[OOC] Battle of the Maw

[Nariata]

@6slyboy6 I was worried that Sir Spud was not coming.

EDIT: CS is finished

[Conscripts]

Yeah, but whether to go aggressive or defensive or in between should be decided quickly, otherwise there would be unnecessary arguement between the two sides. We should plan that in the OOC as soon as we know the exact composition before posting. I think devising and comparing strategy in the IC can be fun, but we should have a spearhead of what to do first.

[Nariata]

@Conscripts

Well if it were me, I would start off by having your ranged cavalry engage the enemy in a Cantabrian circle fashion.
Then use the 300 Darkforest Ranger's missile support when they get close enough, firing their bows in such a manner that the arrows start to fall from pretty much right above the enemy. As they raise their shields, if they don't do a testudo, have the whole crossbowman force fire their volley. After a few little bits of this launch an infantry assault on them while at the same time having the cavalry as a whole pierce through one of the flanks, envelop around the enemy, and crush their backlines/missile troops.

[Conscripts]

For me, basically, I would use archers and horse archers to harass the enemy, luring them into close in on the Allies to prevent arrows from attacking (since if they attack, friendly fire would surely occur) so that they expose their own center. My heavy and super cavalry will then break their attack on his flank and charge straight at their exposed center, routing them, rendering their entire army leaderless. Well, you can't kill Alaric but you can rout him and force him to retreat or maybe kill his sub-commanders, right?

[Bright_Ops]

I would wait until we have an idea of what we're up against before making a plan to counter it.

[Nariata]

@Conscripts

I think Alaric will lead from afar. We can't kill him yet, nor ever as that would give us total victory, but I envision this like a last stand of the Spartans in that gory movie. Each day we face new enemies with their own commanders.

[Conscripts]

Depends, but the smashing of their center and the death or retreat of their sub-commanders will probably demoralize the attacking units. Still, I have a bunch of ideas to use when devising strategies

[Nariata]

What do you guys think of a feigned retreat?

[6slyboy6]

@6slyboy6 I was worried that Sir Spud was not coming.

EDIT: CS is finished

@Nariata

Do not worry! Sir Spud the Fourth will be accompanying you. (you just gave me an excellent idea on how to expand on my already existing character idea)

[Conscripts]

Military leadership is not a destination, but a journey. There will be hundreds of opponents and strategies to face. So unless the idea sounded too ridiculous for the situation, I think any idea would be fine

[babbysama]

I think it would be more prudent, at least on the first day, to adopt a more defensive posture. Have outriders and scouts harry the enemy and draw them in, where we can bang them up against our defenses and clamp down with some spirited cavalry maneuvers. Of course, assuming that Alaric is as able a tactician as we've heard, it's doubtful that this'd have any real effect; rather, we both need to send out feelers and see what the other is capable of. He'll be expecting a strong defense and deep entrenchment, which will make any aggressive moves we take all the more surprising. However, at least until we know the full extent of what we're up against, I don't think that sallying forth would be the wisest thing to do. It's not like on the first day much is going to get done anyway.

[Nariata]

@babbysama

Fair points across the board. Should we adopt the defensive posture and own it on the first day? Go big with a trench line dug in front of our defensive line, cavalry shrouded in cover ready to launch the counter assault, maybe find a way for some of the archers to climb the walls of the canyon to bring fire down from above?

[babbysama]

@babbysama

Fair points across the board. Should we adopt the defensive posture and own it on the first day? Go big with a trench line dug in front of our defensive line, cavalry shrouded in cover ready to launch the counter assault, maybe find a way for some of the archers to climb the walls of the canyon to bring fire down from above?

@Nariata

That's the kind of thing I was imagining. Traps, caltrops, maybe some magical defenses scattered about the field; barrels of pitch and burning oil positioned on the heights to rain down on enemies; trenches, etc. etc. Of course to do that is also to tie our hands, because we'd be unable to maneuver; it'd be a siege, not a battle, and maybe that might be the better idea if we're going up against an unbeatable army. Although we don't have a chance at all to beat Alaric, I doubt that IC many of the commanders will fancy the idea of just sitting idly by. So ultimately I think we'll have to hit a sweet spot between offense and defense, obviously with a greater emphasis on defense. Like, a strategy that's highly defensive but also gives us wiggle room to maneuver, make raids, sally forth, etc. I think that's the only way we're going to be successful (to the extent that we can be successful).

[Nariata]

@babbysama

Part of our goal in defense should be creating a rallying cry for the western nations after the siege is done, something that the armies and the common folk left behind could rally behind. A second part should be to weaken the morale of the enemies forces. Traps, caltrops, and that brilliant idea of burning barrels (pots is a little better) if this was a thinner canyon, would be amazing. But we need to send a message.

[Nariata]

Sorry for double post, but seeing the new GOT episode makes me want the north of the western empires to band together for the sake of the north :P

[6slyboy6]

@babbysama

Part of our goal in defense should be creating a rallying cry for the western nations after the siege is done, something that the armies and the common folk left behind could rally behind. A second part should be to weaken the morale of the enemies forces. Traps, caltrops, and that brilliant idea of burning barrels (pots is a little better) if this was a thinner canyon, would be amazing. But we need to send a message.

