[OOC] The Last Embers (Dark Steampunk/Fantasy)

[Lovejoy]

Speaking of, no pressure, but is there any intention to draw more of the team? I'm trying to draw Rodion but...MALE FACES. Men in general. Also their hair. X.x I may just move to the rest of the gals.

I like Primus.

acolyte and initiate...I always forget which one sounds like it should be above the other.

Where do standard inquisitors rank in comparison the the nonmilitant church, and the secular army? Can we come up with a rank comparison for the two armies? I imagine the Inquisition ranks are slightly higher than the similarly named secular rank, but I'd like to see how they fit in with the civilian portion of the church.

It's intriguing that Omestris was thoroughly obliterated and Lanostre was not...but I guess Lord Varya (or the priests representing him!) have more use for strong warriors than they do for clever and independently-minded people. Also I'm guessing Omestris didn't surrender, so.

I do wonder why the other countries didn't band together. At the very least, T'saraen and Omestris...or maybe they did...or figured their odds were better this way....hmmm....

I imagine unauthorized incursions into Lanostre probably happened every now and again, hindered by the fact that they needed someone with ether control for an aegis to get there. The Church only started sending officially sanctioned (but quiet) feelers out in the decade or so leading up to the war. Before that, it was all entirely covert, with deniability.

@shylarah

I definitely plan on still drawing everyone at some point! The beginning of the RP was a pretty crazy period for me so I had to put art stuff in the backburner but I'll definitely be getting back to that at some point. :p

I'm not super knowledgeable on military ranks but, I see newly ordained inquisitors being comparable to SA lieutenants. However, with this being a theocratic society, inquisitors have a bit more power and influence than SA soldiers. I think of this as being kind of an unspoken fact, and a source of tension between the clergy and the military. Many SA officers definitely aren't huge fans of the clerical branch, but their relationship with the inquisitorial branch varies by individual. In the past, some inquisitors have treated the SA as little more than cannon fodder, while others have actively worked with the SA as allies and are hailed as respected comrades and the like.

Creid would definitely be one of the ladder. He has long taught us that the SA is to be respected as a force of brave soldiers, not pawns. He's also brought in allies from the SA to teach us combat stuff, so I feel like our class would probably be more open-minded about the SA. That depends on your character's perspective though.

Also, there is a ranking hierarchy within the inquisition itself, besides the existence of a "bishop". Now, I honestly haven't put too much thought into this and have treated it as more of a casual thing, but I guess now would be a good a time to.

So, our teachers and the like are obviously of a higher rank than us, but I'm not sure how to denote that. Should there be "classes"? For example, maybe Creid's official rank is Divine Inquisitor 1st Class, while ours would be Divine Inquisitor 4th Class?

Any thoughts?

As for a civilian portion of the Church, I see everyone in the clergy who isn't an inquisitor as being part of the clerical branch. As for their hierarchy, I haven't really come up with anything besides: Acolyte --> Monk/Nun --> Priest --> Vicar --> Cardinal --> High Cardinal --> Primus

If anyone's got any ideas about this too let me know.

[CollectorOfMyst]

Creid is definitely the ladder.

@Lovejoy

So basically people climb him to get power.

He has long taught us that the SA is to be respected as a force of brave soldiers, and not pawns. He's also brought in allies from the SA to teach us combat stuff, so I feel like our class would probably be more open-minded about the SA. That depends on your character's perspective though.

Would Wyvern be the same?

Also, there is a ranking hierarchy within the inquisition itself, besides the existence of a "bishop". Now, I honestly haven't put too much thought into this and have treated it as more of a casual thing, but I guess now would be a good a time to discuss it as any.

So, our teachers and the like are obviously of a higher rank than us, but I'm not sure how to denote that. Should there be "classes"? For example, maybe Creid's official rank is Divine Inquisitor 1st Class, while ours would be Divine Inquisitor 3rd Class?

Any thoughts?

