Trump drops the MOAB (artist's rendition)

[mdk]

[KnightShade]

Thank god that warmonger Hillary wasn't elected

[Vilageidiotx]

I heard about this when someone told me that Trump dropped "The biggest bomb ever" on Afghanistan, which I gotta say is one of the scariest things to hear, because I was thinking...



After that was cleared up, it became boring information. News talking about it like ISIS is one place and Trump was the first person to think up bombing it, rather than this just being the gajillionith bomb we've tossed over there in our "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" version of foreign policy.

[mdk]

After that was cleared up, it became boring information. News talking about it like ISIS is one place and Trump was the first person to think up bombing it, rather than this just being the gajillionith bomb we've tossed over there in our "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" version of foreign policy.

@Vilageidiotx

If we really did disable the tunnel network (or even just a part of it), this is a radical development. Personally I think the Syria strike, then the MOAB drop, were both timed to coincide with the fucking armada on its way to the DPRK. Lil' Kim is accustomed to some drone strikes; he (and China, our potential ally) needed to be reminded what we can do without chucking nukes.

[Lucian]

If it actually had any impact on this tunnel network, then great. Just can't help thinking this isn't a problem one can solve with firepower alone. It's a war of ideologies.

[mdk]

If it actually had any impact on this tunnel network, then great. Just can't help thinking this isn't a problem one can solve with firepower alone. It's a war of ideologies.

@Lucian

It's certainly not a war we can win on ideology alone, or we wouldn't still be here.

[Lucian]

<Snipped quote by Lucian>

It's certainly not a war we can win on ideology alone, or we wouldn't still be here.

@mdk

Not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves and our interests, just saying that it's a mindset that stems from a certain culture and set of beliefs, and bombs don't change that sort of thing.

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

Not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves and our interests, just saying that it's a mindset that stems from a certain culture and set of beliefs, and bombs don't change that sort of thing.

@Lucian

On the contrary, bombs change mindsets all the time. Shit, we're posting in English after all. We didn't win the various world wars because of our superior identity politics.

Anywho the reason the MOAB makes me happy... when you talk a big game and don't follow through, that's really bad. When you back up your words with decisive action, your words have meaning again. THAT is the essential step towards peace.

[Lucian]

<Snipped quote by Lucian>

On the contrary, bombs change mindsets all the time. Shit, we're posting in English after all. We didn't win the various world wars because of our superior identity politics.

Anywho the reason the MOAB makes me happy... when you talk a big game and don't follow through, that's really bad. When you back up your words with decisive action, your words have meaning again. THAT is the essential step towards peace.

@mdk

I'm gonna clarify my above post: Bombs will not do away with religious radicalism. I mean I agree with you, I'm just saying that it's something that needs to be fought on more than just a battlefield, ya know?

[BrokenPromise]

I'm just saying that it's something that needs to be fought on more than just a battlefield, ya know?

@Lucian

Exactly, we need spiritually strong leaders, who's words are backed by nukes!

[Lucian]

<Snipped quote by Lucian>

Exactly, we need spiritually strong leaders, who's words are backed by nukes!

@BrokenPromise

Hoooooo boy. Not what I meant. Unfortunately, it's what's happening.

[Vilageidiotx]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I'm gonna clarify my above post: Bombs will not do away with religious radicalism. I mean I agree with you, I'm just saying that it's something that needs to be fought on more than just a battlefield, ya know?

@Lucian

'fraid you can't make money that way.

[KnightShade]

<Snipped quote by Lucian>

On the contrary, bombs change mindsets all the time. Shit, we're posting in English after all. We didn't win the various world wars because of our superior identity politics.

@mdk

We can't ignore the development of the internet and growth of internationally available mass media. Ideologies now spread far more effectively across borders, with more independence from governments, armies and printed newspapers, than they did during the World Wars.

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

We can't ignore the development of the internet and growth of internationally available mass media. Ideologies now spread far more effectively across borders, with more independence from governments, armies and printed newspapers, than they did during the World Wars.

@KnightShade

That works both ways though. The MOAB drop spread far more effectively across borders too. Also since WW2, the US has vastly (Vaaaaaastly) increased its military superiority to every other nation on earth, so our shows-of-force are more effective than they've ever been (short of nuking).

Non-state actors have been kicking our ass in the information-sharing department for a long time, in no small part because the last two presidents took a vastly different approach. New sheriff, new strategy, and it's a pretty sound one.

[KnightShade]

<Snipped quote by KnightShade>

That works both ways though. The MOAB drop spread far more effectively across borders too. Also since WW2, the US has vastly (Vaaaaaastly) increased its military superiority to every other nation on earth, so our shows-of-force are more effective than they've ever been (short of nuking).

