The Book Club

[Kratesis]

@POOHEAD189 Somewhat ironically I must recommend A War Like No Other by Victor Davis Hanson. The Western Way of War by the same author makes an excellent companion.

[POOHEAD189]

Apparently there is some contention over this man's work.

[NuttsnBolts]

On holidays at the moment and got a few things to sort out with my RC car, but next week should be fairly clear so I'm hoping I can finish reading The Neuromancer. After that I have my Matthew Reilly book too that I gotta read.

[xodus]

So I have just started Memory sorrow and thorn, namely the first book: The Dragonbone Chair. So far it is on the slow side though I don't mind that. Tad Williams is more concerned with laying out a foundation, building the world, having the reader get accustomed to the characters. This is a harbinger of great things to come, at least in my reading experience.

My only qualms is that the main character is a real dunce. Hopefully the character progression will start soon and things will pick up.

[Elkhar]

I'm currently reading The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami and I'm enjoying everything about it. I love the writer's style, I love his characters, I love how 'weird' the story is so far. I've never read anything by him before and I'm definitely curious to read his other novels.

[AlteredTundra]

Anyone here read Artemis by Andy Weir? I'm trying to decide if I should add it to my Christmas list or not.

[SgtEasy]

Bit of an outsider here but I'd strongly reccomend the audiobook Give Me Tomorrow by Patrick k. O'donell. The amount of characters (who are real people) might be a little confusing at first but the audiobook is amazing. It's a good insight into the Korean War and one of the American companies which fought in it. The grittiness of the battle scenes are great and I heartily recommend this retelling ^_^

I couldn't tell you how much I've listened to the audiobook

[POOHEAD189]

I'm wondering if anyone has read any work by John Keegan. I have here the "Book of War" by him that is basically a bunch of primary sources of various experiences of warfare starting from the Peloponnesian War all the way up until the modern period, but I am curious if anyone can tell me if his own opinions/research is noteworthy or not.

[KawaiiKyouko]

The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo (and by association..the other ones that follow it)

If you love a good mystery/suspense book, this book (and series) is one of my favorites. I recently reread the book because I kind of forgot how it played out and I was hooked yet again. I believe the author recently released another one that I haven't read yet (but plan on it). It is a lot of fun reading these.

@FantasyChic

The author to those books, Stieg Larsson, died in 2004. But I agree, they are really good books.

As for my own recommendation, I'll start with Joe Abercrombie's dark fantasy bookseries The First Law and the first book, The Blade Itself, which was released in 2006. I recommend it to anyone that enjoys interplay between characters, a hint of lethality and similar. It holds certain similarity to Game of Thrones in that sense, just not AS lethal (thank god, my issue with that series was me stopping to give a damn about the characters whatsoever). The thing I feel Abercrombie's series did the best is forming a strong cast of characters where none are truy good nor bad. He lingers a lot in the greyzone, and there's no character I disliked or found lacking. And while I mention the cast, it is rather vast. He has no specific main character, instead placing himself in the perspective of a number different characters. I'll mention them a little further down, with a snippet of their personalities and ambitions.

Set in a world 800 years after a disastrous war between the brothers Juvens and the Master Maker Kaledios, the sons of Euz, in the kingdom referred to as the Union, the wild North and the southern Empire of Gurkhal. There's also the Eastern Old Empire, a nation in constant civil war. Most of the story is from the perspective of the Union, most happening in the inner circle of the capitol Adua, simpy referred to as the Agriont. It is more or less the land of the nobles as well as wealthy merchants and other outstanding individuals.

The Union is a nation about to face two disastrous wars, one in the North and one in the South. The king is old and demented, the crown prince is... an idiot and the second in line is by all accounts the superior option as a new king. Meanwhile in the North, the man known as Bethod has gathered the various clans under one banner like Skarling did in the older days. His ambition is to turn the untamed lands into a tamed kingdom much like what the other lands have been able to in order to defeat the flood of Flatheads (goblin-like creatures) from the mountains. And in the Empire of Gurkhul, the marching armies subdue more and more in an attempt to unite the entire Southern continent under one banner.

