[OOC] ATHLETIC AESTHETICS (Doc Vs. Negatomsk)

[Negatomsk]

You say the Beardforce ignores any and all defenses enacted? Let's say Brock Lesnar came over to your house right now, and you had a repeating crossbow. He blocks your bolts with a frying pan or something lying around, walks up in front of you, grabs your weapon, and headbutts you because you didn't do anything to try and gain a tactical advantage. That's not ignoring all defenses enacted, that's taking advantage of someone too rock stupid to know how to defend themselves.

Except the Beardforce is equivalent to Brock Lesnar walking through literally anything I have available in the house, including force fields, shotguns, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, an intangibility suit, and the ability to become a living math equation -- while powering through any and all of that with said frying pan alone -- to headbutt me.

No sane person would expect Mr. Lesnar to make it through a hellish obstacle course such as that with such a simple tool, because it wouldn't work, nor could they be blamed for their surprise when Lesnar powers through everything they threw at him with with a pan, because it's just not done.

So yes in your example, I was quite the moron, but the Beardforce states that nothing can withstand it, not even the fact that I, say, was also Brock Lesnar, headbutting myself.

Now, as for the metagaming claim, I have a few things to say.

You had full access to Gonad's profile and Arena fight history, and full well knew what you were getting into.

Once again, I point to this:

I'll admit I made some assumptions about how the Beardforce works, thanks to the specific wording therein, namely:

The Beardforce is based upon Gonad's perception of an opponent...

...which led me to believe that the Beardforce had calculated and adjusted Gonad's speed and power based on how strong he perceived Lobo Negro to be, and what he imagined him to be capable of after their first few exchanges in the fight itself, instead of by hopping over to the Character thread to read his sheet.

And as for access to all of your arena history? I don't read previous fights if I can avoid it. This isn't MMA -- I am not the one fighting -- so while me brushing up on your past matches to try to formulate a plan of action might be considered a viable strategy, in my opinion it's only an attempt to fill my own head with preconceptions about your character that my character honestly has no right to know beforehand, because they've never met.

Even if I were to fight you again, I'd feel uncomfortable using anyone but Lobo, because through my own head that character would enter the ring filled with the knowledge of how Lobo's match went, intentionally or unintentionally, and I would not want to chance that influencing my writing. Lobo, win or lose, has earned that knowledge, so anything I write from a second encounter is fair game.

Now truth be told I have seen one of your fights before, but that was only because you actively fought someone else in another thread I'd joined, and you lost that fight -- intentionally or not -- because your opponent refused to be bullied by the same shit you're using here, namely trying to ignore everything they did in their power to impede you, as you tried to tell them, time and time again, how effective their own attacks were against you, despite their every attempt to explain otherwise. Yeah, and eventually you took the loss and left, but not until you'd all but killed the thread with your sidetracking bullshit, and believe me if I'd remembered that you were the one behind that shit, I'd never have slogged into the mud here with you.

If anything you're the one trying to powergame, by trying to have Lobo simply ignore a blow to his skull from a guy that makes a living killing things with unarmed blunt force bludgeoning. Get fucking real.

I will quote back at you again, with even further emphasis:

Powergaming is telling someone for a fact that you know their character isn't able to take a hit simply because they learned a few special abilities during their years of exhaustive, physical combat training, except --

Those who master [the Eight Styles] are purported to possess supernatural powers, able to run across thin air, walk unharmed through storms of bullets, pierce the hulls of battleships with their bare hands, wield the air itself as a blade, harden their skin like iron, and move at superhuman speeds.

-- he did.

I will admit in my rush to edit I neglected to mention any effects that the headbutt might have had on Lobo himself beyond the impact he took, but to ignore the blow entirely would've been to a) not include any mention if it or b) to actually state that it had zero effect, that it didn't even move his head back.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Gonad "makes a living killing things with headbutts". I accepted that fact and proposed that Lobo's own physical training allows him to fight back. You, on the other hand, are not only ignoring, but outright rejecting, the possibility that the physical training that any other character Gonad faces could possibly allow them to compare to him on a purely physical level.

'The Beardforce knows.' Are you serious? Now you're just phrasing shit in a way that sounds unfair to you. It's an equalization power that lets Gonad hurt morons like you who don't know how to take proper hits...

It's not an equalization power. You aren't leveling the playing field, you aren't taking advantage of someone who doesn't know how to defend themselves, and you are absolutely full of shit to claim that was what you wanted. If that were the case Gonad would exist solely to participate exclusively a low-level, no-powers combat where there ARE no powers to get in the way of his headbutts, no superhuman powers to equalize. What you want is to impose your will on your opponents who have in good faith undertaken defensive methods which would in fact serve them in a great many situations against most any character except yours, all because you want to pretend to be a one trick pony.

