Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[SleepingSilence]

"Alt-Right Ben Shapiro". Okay. You clearly know, literally anything. Mmm-hm.

[mdk]

Anything I show you, youd just call 'fake news'. challenging your conformation bias for lauren southern is something I'm not equppied to do.

OR, we could try civil conversation.

I wonder what could color their judgement?

@Penny

I see what you did there.

...nevermind. We're still doing that. Y'all just go ahead and get it out of your system. I'll try again later.

[Penny]

Awwww don't take your toys and go.

[POOHEAD189]

My understanding of Ben Shapiro is he is probably the best in a line of conservative 'reaction lawyers.' I.E. the right wing solution to the liberal Late Night hosts. And while the things he says are not wrong, he still does not necessarily prove any conservative points and mostly just checks whatever leftist claims he can. Steven Crowder is like a less intelligent, less popular version of him. I don't exactly respect any of them, even of Shapiro isn't an idiot. He's still more of a lawyer for the idealogy than any kind of political activist.

[mdk]

My understanding of Ben Shapiro is he is probably the best in a line of conservative 'reaction lawyers.' I.E. the right wing solution to the liberal Late Night hosts. And while the things he says are not wrong, he still does not necessarily prove any conservative points and mostly just checks whatever leftist claims he can. Steven Crowder is like a less intelligent, less popular version of him. I don't exactly respect any of them, even of Shapiro isn't an idiot. He's still more of a lawyer for the idealogy than any kind of political activist.

@POOHEAD189

Ben Shapiro is better and more correct than Trump and/or the GOP at large. I dunno if there's anyone in politics (or political theater, I guess you have to say) more reasoned than he is, and I respect the hell out of that.

Dunno if THUG LIFE is a winning strategy in the long run, but hey, Trump is president, so......?

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 You didn't actually really say anything thing substantive there. Merely giving slanderous opinions. But you didn't specify on a thing or argument said by the people in question. (Or even really get into anything you disagree with.) You don't respect Ben because you don't consider him a political activist? The helk? Is that all it takes?

Also, where's the evidence of Steven Crowder been less popular than Ben Shapiro? Says who? What numbers are we going off of here? Yeah, Ben has more twitter 1.5 million twitter followers. But Steven Crowder has 1.5 million subscribers on youtube. (And since all people on twitter are bots.) I don't really know where you're getting those numbers...I don't think you actually -know- the numbers. But you wanted to throw a random jab at someone likely far more intelligent than many "political activists".

@mdk
Actually, there's a recent debate Ben Shapiro got into between Tucker Carlson, on automation and jobs lost from it. And I think he slightly misrepresented what Carlson was saying. And I'm not entirely sure I agree with some of the statements said. Or at least think it could be contended. No one is perfect. But when the progressive left has nobody like Shapiro or Crowder, all they can do is discredit him through something about his identity, label them. Not actually talk about what he's incorrect about. Like other real conservatives have done before.

[mdk]

Actually, there's a recent debate Ben Shapiro got into between Tucker Carlson, on automation and jobs lost from it. And I think he slightly misrepresented what Carlson was saying. And I'm not entirely sure I agree with some of the statements said. Or at least think it could be contended. No one is perfect. But when the progressive left has nobody like Shapiro or Crowder, all they can do is discredit him through something about his identity, label them. Not actually talk about what he's incorrect about. Like other real conservatives have done before.

@SleepingSilence

Tucker's fun and all, but if you're asking me to choose, only one of these options is owned by Fox News.

Anyway I only ever get the highlights from either talking head, so I'm not sure if that counts as "knowing what I'm talking about." But from my limited exposure I'll err on the side of Shapiro, easily.

[Vera]

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/03/14/dungeons-and-dragons-genderfluid-elves/

[SleepingSilence]

@mdk Well don't choose based on the person speaking it. Everyone has their favorite personalities. But what do you feel about the subject at hand? :P Or do you not have any opinion?

[POOHEAD189]

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/03/14/dungeons-and-dragons-genderfluid-elves/

@Vera

I would go "oh neat" but I cannot ignore that it says it started with the Drow!!?!?!? A matriarchy society! Gender has everything to do with status! Gender fluidity would collapse the entire Matriarchy! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

---

@POOHEAD189 You didn't actually really say anything thing substantive there. Merely giving slanderous opinions. But you didn't specify on a thing or argument said by the people in question. (Or even really get into anything you disagree with.) You don't respect Ben because you don't consider him a political activist? The helk? Is that all it takes?

Also, where's the evidence of Steven Crowder been less popular than Ben Shapiro? Says who? What numbers are we going off of here? Yeah, Ben has more twitter 1.5 million twitter followers. But Steven Crowder has 1.5 million subscribers on youtube. (And since all people on twitter are bots.) I don't really know where you're getting those numbers...I don't think you actually -know- the numbers. But you wanted to throw a random jab at someone likely far more intelligent than many "political activists".