Well, since we're already separated into different Warbands, you could use generations to classify them. Like, Varya's first inquisitors were the first generation. The ones they trained were the second, and so on until today. Once you get to a certain age, you can't rise any more in rank, but you still have an immense amount of respect from others. There'd be logbooks of the Warband names alongside their generation, so names could feasibly be more than once.

There's also names, like you mentioned. A Bishop is the highest rank for them, yes? Well, you could have Master Inquisitor as your teachers, Knight Inquisitor for your generals, Grand Inquisitor for those with political power, and then just plain old Inquisitor for the newly anointed. Instead of having ascending rank, you get shunted into each box depending on what you can do - so it would really just allow rumours to spread on name alone.

As for a civilian portion of the Church, I see everyone in the clergy who isn't an inquisitor as being part of the clerical branch. As for their hierarchy, I haven't really come up with anything besides: Acolyte --> Monk/Nun --> Priest --> Vicar --> Cardinal --> High Cardinal --> Primus

If anyone's got any ideas about this too let me know.

This seems good to me - Acolytes, Monks and Nuns would be your most plentiful, then Priests, the experienced or talented becoming Vicars, and the subsequently Cardinal and High Cardinal in few and fewer numbers so only a bare number hold the power.

[shylarah]

@CollectorOfMyst haa, I was thinking about saying something similar.

It's **latter (though the way some people say it...)

@Lovejoy the ranks seem pretty good. And I imagine the inquisition has its own ranks. Creid I thknk would not be /just/ an Inquisitor, even if there are multiple ranks by that name and differentiated by class.

I figure that it's a combination of seniority, command skill, tactical/strategic skill, and fighting prowess (both physical and etheric) that determine one's rank in the Inquisition. The default rank of graduates is Inquisitor. Maybe there's a slightly lower rank that is made of the recently graduated Inquisitors, and they move to the basic rank after x time has passed or a successful mission or whatever. Within the "inquisitor" ranks, they might be further divided by fighting strength, since their warbands would generally indicate seniority. This is your private first class, private second class, etc -- though I really suggest using something other than "class", since the groups are literally made of classes of students. It seems confusing.

Command and tactics/strategy is the key skill for higher ranks beyond a simple Inquisitor. So in theory a guy that's not so good at fighting (compared to the other Inquisitors, obviously) might still achieve a decent rank if he's sufficiently clever or charismatic. Those being considered for ranking up beyond inquisitor could be officer candidates. The ranks beyond Inquisitor are collectively called officers. Officer cadets (maybe Knight Cadets?) are newly appointed, and move out of the cadet rank in a similar fashion to junior Inquisitors becoming full inquisitors.

Our teachers would be officers of some sort. I lean towards the knight rank just because. I think the very top rank would be something like "Lord/Lady High Inquisitor" or something, leaving High Inquisitor the next rank down. might be lord/lady inquisitors in there. and then Knight Inquisitor is the most basic command rank. Master Inquisitor would work too.

Forms of address would be ...not sure what to do abuot the top fellow, but High Mother/Father [name], Lord Father/Lady Mother [name], and then...also not sure what to do about knights. oh, right, Dame. Sir/Dame [name] (I guess the father/mother part gets dropped? eh).

[CollectorOfMyst]

@shylarah Are we going by IRL for the Sir/Dame part? Because actually, if a woman is knighted, she is still a sir, strangely enough.

[shylarah]

Initiates or Trainees are probably pregrad Inquisitors. Initiate if Acolyte is a training position, otherwise it should be used for the church and trainee should be used for the Inquisition.

Bishop is a skill position. perhaps a middle skill rank could be ...iunno, deacon? I like that. ^.^;;

Inquisitorial Command/Officer ranks:

-top guy. Just one.
Lord High Inquisitor? Supreme General? Commander in Chief? probably something along the lines of the latter two, since technically they have command of the secular army too, if they want it.