If the entire point of your character is to pull non-physical fighters out of their wheelhouse to beat them you never had any intention of engaging them in the first place.

And if it IS an equalization power? I'm still not taking the knockout because of your very decisive wording:

Just think of the Beardforce as a scouter that can't be fooled. It doesn't peek into your little character sheet as if it had those little bouncy googly eyes. It measures how much latent power a character has and bolsters Gonad up to that level so that a bout can end decisively and with as little beating around the bush as possible.

You equalize my power. Fine. You counter my energy powers, fine, the hardening technique I described is based wholly physical (go hit up Iron Shirt on the google to get an idea) so even if you get through the helmet, I'm not defenseless. You want a decisive end with 'as little beating around the bush as possible', but in your own words, that still ain't necessarily instant.

I'll walk back my counterattack, but I'm still not taking that knockout.

And quit asking for a ruling on your post. I may have implicitly agreed to a match with your character sheet, but you explicitly agreed to fight me without a judge.

[Doc Doctor]

@RiDaku@Drifting Pollen@MelonHead

Eh, yeah. It's best if only Negatomsk and I argue it out, though that doesn't mean a judge isn't needed so that we don't argue forever. I do believe I see things from your point of view now, Melon.

[MelonHead]

Eh, yeah. It's best if only Negatomsk and I argue it out, though that doesn't mean a judge isn't needed so that we don't argue forever. I do believe I see things from your point of view now, Melon.

@Doc Doctor

[Doc Doctor]

Except the Beardforce is equivalent to Brock Lesnar walking through literally anything I have available in the house, including force fields, shotguns, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, an intangibility suit, and the ability to become a living math equation -- while powering through any and all of that with said frying pan alone -- to headbutt me.

No sane person would expect Mr. Lesnar to make it through a hellish obstacle course such as that with such a simple tool, because it wouldn't work, nor could they be blamed for their surprise when Lesnar powers through everything they threw at him with with a pan, because it's just not done.

So yes in your example, I was quite the moron, but the Beardforce states that nothing can withstand it, not even the fact that I, say, was also Brock Lesnar, headbutting myself.

@Negatomsk

Don't flatter yourself. Hellish is a word reserved for something that was difficult. You don't spray and pray AOE attacks and expect it to work against someone that actually knows what their doing. You want to have your cake and eat it too, huh? I didn't power through your attacks, I outmanouvered you. You just don't want to admit it.

And as for access to all of your arena history? I don't read previous fights if I can avoid it. This isn't MMA -- I am not the one fighting -- so while me brushing up on your past matches to try to formulate a plan of action might be considered a viable strategy, in my opinion it's only an attempt to fill my own head with preconceptions about your character that my character honestly has no right to know beforehand, because they've never met.

Even if I were to fight you again, I'd feel uncomfortable using anyone but Lobo, because through my own head that character would enter the ring filled with the knowledge of how Lobo's match went, intentionally or unintentionally, and I would not want to chance that influencing my writing. Lobo, win or lose, has earned that knowledge, so anything I write from a second encounter is fair game.

Now truth be told I have seen one of your fights before, but that was only because you actively fought someone else in another thread I'd joined, and you lost that fight -- intentionally or not -- because your opponent refused to be bullied by the same shit you're using here, namely trying to ignore everything they did in their power to impede you, as you tried to tell them, time and time again, how effective their own attacks were against you, despite their every attempt to explain otherwise. Yeah, and eventually you took the loss and left, but not until you'd all but killed the thread with your sidetracking bullshit, and believe me if I'd remembered that you were the one behind that shit, I'd never have slogged into the mud here with you.

@Negatomsk

You're STILL unable to be specific, because you know I have your trapped in your own fibs. I'll ask you one more time punk. To which two players did I lose? Answer the question and quit acting like a victim. You did this to yourself. My point is that you knew the Beardforce's power before the fight, but all you can do is dance around the proof as hard as you can, hoping nobody will notice how you're trying to cheat. Like I said earlier, cut it out and talk straight, unless you have something to hide.

I will admit in my rush to edit I neglected to mention any effects that the headbutt might have had on Lobo himself beyond the impact he took, but to ignore the blow entirely would've been to a) not include any mention if it or b) to actually state that it had zero effect, that it didn't even move his head back.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Gonad "makes a living killing things with headbutts". I accepted that fact and proposed that Lobo's own physical training allows him to fight back. You, on the other hand, are not only ignoring, but outright rejecting, the possibility that the physical training that any other character Gonad faces could possibly allow them to compare to him on a purely physical level.