Non-state actors have been kicking our ass in the information-sharing department for a long time, in no small part because the last two presidents took a vastly different approach. New sheriff, new strategy, and it's a pretty sound one.

@mdk

I agree to some extent with that. I'm not going to pretend to understand fully the distinction between the strategies used, however the repetitive use of drone strikes didn't appear to be accomplishing anything to me. I don't necessarily favour a stronger approach than previously but I do favour a more purposeful one. I know that here in the UK for awhile our government only bothered to bomb ISIS before press releases, it was absurdly passe.

But globalised communications bring the fight home too. No matter how much spending you put into the military they can't fight a war in your own country. If we want to stop terrorism, which is supposedly what this is about, we have to engage in the ideological war at home too. Trump is vastly outgunned in that department. He's a caricature of an American who repeatedly seems incapable of seeing other viewpoints or stringing an argument together. He's done nothing but stir up divisions at home so far.

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I agree to some extent with that. I'm not going to pretend to understand fully the distinction between the strategies used, however the repetitive use of drone strikes didn't appear to be accomplishing anything to me. I don't necessarily favour a stronger approach than previously but I do favour a more purposeful one. I know that here in the UK for awhile our government only bothered to bomb ISIS before press releases, it was absurdly passe.

But globalised communications bring the fight home too. No matter how much spending you put into the military they can't fight a war in your own country. If we want to stop terrorism, which is supposedly what this is about, we have to engage in the ideological war at home too. Trump is vastly outgunned in that department. He's a caricature of an American who repeatedly seems incapable of seeing other viewpoints or stringing an argument together. He's done nothing but stir up divisions at home so far.

@KnightShade

"He's done nothing but stir up divisions at home so far" -- well, ah, um.... would you argue if I pointed out that the divisions are stirring themselves up? The stated objective of the Democrat party right now, right this very minute, is "make Trump furious." AntiFa is literally throwing bombs at pro-Trump rallies. "Impeach Trump" started before day one of the presidency. And I could go on and on, but the point is this: Trump isn't the one sowing discord here. If you're seeing a caricature you might wanna think about where you're getting your info. He's actually done quite a bit.

Anyway, moving back to the start of the post: drones honestly did accomplish quite a bit. The reason we're dealing with ISIS, and not Al Qaeda, is that we basically took AQ apart with drone strikes, bit by bit, piece by piece. It was very effective -- against the organization. What it failed to do was address the core ideology, because drones are the pinnacle of non-commitment. Drones are what you send when you don't care enough to put boots on the ground or even remotely near the ground. Like I said, still plenty effective in the short term. We killed a lot of terrorists with drones, and lots of them were senior leadership -- awesome, right? The MOAB was just one strike, so you can't exactly call it a strategy just yet, but it does a lot more than just kill a few guys. We destroyed an entire cave system -- that's a force-multiplier, it's what makes 100 or so terrorists seem like 500 because it enables them to do more damage.

.....and I'm getting a little into the weeds, so let's just slow it down and simplify. Obama's drone policy was under executive control -- basically he was running it. He controlled the rules of engagement. Trump has left all of that to one of the greatest military minds America has ever produced, and that's not an exaggeration, Mattis is a real-life anime war genius wunderkind. With one bomb, he's got these guys so rattled that they're already scrambling to make friends. (I know we hate them both, but they have not been friends).

TL:DR it's working, and we're not invading anybody. Hell we even got China to turn on the DPRK. Jesus it's all going so well.

[Vilageidiotx]

Let's not mythologize a war he hasn't fought yet. Even the pharaohs waited until after their battles before they did that.

[scribz]

MOAB dropped days after the bannon wing of the party lost their hold on the security council, establishment republicans back in the game. Same strategy as always, whatever makes military industrial money i.e. drop bombs. More derailing of any semblance of power structure in middle East and more middle easterns siding to ISIS.

It's like trying to fix a radio with a hammer.

[KnightShade]

@mdkI get my information on Trump from his own twitter feed, where he calls anyone who disagrees with him weak, a loser, or fake news/media. How is that anything other than fanning division? The democrats aren't blameless either, and especially not antifascist groups. Antifascists groups have a tendency to assume fascism is inevitable, so anything is justifiable to stop it, leading to them doing shitty things that damage their own cause. But antifascist groups aren't the only ones protesting Trump. And he's the President and they're not. He's supposed to have dignity and rise above pettiness. You can't blame everybody except the President, the buck is supposed to stop with him. I do mostly agree with you on the military points though, I like Trump's deference to generals.

[Vilageidiotx]

MOAB dropped days after the bannon wing of the party lost their hold on the security council, establishment republicans back in the game.

@scribz

The thing about Trump is that he is an ideological non-entity, that is what makes his presidency something of a wild card. Faction is going to be the main thing with the Trump years, and a some schizo blogger isn't going to be enough to outmaneuver the career guys.