-second rank, only a few
High Inquisitor

other ranks:
Master Inquisitor
Knight Master Inquisitor
Knight Inquisitor\

(functions like lieutenant, lieutenant commander, and commander)

Teachers are probably taken from these three ranks. Maybe just the knights and knight masters.

[shylarah]

@CollectorOfMyst I've heard differently, since the wife of a knight is a lady. And some fantasy novels use Lady as the title of a female knight, instead of Dame (and I actually like that better, even though the wife of a lord is also a lady. But whatever)

[CollectorOfMyst]

@shylarah True - I'm talking about IRL, though. As in, Queen Elizabeth II would knight a woman and under current laws she would be a sir (or as some games put it, ser)

[shylarah]

posting again instead of editing because...hehe. ^.^;; I hate when folks edit stuff and I don't know so I don't read the new stuff.

Initiates or Trainees are probably pregrad Inquisitors. Initiate if Acolyte is a training position, otherwise it should be used for the church and trainee should be used for the Inquisition.

Bishop is a skill position. perhaps a middle skill rank could be ...iunno, deacon? I like that. ^.^;;

Inquisitorial Command/Officer ranks:

-top guy. Just one.
Lord High Inquisitor? Supreme General? Commander in Chief? probably something along the lines of the latter two, since technically they have command of the secular army too, if they want it.

-second rank, only a few
High Inquisitor

might be a couple other ranks in here, depends on what Love wants.

lowest officer ranks:
Master Inquisitor
Knight Master Inquisitor
Knight Inquisitor

(functions like lieutenant, lieutenant commander, and commander)

Teachers are probably taken from these three ranks. Maybe just the knights and knight masters. Might be exceptions.

Knight cadets are under all these.
Then the Knight candidates -- the ones being watched for promotion. Might eliminate one of these two, but it's up to Love.

Then the INquisitors. Most of them are...just plain Inquisitors. It looks like a warband might be assigned a member of one of the command ranks to go with them on missions, but they don't necessarily need one.

There are divisions among the inquisitors, mostly by fighting skill.
Primary Grade is the best
Secondary Grade is ...well, second
Tertiary Grade is the lowest.

Junior (untried) Inquisitors, like our characters, are the lowest graduated rank. They may fall into primary-tertiary grades, but they are somewhat lower than full inquisitors.

[shylarah]

A friend suggests that maybe we should consider who's in charge of the warband. Since...y'know. In a fight there's not time to discuss it. and there'd need to be a second, at the least.

I can see why, but I also figure we've trained long enough that we work as a group more or less automatically. So...I guess I could go either way on this? Or at least I'm undecided.

[The Angry Goat]

@CollectorOfMyst haa, I was thinking about saying something similar.

It's **latter (though the way some people say it...)

@Lovejoy the ranks seem pretty good. And I imagine the inquisition has its

@shylarah

From a linguistic point of view ladder and latter are said exactly the same - the dd and the tt are actually both a trilled “r”

[shylarah]

@The Angry Goat They are? Ooh, neat~ Yeah, they often sound similar, even identical, depending on the word and the person. Choir means I pay a lot more attention to Ts, at least some of the time. ^.^;;

[Draken]

Aside from administrative/leaderships positions (for which I like High Inquisitor, Grand Inquisitor, and Prime Inquisitor (to somewhat reflect "Primus")), do the Inquisitors need to be separated so finely? There are few of us, so surely it could not be too difficult to distinguish us by the individual. When easy sorting is needed, they can simply refer to our warbands. For that matter, what if it's not the inquisitors who and separated into Xth-Grade, but the warbands since we often remain in those groups for years?

[shylarah]

@Draken you've a good point. I was thinking of an army sized group. And I do like Grand Inquisitor.

[Scout]

So, there's a lot of REALLY good ideas going around. I think, on ranking, I'll put in a little bit myself just to see what I can come up with.