"Main" Characters

Logen Ninefingers (also known as the Bloody Nine)
An experienced and feared warrior, a Named Man as they call it, banished from the North at the hand of Bethod. Once Bethod's champion and second man, after one day deciding to rebel he was exiled. With his group of mighty Named Men, they travelled south to meet up with the Union to defeat Bethod. As a man, Logen is heavily held back by his own regret of the cruelties he's done in his past. A down to earth type of person, he has proven time and time again he's a natural leader. If only he wasn't the Bloody Nine as well...

Jezal dan Luthar
A noble of the Union in both character and status, his only concerns seems to be his own and what woman he has in his eyes. Pushed by his father to fight in the noble Contest, a fencing contest of high regard, as well as taking a role in the King's Own, he spends most of his days training with Lord Marshal Varuz and drinking and playing cards with his comrade officers.

Sand dan Glokta
A noble of the Union, and a cripple as well, that works in the Inquisition. His job is to remove treachery from the nation's inner circle, and with his companions Practical Frost and Practical Severard will they torture their way through any they find. As a person, he seems to hate everything and most of all himself. A shadow of his former days as a brave Colonel in the King's Own, he holds no compassion, mercy or friends. No wonder, when everyone is scared of him. West's old friend.

The Dogman
Perhaps the man most loyal in the entire North, he is Logen's best friend. Neither the strongest nor the bravest nor the most feared, he is often thought of as a bit of a coward (not as bad as Forley the Weakest though), yet he proves his bravery by fighting his fears. He's overall a good man that fighs for his principles, despite his massive urges to piss before any battle.

Major West
A veteran of the previous war with Gurkhal, he seems to be a decent man allround. He has some anger issues that tend to bite him in the arse, but a brilliant war mind nonetheless. A friend of Jezal, if one could call it that, and a previous winner of the Contest. He is also a commoneer that has fought his way to his role.

Ferro Maljinn
She hates Gurkhal. She hates the pinks. She hates everything. Once a member of a tribe that was slaughtered by the Gurkish armies, and the remaining sold to slavery, she was trained to be a court concubine in the service of the Emperor himself. One day she managed to find her way out of his clutches and instead started to stain the sands with Gurkish blood, something she's exceptionally skilled at. A serial killer in every sense of the word. Atleast she has a fine reason for it, being a descendant of the Demon-bloods.

[shamrocknroll]

Ok I'm going with a cult of the new pick and say Bonfire by Krysten Ritter. Especially if you like nior. If you like Jessica Jones and Daredevil, the book seems like a very well-cared for lovechild of the two without superpowers.

I also recommend Heartsick and One Kick by Chelsea Cain, they're both dark but kinda quirky in a way and a part of a series so if you don't like jumping into a series both could be a hassle. They are also both suspense but Cain's voice of quirkiness is there so it is separated from the self-righteously miserable edge most suspense novels tend to have.

Finally is a non-fiction book called Slugfest: Inside the Epic 50 year Battle between Marvel and DC. If you like the business side of fandoms fighting ala WCW vs WWE (F). This is a must read, especially since superhero movies are so popular and mainstream now.

[POOHEAD189]

I decided I was going to do a big reread of R.A. Salvatore's Legend of Drizzt series (which I still recommend to people) but before that I wanted to try something new, so I picked up 'The Name of the Wind' since about everyone else here read it.

---

I quite liked it. It's not usually the type of fantasy I'm into, but it was enjoyable. The prose was well done, and honestly reminded me of Salvatore's work somewhat. I can also tell Patrick Rothfuss knows his celtic and imitation magical lore. From what I know the whole magic system is pretty much the same as real world occult sympathy magic practices (yep, just wiki-ed it to make sure and at the bottom of the page it says this magic is prominent in the Kingkiller Chronicles).

I think my favorite part of the novel was Kvothe dealing with the teachers and him getting slack jawed whenever he bumped into Fela. Also his studies with Ben. I was very much expecting Ben to show up again later but he didn't. I also didn't expect Ambrose to be such a problem with the way he was introduced just being some shitty librarian. I thought Kvothe would take him out verbally and never talk to him again, or maybe turn him into a friend, but Ambrose is just a terrible person I guess.

