Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[POOHEAD189]

If someone said that to you in real life you would back the hell away without making eye contact.

Well that's a loose translation. Another one is 'if you are my friends, do as I do.' I mean if what he tells them gives them eternal life (if one subscribes), and they believe it, then it's not the weirdest thing to say. He just got done saying that what he does is based on what the father wants, so they should do as he does.

Of course if you don't believe it sounds off the walls, but if you do it makes sense in the context of the texts.

Boys boys, both of your imaginary friends are pretty.

@Penny

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

I mean, it's heretical. Blasphemy is a pretty specific thing and it's bad (in some teachings, unforgivable -- seems like a stretch, but that's the sort of gravity the word implies). Heretical just means it's outside the teachings of Christ, which is a much broader word. God's got all kinds of love for heretics (as he must, because at some point all of us were/are heretics and we all do heretical things all the time). The parable of the prodigal son is the best summary of how that all plays out.

<Snipped quote>

eh. And also, that's not something Paul dreamed up. And also again -- Luke wasn't an apostle, so he and Paul are pretty much on a level.

END OF THE DAY -- look we're saying the same thing. Only reason I jumped in with an argument was like.... it's not a "have to" situation, if you actually believe that Jesus is who he said he was, then that belief ought (naturally) to cause in that person a desire to do good things. If it doesn't, then it wasn't faith in the first place.

@mdk

Yeah, I think we're pretty much agreed other than semantics, or delving into the Council of Nicea which is something I think we should not do. So, I getcha^^

[POOHEAD189]

double post :P

[Penny]

people already think doctors play god

@SleepingSilence

Yeah! For millions of years people were dying of preventable disease just like nature intended. Then we come along with our 'modern medicine' and start playing god. What jerks we are. Cant even get a decent case of smallpox anymore.

[Penny]

I think we should retranslate it as:

Do what I say or my Dad (who is also me) is gonna mess you up!

Parentheticals constitute sotto voce in this context.

[Penny]

Also how is there not a beer called smallpox so you can get a case of it?

[mdk]

[POOHEAD189]

Also how is there not a beer called smallpox so you can get a case of it?

@Penny

To protect humanity from the overflow of puns!

[POOHEAD189]

I was trying to find a native meme for the small pox joke and I stumbled onto a gold mine of them.

[IceHeart]

I think we should retranslate it as:

Do what I say or my Dad (who is also me) is gonna mess you up!

@Penny

Well that is certainly taking things wildly out of context.

No where is it implied that Jesus is going to go out of his way to punish people just because they aren't doing what He told them. People can choose not to be friends with God by deciding not to follow him but that doesn't mean he isn't waiting and yearning for them to change their minds, in his love her will wait for his creations to love him back. Jesus wants to be our best friend and savior but ultimately it is the people's choice to decide. The natural consequence of not choosing God is death. Despite knowing this, God acknowledges the person's decision to separate themselves from his love and power which is the only thing capable of giving us eternal life because he wants it to be our choice.

It is not God who messes you up, but your own decisions and life-choices that do so, since at the core of Christianity, is freedom of choice to choose who you want to be with, God or yourself. If you choose yourself the obvious end is death as we do not have the power to give ourselves eternal life.

[Dion]

Christian Theology

<Snipped quote by mdk>
You're not entirely wrong. I never said you need to earn your way to heaven. That's why I clarified with phrases such as 'Of course, since we are human, all of that is pretty much impossible. But to attempt to live in the faith, as much as you can, is something God wishes.' True belief merits action. One who does believe will acts accordingly.

<Snipped quote>
<Snipped quote>
and the most important one

<Snipped quote>

Now, theologically, it is true to say that no amount of good works can 'buy' someone into heaven. Because Heaven is a perfect paradise and no man is perfect, therefore no one is ever worthy. However, to not attempt to live a live of giving and kindness is also blasphemous. To put it simply:

If you love Jesus, you'll care about following him. If you care about following him, you'll do christ-like things. If you do christ-like things, you'd be a follower. Someone cannot say 'I love God and am a believer' and then regularly cheat on his wife, for instance.

Also always take Romans with a grain of salt. Not to say it is false, per say. However, Paul is not Jesus. Romans and the like is secondary compared to books like Luke.

---

Norse Paganism

<Snipped quote by Odin>

Didn't Audumbla the Cow lick the first Aesir out of ice and not salt? I don't recall reading a translation that claimed it was salt, or salt water.

@POOHEAD189

You are correct and false - and this is the perfect chance to remind people that we don't have all the details about the Norse faith. This is an issue of contentment but the standard is that he did indeed lick it from a block of ice - but some more obscure translations from older books insist it's a salt block (like those that we give to horses). I'm not sure myself but I always liked the salt block more. The essence of the story doesn't really change either which is the danger of oral tradition because things change over time.