Freshly ordained, short term title: Protoinquisitor (proto- is often used in Catholicism's hierarchy of clergy to denote something like "Vice" or "Apprentice," preluding a title without a prefix, like protodeacon or protopriest)

Shortly after learning hands-on how to do their jobs, they receive the title of "Inquisitor" (like a Marine Lance Corporal rising to Corporal)

From Inquisitor, they become (and this is stolen from the others, I like it) Inquisition Knight/Knight Inquisitor.

After that, they rise to Hierinquisitor (hier-/hiero- is a prefix meaning divine or holy, again, used in Catholic clergy titles)

From Hierinquisitor, they rise to Arch-Inquisitor, then finally to Elder or Master Inquisitor. And if we add a rank that is the "single highest ranking inquisitor in the church," it could be Grandmaster [with or without "Inquisitor" after it]

So, in summation, it would go Protoinquisitor > Inquisitor > Hierinquisitor > Arch-Inquisitor/Elder Inquisitor > Elder Inquisitor > Master Inquisitor > Grandmaster [Inquisitor]

[shylarah]

Grandmaster is better than just Grand or Master on their own, I like it.

[Lovejoy]

Wow, you guys have been busy! There have been some really cool suggestions! I do agree with Draken in that we probably shouldn't have too many rankings for the inquisition, beyond like, two or three "tiers". I'm also not certain if there's a real world analogue to how inquisitors are trained, like is there a military with a decade long training curriculum for their officers? That complicates things and doesn't really make it simple to translate our inquisitor rankings to the real world.

I will also mention that I picture the inquisition as being less regimented than the military. Ranks could be more ceremonial and less tied to general ability. There is a sense of seniority, but I don't feel like it should be all that pronounced. For example, I see Elisheva and the rest of us as having the same rank, even though she graduated two years before us. The advanced ranks should probably be left for people like our teachers, who've served for a long time and have achieved great things.

Also, I don't feel like most inquisitors would really give a shit about advancing in rank, since the Seminary has trained them through rod and steel to just be content and to strive to serve and fight in battle-- in contrast with the Clerical Branch, which I picture as nest of vipers.

So yeah, the inquisition are warriors by definition. We all fight on the frontlines while the clerical branch act more as the generals and decision makers. That being the case, I don't think most inquisitors would rise above a real world military rank that would take them out of battle, so, that would probably make the inquisition's hierarchy a lot smaller than a real military.

I also don't really want to use the word "knight" for the Varyan inquisition. I feel like the medieval aesthetic should best be left to Lanostre, with their goddess being known as a Queen and such.

So, taking into account what everyone posted, here's what I came up with:

***

Acolyte: A title given to young children who are brought to the Red Seminary to undergo training to become inquisitors in the Varyan church. At this beginning stage, they are put through six months of brutal training. Those who cannot keep up with the regiment are either transferred to the Holy Academy (where they will study and train to join the clerical branch of the church) or are judged to be unfit to join the clergy and are removed from the Seminary. After six months, the children must pass the First Milestone, a test of extreme physical duress. Not many survive the First Milestone unscathed, but those who pass are given the title of "Brother" or "Sister" and are then recruited to join different Warbands, battle groups which they will remain in for the rest of the Red Seminary's curriculum and beyond.

War Priest: Five years into training, and after surviving through two more Milestones, acolytes are officially ordained as war priests of the Varyan Church and are given the title of "Father" or "Mother". At this point, they start training and competing against other Warbands.

Inquisitor: After twelve years of training and the completion of the final Sixth Milestone, warpriests achieve Culmination and are ordained as inquisitors of the Varyan Church.

Warleader: The squadron leader of an inquisitorial Warband. This individual is elected by the warband itself, and is in charge of commanding the group. Their authority is not without its limits, and a Warleader can be replaced if the warband deems them unfit for duty.

*GM's Note* I think shy came up with this idea and I sort of love it? It'd make sense for warbands to have a defacto leader. Now, how to decide who will be the leader of Warband Phoenix? Should we vote? Maybe we can have it be anonymously? This could be fun! Let me know what you guys think!