@Negatomsk

I've never seen someone this willfully ignorant before. Just reading those lies gives me cancer. You complete trashy buffoon, you literally /did the exact same thing Lobo would have done if he hadn't been hit/.

So yes, you totally ignored the attack. What goes on in that dumpy little skull of yours? Does it make sense for Lobo, who wrestles using bows and psychic power, to be physically on par with a 7'2", 499 pound, demigod of muscle? Get ooouuta here. Lobo had his own specialties, but you just sucked at using them and tried to beat me at my own game with tragic results. You twisty, grimy tart you, stop hiding behind half-truths.

It's not an equalization power. You aren't leveling the playing field, you aren't taking advantage of someone who doesn't know how to defend themselves, and you are absolutely full of shit to claim that was what you wanted. If that were the case Gonad would exist solely to participate exclusively a low-level, no-powers combat where there ARE no powers to get in the way of his headbutts, no superhuman powers to equalize. What you want is to impose your will on your opponents who have in good faith undertaken defensive methods which would in fact serve them in a great many situations against most any character except yours, all because you want to pretend to be a one trick pony.

If the entire point of your character is to pull non-physical fighters out of their wheelhouse to beat them you never had any intention of engaging them in the first place.

And if it IS an equalization power? I'm still not taking the knockout because of your very decisive wording:

You equalize my power. Fine. You counter my energy powers, fine, the hardening technique I described is based wholly physical (go hit up Iron Shirt on the google to get an idea) so even if you get through the helmet, I'm not defenseless. You want a decisive end with 'as little beating around the bush as possible', but in your own words, that still ain't necessarily instant.

I'll walk back my counterattack, but I'm still not taking that knockout.

And quit asking for a ruling on your post. I may have implicitly agreed to a match with your character sheet, but you explicitly agreed to fight me without a judge.

@Negatomsk

Go back and read my last post again, since it's obvious you completely ignored what I told you about the equalisation. Lobo had weapons, those weapons could have easily killed Gonad. You didn't know how to use those weapons properly, so you lost. You say his mask is like an iron skull? Still a knockout by way of the physics I described, the ones Vordak properly identified.

That hit is nothing less than a knockout, and no, I never agreed to a match without a judge.

Here again are the only facts that matter.

1. You knew the Beardforce would break through supernatural kinetic defences beforehand, and now you're lying to my face and refusing to look at proof.

2. You agreed to the fight anyway, and only now are whining about how the Beardforce works. Too late, too bad.

[Doc Doctor]

For the record, here's a summarized version of my argument, in its peak form.

Again, ignoring all the blatant fibs, here's what matters.

@Negatomsk

It seems the core of your argument is that Lobo's costume can absorb and redistribute force. If that's the case, I do believe I'm justified in calling a checkmate, with all due respect.

Keep in mind that the only description of Lobo's costume existing in regards to physical damage is a "heavy resistance", nothing about the mechanics of that resistance. Now, the heavy shit.

Remember before our fight, you brought up my match with Sky? I told you in no uncertain terms that...

Sky had kinetic dampening, absorbtion, and dissipation that was an explicit ability of his. I flat out told you that the Beardforce should have broken his bones anyways, so you can't claim that Lobo could have endured the headbutt. Like I said, I don't enjoy being 'that guy', but in a ranked match I'm plenty more strict.

In every way, shape, and form, I have made it clear that Gonad isn't supposed to be fought as if he were a traditional martial artist. He's a physical monster, whose blows I have genuinely likened to swords and maces being used on a normal human in his profile.
Lobo took the hit, and that hit is absolutely a knockout blow.

@Doc Doctor

Now, keeping in mind the above, check this out.

I mentioned that two of our members have beaten you, I never mentioned which two. You assumed I meant Sky, you assumed I'd read his fight, so don't go putting words in my mouth or knowledge in my head.

@Negatomsk

So you didn't mean Sky? Then by all means enlighten me. I'm genuinely curious. During my year and a half on this site, I've only ever lost twice, both times intentional. Sky was one of them, so prove me wrong. I dare you. I double dog dare you. Either way I mentioned Sky in the post immediately after the one where I stated that the Beardforce could break bones through such defenses.

@Doc Doctor

I went easy on your friend, and accomodated him to an incredible extent. He'd have lost in a single action if I had been more insistent on the function of Gonad's beardforce. Broken knuckles from the blocked punch, a broken wrist from the awkward way he tried to block the bear slap.

@Doc Doctor

Pretty big talk considering two members of the alliance have already beaten you, with one having beaten Gonad himself, but keep talking.