@Nariata

Guys, fear not. The best engineers of Saqquar are here to help you out.

I will be employing a variety of mechanical wonders against the enemy, like the beforementioned traps and caltrops, to some much nastier surprises.

I will also be making some fortifications: I have a cool idea for a few mobile defenses that could prove effective against overwhelming odds. And I have a ton of ideas for catapults and trebuchets that could devastate enemy forces.

You'll see what I mean once I post my CS here in a few hours

[babbysama]

@6slyboy6 Sounds good. We should have the pass itself locked up tight and bristling with defenses, traps, etc. But, as I also mentioned before, we should have some room to maneuver as well. I think ultimately, considering the fact that we won't be able to best Alaric, it'll come down to a protracted siege of the pass. But if we can hold him off for a few days before it comes to that in order to bolster our defenses and entrench our position, more's the better.

What does everyone else think of this?

[seriousarmour]

That would be a good idea. It would be best to plan this as a defensive battle and plan to use our shock cavalry sparingly, largely using them to outmaneuver massed infantry. Particularly while engaged with our own infantry, they are too precious a commodity to waste sallying forth early (Unless we can cause a rout). In the early days we should largely focus on digging in and preparing for a siege. Our own archers and siege equipment will be of no use to us if they are countered in larger numbers by the offensive army. We should be building earthen works and creating shields to prolong the lives of our soldiers. Especially if we expose our archers by placing them high, we will want them to have some kind of shielding preferably something semi portable.

Pitch particularly fired from a catapult or the like would be a brilliant idea in the confined spaces of the canyon and is fantastic way to break morale of the offensive army. Especially when combined with caltrops to limit speed and maneuverability.

If we can use some of Pizarks Hunters and trappers to find some goat paths leading through the mountains we will need to divert a small amount of men to protect them but it may also open up the ability to sabotage supply lines.

But really there can be no concrete plan or clear way to deploy our forces until we know the disposition of the enemy.

It is also important to remember we are not trying to kill as many as possible (Although more is better). We are trying to delay them.

[6slyboy6]

@babbysama I am all down for digging trenches, making traps and building defenses. If you need some tinkering done or something built, you can come to my guys.

I was thinking of creating these little catwalks in the side of the pass, perhaps by digging them out, or reinforcing existing ledges. Could be a nice place to snipe them from.

My other main idea is something like siege towers used as mobile defensive emplacements for archers. Multiple levels with windows that you could shoot from. Plus maybe even heated oil to pour at the people below.

[babbysama]

That would be a good idea. It would be best to plan this as a defensive battle and plan to use our shock cavalry sparingly, largely using them to outmaneuver massed infantry. Particularly while engaged with our own infantry, they are too precious a commodity to waste sallying forth early (Unless we can cause a rout). In the early days we should largely focus on digging in and preparing for a siege. Our own archers and siege equipment will be of no use to us if they are countered in larger numbers by the offensive army. We should be building earthen works and creating shields to prolong the lives of our soldiers. Especially if we expose our archers by placing them high, we will want them to have some kind of shielding preferably something semi portable.

Pitch particularly fired from a catapult or the like would be a brilliant idea in the confined spaces of the canyon and is fantastic way to break morale of the offensive army. Especially when combined with caltrops to limit speed and maneuverability.

If we can use some of Pizarks Hunters and trappers to find some goat paths leading through the mountains we will need to divert a small amount of men to protect them but it may also open up the ability to sabotage supply lines.

But really there can be no concrete plan or clear way to deploy our forces until we know the disposition of the enemy.

It is also important to remember we are not trying to kill as many as possible (Although more is better). We are trying to delay them.

@seriousarmour

All great points, especially about morale and our ultimate purpose here. We should try and figure out some creative ways in which we can wear down the enemy's morale, maybe something like nighttime raids to keep their watchmen on edge, psychological tactics like chucking the decaying bodies of their dead back at them, creepy magic voodoo shit, etc. I don't think Alaric will necessarily underestimate us (being the tactician that he is, he'll recognize that we have a strong position), but he'll know that he obviously has the upper hand. So it's a question of how much we're willing to sacrifice, how deep we're willing to go, to prove our mettle and see who blinks first.

As you said, I think that on the first day we should be as defensive as possible, sounding out the enemy, digging ourselves in, and not wasting our precious few troops on any aggressive maneuvers.

@babbysama I am all down for digging trenches, making traps and building defenses. If you need some tinkering done or something built, you can come to my guys.

I was thinking of creating these little catwalks in the side of the pass, perhaps by digging them out, or reinforcing existing ledges. Could be a nice place to snipe them from.

My other main idea is something like siege towers used as mobile defensive emplacements for archers. Multiple levels with windows that you could shoot from. Plus maybe even heated oil to pour at the people below.

@6slyboy6

All good ideas, though I wonder how the siege towers will work once we've entered the final phase and are effectively under siege by the enemy's forces. It also might unduly expose our missile troops, and unless they're properly defended, they could be breached easily by infantry. I'm still down for the idea but we'd have to divert resources to their defense at the expense of other fronts. Just something to keep in mind while drawing up our plans. But catwalks on the side of the pass, sounds dope.