Oh, one of my truly favorite characters was Auri, and I loved every interaction Kvothe had with her. Particularly the last dinner he had with her, when he asked her if she would show him the 'underthing' and she said "I thought you were a gentlemen. Imagine, asking a girl to show you her underthing." And Kvothe is just dumbfounded for a moment before he asks if she's joking and she says "yes, isn't it wonderful?" I lol'ed at that, and when he jumped off the building to prove to Elodin he wasn't crazy, and then Elodin thought him crazy for jumping off a fucking building lmao.

I'm going to address some of the things y'all said about the novel as well, and whether I do or do not disagree.

Is Kvothe a Mary Sue/Marty Stu?
Somewhat. Not to a huge degree, and it's only really in musical talent and how intelligent he is. But he's no great warrior and not even an incredible magician. Just pretty good. Plus he doesn't get all of the women. He has Fela interested in him, the wealthy blonde girl he beat in the musical competition, and probably Denna. Two/Three is not a lot for a regular dude over the course of a few months, much less a Mary Sue.

Is Kvothe lying or exaggerating in his story?
I know you guys said he was, but as someone who literally just put the book down I do not recall him admitting he would exaggerate to Chronicler. In fact, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary.

• He tells Chronicler that while he can ramble, he wants him to write down every word Kvothe says so exactly so the true story can be told.
• We know he really is an extremely intelligent person and he is not lying about his learning ability because he decodes Chronicler's secret writing language within a few minutes of Chronicler showing it to him, much to Chronicler's chagrin.
• He admits he lies and fails a lot in his story, where he honestly did not need to do that. I can't count how many times Kvothe tells he said something, adding in "I lied" at the end of it.

The only two times in the book that might be considered for evidence that he exaggerates or lies is 1) when Bast interrupts him and tells him that Denna is good looking, but she does have a crooked nose and Kvothe is like "beauty is more than the sum of our parts" or something like that, implying he might be telling a somewhat biased story on a few things. And 2) when he, Willam, and Sim are sitting at a table and he's telling them how he spent 6 hours with Denna and they ask if he kissed/slept with her, and he says no they just talked, and one of them (I forget which) doesn't believe he spent 6 hours talking, and the other believes him because Kvothe "sounds more sincere when he lies" which can imply he can lie to Chronicler and be believed easily enough.

P.S. Also when Kvothe begins meeting the Dracchus with "it was a Dragon" and waits for Chronicler's response, though since the beast being a Dracchus and not a Dragon was pretty important to how they dealt with the creature, he couldn't keep up that as a lie or exaggeration so I would think that would be more of an exception than anything.

The only real problems I had with the book was him treating Denna in such a legendary fashion. I did like how she was introduced, and she's somewhat of a prodigy like he is because she's sharp and can sing with the best of them. But her sleeping around with a lot of 'patrons' keeps him from asking her to be with him, even when it becomes clear with the Dracchus attack that she does like him. I kinda felt sympathy for Kvothe at first, because he didn't want to be just another conquest. But even after that when it was clear she wouldn't treat him that way, he still couldn't believe she would take him and it kind of reminded me of the woolheadedness of some WoT guy characters. That and, I do enjoy Denna as a character, but before they went after the Dracchus I couldn't tell her and Denni apart very well character wise, since they were both young, dangerous, rogusih, yet charming women that Kvothe described as "the woman" when he introduced them both. I was glad she (Denna) got a lot more character development later.

Anyway, I haven't rambled on a book in awhile. I'm glad I picked it up.

[Penny]

Is Kvothe a Mary Sue/Marty Stu?
Somewhat. Not to a huge degree, and it's only really in musical talent and how intelligent he is.

@POOHEAD189

His abilities NEVER allow him to solve his actual problems. For all his talents he still struggles to find any information about the enemy, learn magic ect ect.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

His abilities NEVER allow him to solve his actual problems. For all his talents he still struggles to find any information about the enemy, learn magic ect ect.

@Penny

Other than keeping him in school attendance when he gets in trouble, yep.

[Scrub Mage]

Most of the readings I've done in the past year have been for philosophy classes I've been taking, but I've managed to squeeze in a few that are for fun. Here's three books which I really like, starting with two of my absolute favorites (Philosophical Investigations, and Beneath the Underdog), and something which I think is a worthwhile read all around. It's 2 AM, so I'm not going to go too in-depth with them, but here's tiny synopses which don't do the books any justice at all anyways.