@Negatomsk

Now truth be told I have seen one of your fights before, but that was only because you actively fought someone else in another thread I'd joined-

@Negatomsk

So, ladies and gentlemen, as you can see, our little friend Negatomsk isn't just making excuses, he's outright lying, and very badly I might add. That other thread? The character used was the Magna Pater, not Gonad, as can be seen in the link below. Looks like Negatomsk's friends are every bit as slimy as he is, but keep in mind I never lost this fight. It was undecided because the thread ended due to the cancer.

https://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/93584-dark-god-darko-welcomes-challangers/ooc?page=3

So, yes. @Negatomsk, I've been keeping track of your chain of lies.

[Negatomsk]

Don't flatter yourself. Hellish is a word reserved for something that was difficult. You don't spray and pray AOE attacks and expect it to work against someone that actually knows what their doing.

Wasn't flattering myself, was mocking what the Beardforce was capable of. I thought that was rather obvious what with me referencing its abilities to surpass intangible and conceptual barriers but I realize that went over your head. I'll be sure to dumb it down further next time. Fewer big words.

If you're talking about my first two attacks, congratulations, you avoided two AOE attacks, one of which was directly specified to be nowhere near you! You get a gold star.

You're STILL unable to be specific, because you know I have your trapped in your own fibs. I'll ask you one more time punk. To which two players did I lose?

That would be Enki, though I suppose Nergal would call that more of a draw, and Starfall, who sent Pater packing in a far more decisive manner, but not before you choked the life out of the Darko the Dark God thread with the delay.

If Gonad has never fallen, then I was given bad information.

There's the rest of your BS, name calling, and general douchebaggery, and then there's this gem:

That hit is nothing less than a knockout, and no, I never agreed to a match without a judge.

Is that so? Because if you weren't agreeing to the only condition I had before starting this contest, the place to lodge that complaint would've been right here:


You chose not to do so. So either:

1. You willfully ignored my one condition for this fight, led me into combat with the assumption it had been honored, and now you're lying to my face and refusing to look at proof.

2. You agreed to the fight anyway, and only now are whining about it because I won't bow down to your bullshit like the rest of the sheep around here. Too late, too bad.

[Vordak]

1. You're both being real ugly right now and nobody cares who started first.

2. Calling an unspecified group of people sheep is probably going to piss off some unspecified people in turn - cause and effect, y'know. Don't go insulting other people over your own damn business, Negatomsk, unless you actually want them to talk back.

[Geraven]

With all the forum people that have tossed their two cents in so far...I'd say he's spot on in the "sheep" comment.

[Rilla]

Out of curiosity.

How does Beardforce work exactlt? Is it a powerup at the beginning or does he need to see exactly what they are capable of?

[Negatomsk]

@Vordak

I call 'em like I see 'em, and for the facts that no one's ever called him on his bullshit before, and my playing polite hasn't stopped anyone from offering their opinion anyway, I see little point in continuing to be polite.

[Vordak]

If both of you you find that there's no more point in being polite; furthermore, you find that it's appropriate to insult the rest of the local community; and to make it even worse, you're adamant in what you said and aren't going to go back on your words - then calmly, quietly leaving would be the best thing you can do.

That's all i have to say, and i'll refrain from any further comments.

[Negatomsk]

@Rilla

Well, apparently it's a powerup that allows Gonad to instantly become as powerful as you are, without fail, or any information. It allows him to instantly match your character's full power, no observation required.

It also allows him to fly, ignore any supernatural defenses you might try against it, match your speed, mass, and durability, while also making every physical strike he makes completely unsurvivable.

So while it's sold as an equalization tool it exists solely to stack the odds in Gonad's favor no matter who he's facing.

Last part was me being facetious.

[Liaison]

With all the forum people that have tossed their two cents in so far...I'd say he's spot on in the "sheep" comment.

@Geraven

You do this far too often and I'm going to have to call you out on this. So quick to loop everyone in a box or category. Shame shame.

[Geraven]

<Snipped quote by Geraven>

You do this far too often and I'm going to have to call you out on this. So quick to loop everyone in a box or category. Shame shame.

@Liaison

And you have an uncanny knack for being douchewaffle. So I guess we are even.

[Liaison]

<Snipped quote by Liaison>

And you have an uncanny knack for being douchewaffle. So I guess we are even.

@Geraven

I barely converse with you so the chances are I dont fit whatever that means. I also am known for playing fair and being generally a reasonable person to work with. I just constantly watch you place judgment on others from the sideline. Dont point animosity towards me. I'm just saying what others should have said by now. Dont stereotype an entire community just because you feel away about one or two members. I've seen you do that to multiple communities. Just pump the breaks a bit and dont think to hard.