[SleepingSilence]

@Penny Equally respecting all religious practices. Though yes.

Also, I'm not someone against doctors...(hence why I said "people", and didn't include me anywhere in that sentence.) Both my parents are in the medical field. So when I get into arguments about just how healthy pot is for you, I have enough actual secondhand knowledge to roll my eyes. But I still wouldn't want assisted suicide to be a thing. There's enough frivolous lawsuits given to doctors. They don't need more. (where's the thumbs up for that pro-doctor message? No? Just when it's something being misinterpreted? Okay.)

That's incredibly arrogant to take it that way. 11 billion dollars is money that could be going into ANYTHING else. And the point of that study, isn't about money but about the survival rate. So all these people do, is make themselves go through a bunch of hospital time and waste a ton of money in the process. It's never going to be "profitable", can't really make someone pay if their dead. My point of bringing up cost, is the defense of "it's hurting no one else," when it's going to very likely financially burden someone else. (especially if it becomes legal.)

"The average cost of one suicide was $1,329,553. More than 97 percent of this cost was due to lost productivity. The remaining 3 percent were costs associated with medical treatment. The total cost of suicides and suicide attempts was $93.5 billion."

sprc.org/about-suicide/costs

[POOHEAD189]

I'm surprised there's such a high number of people committing suicide by suffocation. That's such a slow way to go.

[Penny]

I'm surprised there's such a high number of people committing suicide by suffocation. That's such a slow way to go.

@POOHEAD189

The data I presented is percentage of successful attempts rather than percentage of attempts by a particular method. I'm not sure what the actual breakdown is in absolute terms.

[POOHEAD189]

The data I presented is percentage of successful attempts rather than percentage of attempts by a particular method. I'm not sure what the actual breakdown is in absolute terms.

@Penny

Oh I see. That makes more sense^^

[Penny]

[ I get into arguments about just how healthy pot is for you, I have enough actual secondhand knowledge to roll my eyes.

@SleepingSilence

I am so with you on this. I'm not saying it dosent have benefits in certain therapeutic circumstances but people need to stop pretending its some sort of panacea.

That's incredibly arrogant to take it that way. 11 billion dollars is money that could be going into ANYTHING else. And the point of that study, isn't about money but about the survival rate. So all these people do, is make themselves go through a bunch of hospital time and waste a ton of money in the process. It's never going to be "profitable", can't really make someone pay if their dead. My point of bringing up cost, is the defense of "it's hurting no one else," when it's going to very likely financially burden someone else. (especially if it becomes legal.)

"The average cost of one suicide was $1,329,553. More than 97 percent of this cost was due to lost productivity. The remaining 3 percent were costs associated with medical treatment. The total cost of suicides and suicide attempts was $93.5 billion."

sprc.org/about-suicide/costs

@SleepingSilence

Im a little confused as to what your point is here. Is it that unsuccessful suicide attempts are expensive in lost productivity?

I don't think anyone is arguing that suicide 'hurts no one' because its clearly emotionally devastating for family and friends. This is the best argument against suicide in my opinion because, as I said, we will all be dead soon anyway so why rush.

That being said, dying a slow and agonizing death of cancer also devastating for all involved. I think people should have an option to end their lives in a painless and dignified way.

[Penny]

@IceHeart

Am I correct in assuming you believe in a literal hell?

[POOHEAD189]

So when I get into arguments about just how healthy pot is for you, I have enough actual secondhand knowledge to roll my eyes.

@SleepingSilence

I am so with you on this. I'm not saying it dosent have benefits in certain therapeutic circumstances but people need to stop pretending its some sort of panacea.

@Penny

^^^^^ 1000%

[SleepingSilence]

Lost productivity! The horror. If attempted suicide is unprofitable, people should definitely rethink it.

@Penny

@Penny I just found the dismissal of suicide in that statement being a negative thing on many different levels, concerning. Suggesting it would somehow be viable, if it could become profitable or that's the only negative part. That much money being wasted was just pointing out an non-emotional argument of it being selfish (all the suffering of rehab and trauma of others being other examples.) But if that wasn't the point, fine. But I still just don't like the idea of making assisted suicide legal. Because that really is playing god at that point.

[Penny]

Because that really is playing god at that point.

@SleepingSilence

So rather than having a professional give you a painless and reliable barbituate to drink, its better that you buy a shotgun at walmart? In either case the individual makes the choice to act not the physician or the walmart clerk.

[SleepingSilence]

So rather than having a professional give you a painless and reliable barbituate to drink, its better that you buy a shotgun at walmart? In either case the individual makes the choice to act not the physician or the walmart clerk.

@Penny

No, I don't want suicide. Period. Hence the entire spiel about self gun wound to head thing. (Also that sentence confuses me, but I get the point.)

And I also already mentioned lawsuits...