space marine isn't going to be the center of attention! However could this possibly be?!

And, yes, he's rude about it. He's a ratling, a guardsmen foot soldier, and a veteran. Anyone who's been around any of the three would know that they aren't 'nice.'

@Jbcool If Decius shows up from where the prison scene occurs, he'd be on the lower floor, near Oskar and Vespin's entire squad of ratlings. Everyone else is on a catwalk, a full floor above them, and on the opposite side of the room, save Vespin who is in the middle. Also of note, the room is large, and Vespin has an auto-cannon trained on the other two space marines.

[Jb]

@Jbcool If Decius shows up from where the prison scene occurs, he'd be on the lower floor, near Oskar and Vespin's entire squad of ratlings. Everyone else is on a catwalk, a full floor above them, and on the opposite side of the room, save Vespin who is in the middle. Also of note, the room is large, and Vespin has an auto-cannon trained on the other two space marines.

@Necroes

Right...no-one really made that clear, but thanks for telling me.

On a catwalk? A two-ended catwalk? As in Decius could logically come up behind him?

[Necroes]

@Jbcool It's not really been discussed if there's an opposite end to the cat walk, connected to the far wall or not. If there was, though, there would be a good deal of space between Vespin and said wall, as he originally took up his current position to blanket-fire the door Oskar came in.

So, yes, he could potentially get behind Vespin. However, he wouldn't be able to do it quietly, by any means. Though, there's really not a great deal of need for it. If Decius has been listening in, he'd know that Vespin is quite literally offering them exactly what they're after; A path straight to the leader of the ship, a plan to take control of the command deck, a way to control the rest of the ship once they have the deck, and even a place to go and get a new ship when they abandon the one they're on.

That's exactly what he Just got done saying. That, and he's mentioned the traitor legions. Decius might be in a position to have issue with that, especially when Vespin just said 'You (the space marines) could all be Alpha Legion spies.'

[BCTheEntity]

@Necroes Yeah, I was being unnecessarily douchey about describing his demeanour, and I apologise for that. I will say, if it's not obvious from that incident with Xepherial earlier, Lucius has a prideful streak a mile wide. Does not like to admit he can't do something alone, for obvious reasons.

[Necroes]

@BCTheEntity No worries. Lucius is acting every bit the way someone would expect an old-school Astartes to act. Especially a dark angel. In fairness, I was being kind of an ass with my response. I apologize for that.

All that said, best we look past it and continue on, I think. We've got our current goal ahead of us, and once we've reached it, the true fun of this RP can finally come into effect.

[Jb]

To be honest, there are very few Chapters/Legions of Astartes that even seen humans as anywhere near themselves. He's not really being 'old school' Astartes, he's just being a Spess Mehreen. Sure I didn't need to tell you that, but I did anyway.

[Necroes]

@Jbcool Well, it's more complicated than that. The majority of loyalist legions see themselves as the protectors of humanity. They don't really judge humans as lesser beings, so much as they set themselves apart from them. Sure, there are some Astartes legions that could give two fucks less about humans, but that's more about the decisions of the chapter masters and the captains than the actual marines.

Remember, every space marine started life as a human. They've just ascended to the level of super-human. After that, they tend start thinking of humans the way Spider-man, or even Superman do. Separate, less powerful, and needing protection... but still living, sentient beings, worthy of both that protection, and of respect.

Especially for guardsmen. Practically any Marine recognizes that any given guard soldier is a hell of a lot braver than they are. Space Marines go into combat wrapped in power armor, wielding at minimum a chain sword and a literal hand-cannon, and with so many ogmentations that it takes absolutely ridiculous levels of firepower to actually kill them.
But Astra Militarum foot soldiers? They get a lasgun and flack armor, and they're expected to take on everything from hyper-evolved super aliens, to literal fucking daemons from hell. And those are just the ones that get training. Conscripts get issued a pamphlet on how to point their flashlights, and a complimentary wheel barrel to drag around their giant fucking testicles. And they're lucky if the Munitorum printed off enough pamphlets!

[Klomster]

Wheelbarrows are not munitorum standard field issue and the imperial guard will have to fashion those for themselves in the field under commissarial supervision.
The imperial infantryman's uplifting primer however IS, and to claim that the brave soldiers of the imperium don't get the equipment they need in battle against our enemies is bordering on heresy.