Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by Kratesis>
How pathetic. I guess the Spanish government doesn't want some of their people to break off and form their own country, lest they actually know how to run a government that doesn't end up repeating this:



We'll just have to wait and see what the rest of the world's governments will say and do about this.


WORLD BALKANIZATION TIME! EVERY SQUARE MILE WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND IT WILL WORK PERFECTLY!!11!!
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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Or maybe Spain should stop electing idiots that habitually run their government into the ground? I consider this Catalan independence ordeal a different flavor of the Brexit phenomenon.

Britain isn't forming a wholly new state. Also, Brexit negotiations are going down the shitter and so will this.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Alright, let's go through each of those.


I'm not gonna do the point-by-point thing. The point is this -- businesses have one, and only one, decision-making process -- where can I make the most money? That is the only reason anybody invests in any country. When we see big companies building here, that represents a growing consensus that America will be the best place to make money.

Business-friendly national policies are the only thing a free market can do to lure investors.... okay that's overstating. Friendly policy is the carrot, tariffs are the stick. Trump is wielding both. Investment is up and unemployment is down and the stock market has literally never been better.

PS -- the national debt was only $10.6t when Obama took office, and it shot up to $19.9t by the time Trump took office. If you're serious about reducing national debt, then you must acknowledge a drastic change was necessary.

How much did they gain from the corporate tax cuts again?


Tons, I hope. The more they benefit, the more other companies will follow suit.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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anarchosocialist.


And we were getting on so well...
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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your tolerance with regards to the open invitation for corporations to waltz in and suck on the government's mammaries. As a visual aid, picture the left breast with "Subsidies" tattooed on it, and the right breast with "Corporate Tax Cuts" tattooed on it.


That's totally backwards. The government does not produce a dime. I mean.... okay technically they produce the actual physical dimes, yes, I'm aware. Every dollar the Feds have is one they've taken from you, or from the market. So in the tit-sucking analogy, you have to picture the government as a toddler sitting in a pile of its own shit, reaching for your boobs and screaming "GIVE ME MOAR."

That's not a number. Also, if they get sizable tax cuts, wouldn't you agree that it'd be fair for them to also stop getting so many subsidies?


Sure. I'd also agree that with the simplification of the tax code, a whoooooole lot of deductions, exemptions, and other allowances should be removed. The whole process should get significantly more intuitive, open, honest, etc. Up until now it's been "The tax rate is X, and you'll pay Y, based on how much Z you give to A, B, or C, and if you D your money you can also subtract E and F."

How about just 20% period and call it a day. Because for all you know, a flat 20% could be a tax increase for a lot of companies.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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Santa wears red, and he's in China because he's actually a communist hoping to spread the world revolution!
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<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

Santa wears red, and he's in China because he's actually a communist hoping to spread the world revolution!

Follow the ideology and free toys for all?
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<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

Santa wears red, and he's in China because he's actually a communist hoping to spread the world revolution!


Comrade Klaus
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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I would love to tax every corporation until they bled but just as a companies must price their products competitively countries must also maintain a competitive tax rate.
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<Snipped quote by Kratesis>
But you agree that there's a difference between a "competitive tax rate", and an "open invitation to sodomize an entire country by abusing an easily exploitable tax code", right?


I agree that there is a difference between those two things but I imagine we would disagree on what is competitive and what is unnecessary.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Can't we discuss something important? Like the difference between the Sarissa and the 16th century pike? Or the evolution of the arming sword to the sidesword/backsword?
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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npr.org/2017/08/07/541797699/fact-che…

I don't know where.... oh I see it. Okay. so your graph is looking at tax as percent of total federal revenue, and not actual tax rate. That's a misleading graph, and technically you've just argued that setting a corporate tax rate of zero would leave 93% of the federal revenue completely in-tact.

The actual corporate tax rate in the US is the highest in the world (35%).
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@catchamber When I set prices I set them where I need them to be in order to meet my needs. If I need to clear inventory quickly, then the price goes below the market rate by a significant amount. If I just want to make a consistent profit than the price is below the market rate by the bare minimum necessary to make the sale.

(There is a problem in this country, and in many others, with people who have no expertise in a complex matter offering their opinion as if it is fact. This is especially noticeable in economics where many young people are certain they have the solution to the worlds economic problems despite the fact they can't even solve their own problems which are typically much smaller and simpler than the issues that plague the global economy. If someone goes fifty thousand dollars into debt for a graduates degree in dance therapy then their opinion on a household budget should be taken with several grains of salt, to say nothing of trillion dollar economies. I am not immune either; there are limits to my expertise so I don't want my statement here to be taken as a prescription to solve all national ills, just an observation of a principle.)

With the above in mind I would suggest that our government should do the same as I do. Choose the markets in which we wish to be competitive. Observe our competitors and set the tax rate for that market at a level which incentivizes corporations in said markets to move here. When we want to make a rapid change, for whatever reason, tax at a rate well below our competitors for that industry.

A few notes:

1. The current strategy seems to be "Compete in all markets all the time." In my experience this isn't possible.
2. Additionally we seem to be attempting to compete in all markets all the time with the exact same incentives for each market regardless of the individual particularities of that market. Of course the problem is that any attempt to individualize incentives for various markets will open the door to pork, graft and a multitude of special interest lobbying. Ultimately I feel we are too factionalized and too corrupt to pursue an optimal strategy here.
3. Taxes are not the only incentives. It isn't always necessary to tax at a lower rate than a competitor because we have other incentives to offer. Conversely merely lowering taxes will not always be sufficient because other nations may have incentives we do not. Many third world nations are attractive not because of their tax rate but because of their limited regulation, limited liability, lower costs and vastly lower wages. As such we should remember that we have a stick as well as a carrot.
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