Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>
I'm not saying the people that were present at the rallies believe one thing or another. Rather, media articles Andreyich is criticizing are saying that some of the people present were far-right and/or fascist, but he's saying that he has evidence that they espoused little to no views that call for genocide. If he actually has evidence to back up his assertion, I'd appreciate it. I obviously won't ask the writers of the articles for their proof, because they're not here.

@catchamber

You should already have their proof, because that's exactly their job.

[Polymorpheus]

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[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>
The way I see it, Andreyich is making a claim. Without providing evidence, his claim is baseless. I don't care about the articles, but I do care about him claiming that he has evidence that the 60,000 people at the rally espoused little to no views that call for genocide. While his claim isn't necessarily wrong just because he doesn't provide evidence to support it, it's basically useless. I could say that the 60,000 people at the rally espoused the view that the world is flat, and it would be a claim that's equally as baseless and useless as his.

@catchamber

Or for instance, someone could claim that the rallies called for genocide, and it would be a claim that's equally as baseless and useless as his.

You're getting this concept, right? "THEY WERE RACIST." Ho, hum, okay then. "Uh, I was there, they weren't." WHERE'S YOUR PROOF YOU USELESS BASELESS MORON!?!?

[Polymorpheus]

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[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>
You do get that I'm not supporting the articles, right? I'm just asking Andreyich to provide the evidence for his claims. If he had just left it at, "Where's the proof that they're pro-genocide?", I would've been like, "Yeah, that's a good point." But, he said that he was actually there when the rallies took place. His personal experience could be evidence, but he hasn't proven that he was actually there to gather said evidence.

@catchamber

Here's where I jumped in:

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
Can you explain how, by being in Warsaw when these rallies took place, you know that the 60,000 people which were present espouse little to no views that call for genocide? If you spent just 1 second sampling each person's views, you'd have spent at least 16 hours sampling all 60,000 people. I'm rather skeptical that you accomplished such a feat, but if you have any quantifiable statistics to back up your assertion, I'd love to review them.

@catchamber

So like...... that's not what that looks like to me. The impression I got from that post wasn't "Oh, he's just saying that he wants evidence that Andre was there, and then he'll weigh everything appropriately." What I got from that post, and what prompted me to stick my nose where it don't belong, was "....well like you can't prove that NONE OF THEM were genocidal, with, like, stats or something, so like whatever dude."

Apologies if I'm misreading. It's starting to sound like you would have a similar complaint, if you perceived a post the way I perceived yours.

[Polymorpheus]

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[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone about what happened at Warsaw. I just want quantifiable evidence about what happened, specifically from the immediately accessible person that claims to have been there and personally experienced the rallies.

@catchamber

That's kind of a weird tone to take with that person, if you're not taking sides.

Then again it's Andre.

[Polymorpheus]

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[Andreyich]

Can you explain how, by being in Warsaw when these rallies took place, you know that the 60,000 people which were present espouse little to no views that call for genocide? If you spent just 1 second sampling each person's views, you'd have spent at least 16 hours sampling all 60,000 people. I'm rather skeptical that you accomplished such a feat, but if you have any quantifiable statistics to back up your assertion, I'd love to review them.

Do you have anything to the reverse?

[Dolerman]

Many thanks to @SleepingSilence@Kassarock@catchamber@The Harbinger of Ferocity for joining me in voice chat yesterday (before my tablet died) as cat man suggested, lets pick a time when we can all come on again, maybe with a pre-selected topic.

[Polymorpheus]

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[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

I find myself amused it went as well as it did, at least where I was concerned in my brief time there before disappearing as I am prone to do, @Dynamo Frokane. One of the rare times I ever make a spoken appearance.

[POOHEAD189]

So how's about that local sports team?

[mdk]

So how's about that local sports team?

@POOHEAD189

GQ's Citizen of the Year, plus one

One of these two athletes raised over $37 million for hurricane relief. The other did literally nothing. Who won? You decide!

[POOHEAD189]

So I literally made my post to be unpolitical, and yet somehow

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
I'm asking for your proof, not arguing for the opposite.

@catchamber

I don't have to prove that someone isn't (X) I have to do naught, it is you who needs clear evidence here.

[Polymorpheus]

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[Andreyich]

I forgot that to catchamber burden of proof is something that happens to other people

[Polymorpheus]

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[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>
You're claiming that you were at the rallies in Warsaw, and that you observed something there. Prove it, or it's irrelevant hearsay.

@catchamber

Not getting into whose wrong or right. But even him being at that place, when it happened wouldn't change that. Most people cannot cover a whole protest or rally 24/7. It would still become anecdotal evidence anyway.

So, you're asking for evidence, that even if he directly gave you. (Like some recording on the event that showed, for as long as he was around and where he was. He still likely could not give you an 100% certainty.) So you wouldn't be satisfied with it. So you shouldn't ask for evidence, if it something that wouldn't effect your opinion about it.

So as @mdk said. It sort of is-getting into an impossible burden of proof fallacy. Whether you believe so or not.

Though just skimming through Warsaw online. I'm getting a shit ton of conflicting stuff in exactly what went down. There was a celebration for Trump's arrival, a fight over an abortion law and apparently this random far right protest too? Poor Poland. <.< *i could be mistaken about this I did say skimmed*