[Alucroas]

You all need to shut your fucking mouths and stay the fuck out of this thread.

[mickilennial]

I’m just reading this trainwreck thread, but I’d like to point out it is Arena policy that people can comment as they see fit (sans site rules, which are obviously still followed here). Screeching “shut the fuck up! get out!” is not only going to exasperate the situation further but also is not in line with arena policy or ethos so it will not yield any productive results. Rilla can and has confirmed this, by the way, but we'll see what he has to say in this case.

Anyhow, that's my only post here in this thread. Good luck trying to defeat Doc Doctor and his toon world aesthetics.

[Rilla]

Everyone head out. Dont lemme play the mod card. I dont like too.

[Doc Doctor]

@Rilla

The Beardforces activates the moment Gonad percieves an enemy, and no, Negatomsk is bending the truth in his description because he's severely wishing he hadn't taken that headbutt dead on. Here's the Beardforce's relevant description straight from the article-

Gonad can harness the raw energies of manliness itself, a power known as the Beardforce which only those known as the Beardlords may use. It allows him to scale in physical might that his capabilities may be matched evenly in comparison to those of any foe more powerful than him...
---
Gonad's power ups are nearly all physical in nature, and as such if an opponent relies heavily upon auxillary abilities, Gonad will be able to easily outmatch them in strength and speed. Think of an armored man with a machine gun facing a naked man wielding only his fists. A good comparison to the Beardforce's application is to think of how physically capable the fistfighter would need to be to stand a perfectly fair chance of beating the armored gunman. Obviously this means that in close range, an enemy who uses powers and technology in addition to martial arts would be at a severe disadvantage in the martial arts category next to Gonad.

Gonad is a one trick pony, a purist. What he lacks in long ranged versatility and multiple complex abilities, he more than makes up for by having all of his strengths accumulated into nothing less than the ultimate form of unarmed martial arts.
---
Gonad's unarmed strikes are of the highest caliber, and taking into consideration the formidable equalization of the Beardforce, this means no foe in this realm or in any other can easily withstand even one direct hit to a vital point, much like how no human mortal may fairly survive a sword through the torso or a mace to the skull, as Gonad's limbs are surely lethal weapons. The Beardforce is based upon Gonad's perception of an opponent along with the opponent's full latent power, and as such the Beardforce cannot be fooled or bypassed, making it effective against abstract concepts or inanimate objects for so long as Gonad thinks of the thing as a foe or said thing presents a threat. The opposite stands true, however, as Gonad himself wears little armor and will always be equally susceptible to the attacks of any superhuman enemy he faces, unless the enemy is launching a sneak attack (such as the shot of a sniper or a a suicide bomb, not counting tricks used mid-combat. In other words, Gonad cannot be killed unless he registers the presence of an enemy), in which case the Beardforce will alert Gonad in advance. Whether it be a normal man with a pickaxe or Superman with a pickaxe, if either buried the point of the weapon in Gonad's skull he would die just the same. If Gonad is facing a group of empowered enemies, his might will be equalized with that of the strongest.

Direct references are made between Gonad's attacks and the damage inflicted by medieval weaponry on a human body. He's a form of glass cannon that relies on manhandling opponents in CQC. His strikes are not mere kicks and punches, but murderous blows that break bones and rupture organs. He doesn't negate supernatural defenses, he powers through them with his glass cannon-esque equalisation power. The Beardforce is like a power level scouter from DBZ, it DOES NOT give Gonad meta information, as Negatomsk keeps suggesting.

[Negatomsk]

He doesn't negate supernatural defenses, he powers through them with his glass cannon-esque equalisation power.

I have multiple characters with scaling powers... that's not what equalization is. When my characters match the force of an opponent's energy, or strength, they deadlock.

If two cars of the exact same mass at the exact same speed collide, they're both stopped dead in the collision.

If the Beardforce is what allows your physical strength to match that power, none of your blows would ever get through. Only if it stacks doubly on top of that strength would it ever work.

If the Beardforce 'matched' the force or a ghost you were punching, it would produce exactly nothing. No force at all. Same thing for punching an abstract concept. There is no "equivalent" to something that is intangible or abstract. The equivalent of intangible is intangible. The equivalent of abstract is abstract. Your equalization power would have to negate, literally turn it into the opposite of what it is for you to hit whatever it is, or else Gonad's fist doesn't touch anything. That or else it instantly copies whatever Gonad is facing to make him intangible, or abstract, which it again, does without observation.