Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Andreyich]

Except that is incomparable, they were pointing out that the left group violence was overlooked by media as a separate matter, even if pertinent. Your friend or this woman deserves your condolences as a victim of beo-nazisn but the cops hut by the left groups somehow don't deserve mention???

[POOHEAD189]

Except that is incomparable, they were pointing out that the left group violence was overlooked by media as a separate matter, even if pertinent. Your friend or this woman deserves your condolences as a victim of beo-nazisn but the cops hut by the left groups somehow don't deserve mention???

@Andreyich

Believe it or not I agree with you. There are BLM peeps who call for the death of policeman. However if Trump wanted to be effective, he should have waited a week or two and provided evidence of radical leftists, rather than pretty much doing what I posted.

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

Believe it or not I agree with you. There are BLM peeps who call for the death of policeman. However if Trump wanted to be effective, he should have waited a week or two and provided evidence of radical leftists, rather than pretty much doing what I posted.

@POOHEAD189

That's an indictment of Trump as a poor President (dont hurt me mdk) though, not of anything else

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

That's an indictment of Trump as a poor President (dont hurt me mdk) though, not of anything else

@Andreyich

As a history major who's taken multiple courses and written essays on the civil war, I can tell you now I know that a lot of leftists are into the mob mentality and don't deign to look up facts. Like how Robert E. Lee freed his slaves, petitioned for african americans to gain a good education after the war, and the south would have abolished slavery due to industrialization in 20 years anyway. But instead you have people with no historical studies commenting on the civil war as if they've got a degree.

However, because of that huge mentality that as long as there's millions of them they'll think they're right, it's just hard to talk to them about much of anything until stuff has calmed down. At least we can agree that Trump could have handled that better.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America." - Donald Trump

I am not exactly seeing the issue with what was said here that allows for such a reaction. Oddly enough, there has been enough word out for the time being that there are witnesses coming forward confirming this is correct; that there was violence by both factions. Unless the President of the United States made some other comment on it that I have either glossed over or did not recognize as being "provocative" for not condemning everything that happened, this is a fairly accurate thing to say.

If anything I believe people are falling prey to the way it is being presented, what is being presented, and their very own emotions in it. Suddenly this is somehow more real because a Nazi drove a car into a crowd of people and killed one. Does it really matter who did it?

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote>
I am not exactly seeing the issue with what was said here that allows for such a reaction. Oddly enough, there has been enough word out for the time being that there are witnesses coming forward confirming this is correct; that there was violence by both factions. Unless the President of the United States made some other comment on it that I have either glossed over or did not recognize as being "provocative" for not condemning everything that happened, this is a fairly accurate thing to say.

If anything I believe people are falling prey to the way it is being presented, what is being presented, and their very own emotions in it. Suddenly this is somehow more real because a Nazi drove a car into a crowd of people and killed one. Does it really matter who did it?

@The Harbinger of Ferocity

Actually it makes all the difference. First blood (fatal) is the bad guys

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

Then I believe both sides are well past implicated in this situation, @Andreyich. Both have actual or attempted fatalities inflicted by them and their message historically. The only difference was that this time it was not socially or politically convenient. I am almost certain people would have cheered in greater number if the roles were switched one for one. No one outside the family or their friends are likely to shed a tear for a Nazi, Klansmen, or some other vein of white supremacist being mowed down by a speeding car. It would have been excused, just like the notion of "Punching Nazis." acceptable, but somehow striking out Communists isn't as we know from Berkeley.

Of course it would have made headlines, sensationalism sells, but it would be very unlikely to have the reaction it did. I strongly doubt the Boston Free Speech Rally would have garnered so many "counter-protesters" or been of nearly as much focus by itself in this sample case.

[mickilennial]

As a history major who's taken multiple courses and written essays on the civil war, I can tell you now I know that a lot of leftists are into the mob mentality and don't deign to look up facts. Like how Robert E. Lee freed his slaves, petitioned for african americans to gain a good education after the war, and the south would have abolished slavery due to industrialization in 20 years anyway. But instead you have people with no historical studies commenting on the civil war as if they've got a degree.