@SleepingSilence

I don't respect Ben like I don't respect Crowder, who is a political commentator. Because Ben Shapiro is more of a defender of conservative views in order to combat a leftist agenda, rather than actually trying to push an agenda that he believes will make a better world. Which is why I call him a lawyer. He doesn't have views that happen to be conservative and so that's why he is in the party. He signed up to just try and disprove leftists. While he is intelligent, he uses it to present a case for the conservative party so other conservatives who are too stupid to understand things can go "Yeah! Exactly!"

That's not even to discredit him. I never said he lied, though he is inherently biased, which is what his job is essentially.

As for popularity, it's just a guess. He seems more popular than Crowder, though he's definitely more intelligent.

[POOHEAD189]

Ben Shapiro is better and more correct than Trump and/or the GOP at large.

@mdk

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 I don't mean to be crass, since you're free to hold that opinion. (Blame being sick and tired.) But that just shows a blatant misunderstanding of Ben Shapiro, as far as I'm concerned. Ben Shapiro has been politically active, before he was ever popular. And he himself has gone after people like Milo Yiannopoulos, who he says he dislikes people that are just in it to be provocateurs.

What I hear from that is you don't respect them because "bias" or more accurately because they hold conservative or right leaning values...there's nothing else I can get from it. Also, going on a side tangent. Being educated or having a higher I.Q doesn't always make you more correct. If you actively make I.Q or intelligence a moral/character judgement. You lead down a really negative road.

[Heat]

Did someone say Ben Shapiro?

[POOHEAD189]

@SleepingSilence I could definitely be wrong, tbh. I don't follow him closely.
I don't hold any dislike for conservative views or politicians unless they give me reason to. It just usually seems to me like most conservative commentators try to make 'aha' points rather than "America would be better because this." Shapiro seems to be the most intelligent of that lot, though he's still apart of it from what I have seen.

[SleepingSilence]

@Heat Hmm...Is it worth my time or yours debunking that meme? :I

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 Well I at least try to look into people, before I actually have an opinion on them. But I can't say I've ever had wrong first impressions. So I'll leave it at that.

Though, I mean there's probably a hint of truth to that. There's a political saying. "The left wants the right to shut up, and the right wants the left to keep talking."

The difference in tactics is obvious. I mean there's evidence for this all around. One disregards outright, the other shows all and mocks. Neither is always particularly the most useful. But when people say "I don't watch fox news, because...well I've never seen it but it's clearly ridiculous." VS, The alt-right, watching and laughing at every single CNN says and shoving it in as many faces as possible.

Both can be obnoxious. But it's clear, that one side when they're doing this, are perfectly confident in being correct.

I mean, there's proof right here. When I posted an article. No one looked at it, picked something out of it. And mocked it. It was disregarded as biased and admitted to being ignored.

I don't try to label the right and left (though by mentioning such, it's inevitable.) Because I do think that certain people's believes that conservatives and liberals are actually your friends, and the world never succeeded (was never meant to be) under a one party/extreme modernism system. While I can't say I've ever seen it in practice. It's still an interesting idea and I do admit that there's some truth into the political difference often come from personality traits. Like Jordan Peterson goes into, generally speaking that the left is better at creativity and coming up with new ideas for a the business. And the right is better at implementation and running the business. Both need to listen to one another. Which I agree with.

[mdk]

@mdk Well don't choose based on the person speaking it. Everyone has their favorite personalities. But what do you feel about the subject at hand? :P Or do you not have any opinion?

@SleepingSilence

...wait there's a topic at hand? Share?

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

@POOHEAD189

[SleepingSilence]

@mdk

Ben Responding to this article/full video.



amgreatness.com/2018/03/14/why-ben-sh…

Here's some for context. But the discussion is on automation and if it has negative impacts on the economy or more specifically working in trade jobs. Ben sort of misrepresented Tucker's argument, like it was about Trade/Tariff's. When it wasn't.

[mdk]

Here's some for context. But the discussion is on automation and if it has negative impacts on the economy or more specifically working in trade jobs. Ben sort of misrepresented Tucker's argument, like it was about Trade/Tariff's. When it wasn't.

@SleepingSilence

Well it's just my read, but it seems like Ben's going after Tucker's core assumptions (jobs correlate to family strength, therefore the government should enact policy that protects jobs), then carrying that straight into the (somewhat) related topic of Trump's tariffs.

For my part, I think both sides have great points, both on the thing that Tucker was talking about (yes technology advancements can damage the family; no, that's not necessarily bad; yes, in the case of trucking that could spell big problems; no I don't think we should STOP it or regulate it to death, but let's talk anyway, conversation worth having on a problem worth avoiding); and also on the thing that Ben actually wants to talk about (Free trade is good; Trump has a point that it's only as free as it is fair; tariffs may wind up doing more harm than good; NOT having reciprocal tariffs has worked best for everybody else, and if we're really trying to do what's best for us, maybe there's some value in putting away the carrot and taking out the stick, if only as a negotiating tactic that ultimately brings everyone closer to free AND fair).