---

Philosophical Investigations

By Ludwig Wittgenstein

Language is a game, and we all have our own set of rules. That's such a poor summary of the ideas in the book, because it's pretty much the ranting of a disgruntled philosopher that grew tired of the philosophical community. The book itself is interesting if you want to learn more about how we use language, but it's a philosophy book, so it's on the drier end of the spectrum (unless you're me/have an obsession with the guy). If you want to get better at language games, this is the book. Seriously, if you're not familiar with it by name, it's been fed to you by the culture around you whether you like it or not. If you've ever thought about stuff like, "What is the definition of is?", or "Is language descriptive or prescriptive?", then you'll take a lot out of this. I could go on about this book for ages, but I know I won't do it justice.

---

Beneath the Underdog: His World as Composed by Mingus

By Charles Mingus

Without a doubt my favorite composer, Charles Mingus was a jazz musician that grew up in California during the 1920's. The work is an autobiography, but it's a wild ride. While there's probably a good chunk that's exaggerated, it still offers insight into the mind of Mingus. He talks about being a pimp, struggling as a Jazz musician, racial tensions, signing himself into an insane asylum because he wanted a place to sleep, and a lot of sex. It's honestly one of the few books that captivated me entirely, and I read it over the course of three days. It's a relatively short read, but it offers a huge amount of insight into the west-coast jazz community, if you're interested in that sort of thing. The narrative itself is wild as well, and the book is assembled in an almost haphazard way. It'll also give you a tail of great musicians to follow, if you haven't already. The book is filled with wisdom from a bygone age, sad recollections of what was, and bitter optimism for what will be. Overall, it is a poetic account of a struggle-filled life.

---

Ishmael

By Daniel Quinn

I wouldn't be surprised if you knew about this book already, it's pretty popular, but I only actually read it this last fall. I could say so much about this book, but I think this captures it pretty well:

"Teacher seeks pupil. Must have an earnest desire to save the world. Apply in person."

And if that doesn't get you...

Spoiler About the First Few Pages That Isn't Really a Spoiler But It's Still Kind of a Spoiler

The teacher is a psychic gorilla.

[0 Azzy 0]

@POOHEAD189 I kinda get the feeling that, despite some inevitable disagreements about details, we might be kinda on the same page with regards to The Name of the Wind. That is: good book, good author, would probably recommend to others buuuuuuut not about to say it belongs on a pedestal above the rest.

That being said, I have a big fat copy of The Wise Man's Fear sitting here on my desk. Go grab your own copy and we can meet back here when we've both finished to see how we feel about the continuation of the story. XD

[POOHEAD189]

@0 Azzy 0 Once I read it I'll report back here. Need to finish my (re)reading of the Crystal Shard, though^^ Haven't read that in at least 6 years.

[Kratesis]

I'm wondering if anyone has read any work by John Keegan. I have here the "Book of War" by him that is basically a bunch of primary sources of various experiences of warfare starting from the Peloponnesian War all the way up until the modern period, but I am curious if anyone can tell me if his own opinions/research is noteworthy or not.

@POOHEAD189

I completely missed this. John Keegan is a giant in his field. Virtually anything he wrote is well worth the read. I have found that even when I disagreed with his conclusions I still found his arguments extremely interesting.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

I completely missed this. John Keegan is a giant in his field. Virtually anything he wrote is well worth the read. I have found that even when I disagreed with his conclusions I still found his arguments extremely interesting.

@Kratesis

Thank you! I was hoping someone would answer.

[PaperCranes]

Wayside High School stories. I miss those. Louis Sachar was such a genius

[Penny]

So I watched Altered Carbon recently and it had so much of the things I love (Sci-fi, Noir ect) that I got on board despite the fact that I'm not usually a big fan of transhumanism. Having finished the series I read the next book in the series:

Broken Angels - By Richard Morgan

Set on a war torn world it follows the ex everything hero on a mission to try to salvage a derelict Martian warship. It's deception of Xenoarchaeolgy (and its internal politics) was particularly interesting. The action was well written and the atmosphere tense. There was some questionable sexual content that I found a little problematic but overall I found it very satisfying. The twists and turns of loyalty and betrayal which underlined the whole plot were particularly well executed and the pay off at the end was fantastic.

It is a very different version of Takeshi Kovachs than you get in the Altered Carbon show, but even as a standalone hero he works perfectly well.