@POOHEAD189

I love Robert E. Lee as a historical figure, but he was a lot more complicated than that. He also believed that blacks shouldn’t have the vote, were inferior to white men and women, and by some accounts was ruthless with how he treated his father’s slaves for a time. He was also a spiteful and petty man, just not in regards to the victory of the Union over the Confederacy. While I agree that the near-sighted perspective of history by the ignorant and uneducated is an issue you cannot just hand-waive all of Lee's problematic issues because he was against confederate statues and the few positive views he had on blacks.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>
I love Robert E. Lee as a historical figure, but he was a lot more complicated than that. He also believed that blacks shouldn’t have the vote, were inferior to white men and women, and by some accounts was ruthless with how he treated his father’s slaves for a time. He was also a spiteful and petty man, just not in regards to the victory of the Union over the Confederacy. While I agree that the near-sighted perspective of history by the ignorant and uneducated is an issue you cannot just hand-waive all of Lee's problematic issues because he was against confederate statues and the few positive views he had on blacks.

@Inkarnate

He believed they shouldn't vote because they were uneducated, not because they were black, which is why he sought for them to have an education. And I have seen no hard evidence to suggest he was anymore near-sighted when it came to race than anyone else (granted, even most Northerners back then were very racist. There was a reason why the civil rights movement had to happen a century later), especially since those slaves whom he freed seem to hold complete loyalty for him afterwards. Though yes, he could definitely be petty from some of his quotes.

I never claimed he was a perfect man, but there was a reason for former Slaves such as Mack Lee held him in awe, and there were also reasons he wasn't hung as a traitor when the war ended, but was allowed to live in peace, and even had a voice in politics. I'm just against people making him synonymous with a mustache twirling villain when he very much was not.

[mickilennial]

I'm just against people making him synonymous with a mustache twirling villain when he very much was not.

@POOHEAD189

Yeah, I agree. Robert E. Lee was a complicated individual in a complicated time. People are too busy thinking of looking at history through a modern lens rather than an objective one.

[mdk]

Actually it makes all the difference. First blood (fatal) is the bad guys

@Andreyich

remember less than two months ago when someone opened fire on 1/3rd of the GOP congress at a baseball practice? First blood was a while ago.

....That's not, you know, that's not to say the fucking KKK are the "good guys." I'm just saying, 'first blood' is a fantasy. It all depends on when you feel like starting the clock, and we've all got pretty terrible memories. Maybe "first blood" was Freddie Gray. Maybe it was Reagan. Maybe we're just all the same crazy animal and should stop beating each other to death over the mythical moral high ground. Your side isn't a saint, the other side isn't the devil, the election is over. Go on about your lives.

CNN is fake news! Apart from the few times when mdk decides that they aren't.

@Dynamo Frokane

I know you're joking, but I still think it's true. Are we playing that game again? It's a very fun game for me to play.

[POOHEAD189]

....That's not, you know, that's not to say the fucking KKK are the "good guys." I'm just saying

@mdk

I lol'ed

[mdk]

lol

[Andreyich]

You're right that there is no true first blood and we can keep going back to the actual nazis, to the actual commies, then to their predecessor groups like the Paris Commune, but we are talking of this specific event at Charlottesville and here the lefties got killed first.

Also that article offends me the first blackshirts were Imperial Russia's Black Hundreds

[Dolerman]

Are we playing that game again? It's a very fun game for me to play.

@mdk

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

jes.....

no. Done, done is what I said, done is what I am. Goodbye dynamo.

@mdk

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Sort of like how not all Trump voters are neo-nazis but all neo-nazis voted for Trump? ;)

@Penny

Not all bisexual women are fans of Halsey but all Halsey fans are bisexual women.

[mdk]

[Penny]

Not all bisexual women are fans of Halsey but all Halsey fans are bisexual women.

@Dynamo Frokane

Who is Halsey in this context?

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Who is Halsey in this context?

@Penny

[Penny]

Not all bisexual women are fans of Halsey but all Halsey fans are bisexual women.

@Dynamo Frokane

Never heard of her, I'll have to listen and find out if I am bisexual. I'm sure a number of naval historians are breathing easier though.