Master Inquisitor: Inquisitors generally serve within their Warbands until they are granted the rank of Master Inquisitor, at which point they are then given command of entire companies comprised of different warbands and SA platoons. (Mother Indira and Father Antonin are of this rank)

High Inquisitor: The highest rank most inquisitors can reach, only given to those who've proven their valor and strength countless times over through many years. They command entire divisions comprised of soldiers and warbands. It is said that High Inquisitors are chosen by Lord Varya himself. (Father Creid and Father Gregoroth are of this rank)

Bishop: A legendary title that has been bestowed to only a scant few inquisitors throughout the empire's history. Bishops are known as "Varya's champions" and wield power and authority over not just the inquisitorial branch, but over the clerical branch as well. The ordination of a Bishop by Lord Varya is a tremendous thing indeed, as it disrupts the divine hierarchy of the Church itself, and throughout history, the rise of an inquisitorial Bishop has caused much chaos within the clerical branch. It is believed that Varya chooses His champions in order for them to play a very specific part in His designs, as they are gifted with eternal youth and other mysterious powers. Curiously, all of Varya's previous Bishops have met with mysterious ends. The Bishop of the current age, Aleksandre, currently clashes with the clerical branch, and it is rumored that his powers are diminishing.

***

So yeah, I kind of shrunk things down a bit from what you guys were suggesting, as I don't want the hierarchy to be too complicated. Let me know what you think!

[shylarah]

@Lovejoy I like it. A note: commandeer means to order someone to give something to you, or thereabouts. I think you just want "command" under High Inquisitor

And we do need some sort of first Inquisitor, the one in charge of the entire order. Maybe Grandmaster? Bishops is skill, but there needs to be someone in charge of day-to-day stuff.

skill rankings was just a way to keep track of ...well, skill. I imagine there's Inquisitors that never become Masters, simply because they lack the ability for leadership. They are probably left as veteran Inquisitors and assigned to some Master Inquisitor or other, probably one from their original warband.

And the warbands probably handle their day-to-day affairs differently from warband to warband. I'll say again that Ziotea should not be the warleader, under any circumstances. My friend I talked to while trying to come up with terms actually is the one that suggested it, and I liked it and passed it on. ^.^

In terms of who Ziotea'd support...I don't think Rodion has the skill for leadership. RAgnar is sweet, but naive. Actually, she probably would pick Galahad, mostly because Stina is not the brains of this outfit.

[Draken]

This reminds me: how many more people are there in Warband Leviathan? I think it was mentioned half of us are going to El, and the (not player) half is staying in Varya. We might want to just cut that half out and chalk it up to the dropout and mortality rates.
For that matter, I would recommend Father Ilya as the put-up-with leader of Leviathan, but if Mother Indra had any say in the matter (and she most certainly did), that would never be the case. Unless perhaps it was decided at the very end? Only that does not make sense to me - the Red Seminary would want to hammer out the major kinks in group dynamics before letting a warband loose in the world.

[Lovejoy]

@shylarahThanks for the correction! I knew that but, yeah. I'm a dumb. :p

As for there being someone in charge of the entire order, I think some High Cardinal from the clerical branch would probably be in charge of the inquisitors and the logistics of running them as an organization. Maybe this particular priest was a high inquisitor before, but yeah, I feel like they'd need to be in the clerical branch.

[shylarah]

@Draken Oh gods. Ahaha, that could be fun. I can buy this.

@Lovejoy Inquisitors can stop being Inquisitors?! oooh~

So the highest members of the clerical branch outrank the highest members of the Inquisition. There could still be a Grandmaster, but there also could be a very small number (probably no more than ten, most likely four to sixish?) of top rank members that report directly to whichever person in the clerical branch is officially in charge of all the Inquisitors. It sounds like there's enough High Inquisitors that there does need to be one level with just a few members -- and since Bishop is skill-based and has a special holy purpose, I don't think it fits.