[OOC] Forgotten Worlds

[DELETED32084]

@Willy Vereb Yes, please leave. And take your recycled state with you.

[Crispy Octopus]

@Willy Vereb@Dinh AaronMk

To preface, I am in agonizing back pain at the moment and needed to distract myself. Normally I would not do something so pointlessly stupid. Also I'm on muscle relaxants and in pain so, grain of salt.

But here we are. Willy's claim is 38509 pixels.

The distance from 10N to 67N is ~6324km. On the image it is 947 pixels.

So 6324/947 gives us a rough value of 6.68km to one pixel. Pixels are square units, but since that measurement gives us one side we know that a pixel square is about 44.6 km squared.

So one pixel is 44.6 km squared.

38509 * 44.6 = 1,717,501 km squared.

This is extremely generous given how I selected his stuff, so pare it down to 1.5 or something.

Delving into the drama:

The size is irrelevant. The issue is that you're trying to be Great Britain while living in a climate less hospitable than iceland Willy. Canada is huge, but most of it is frigid wasteland. Speaking of Canada, you more or less claimed Baffin Island (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baffin_Island). Magic can only go so far before there just isn't anything to eat. So Aaron is right, make your homeland somewhere worth living.

Addendum:

If Bee leaves I might make a new nation. I kinda based a lot of history on him and while I like Lio's Dunfender I'd rather be in the more crowded south if the north gets depopulated.

[Willy Vereb]

To preface, I am in agonizing back pain at the moment and needed to distract myself. Normally I would not do something so pointlessly stupid. Also I'm on muscle relaxants and in pain so, grain of salt.

@Crispy Octopus

I am regretful to hear that and regardless thank you for the help.

But here we are. Willy's claim is 38509 pixels.

The distance from 10N to 67N is ~6324km. On the image it is 947 pixels.

So 6324/947 gives us a rough value of 6.68km to one pixel. Pixels are square units, but since that measurement gives us one side we know that a pixel square is about 44.6 km squared.

So one pixel is 44.6 km squared.

38509 * 44.6 = 1,717,501 km squared.

This is extremely generous given how I selected his stuff, so pare it down to 1.5 or something.

Oh, I thought you used a program to calculate the amount of purple pixels. Although with high levels of transparency that may not work, now that I think of it.
I personally used simple rectangular approximations and length dividends of the distance between 10 to 67 latitude (the only fix number we have). Galhonore (Southern continental holdings) being a 1/4th length multiplied by 1/12th length. The majority of the Northern continental holdings can be approximated to IIRC a 1/8th x 1/8th square. The remainder can be imagined to fit in an 1/8th x 1/16th claim.
I need to redo the measurements to confirm these numbers but that's how I remember the way I did it.

The size is irrelevant. The issue is that you're trying to be Great Britain while living in a climate less hospitable than iceland Willy. Canada is huge, but most of it is frigid wasteland. Magic can only go so far before there just isn't anything to eat. So Aaron is right, make your homeland somewhere worth living.

My core worlds' landmass is bigger than Sweden and roughly at the same latitude with plenty of water access. This is no paradise but neither is unlivable, especially since a number of those islands are actually in the moderate climate zone so even just derived from the longitude this is better off than Sweden. And the Swedish Empire was a powerful nation in its time in spite of its low population.
Following the colonization of islands their next target was further up North so no problem. As for the Southern conquest it's still something I wouldn't call impossible. It depends on the state the region was in. If it were a powerful nation say comparable to medieval France then perhaps Yllendthyr would've never taken them. But not all nations are as strong as West European major powers. Nor the land which is now Galhonore was necessarily united.

Anyways, when me and Aaron were talking about the size the topic involved a ruling which meant newer players should have smaller nations. My only response to that was the fact my nation is already considered smaller than what most of the old players were making. And I am fine being smaller and less important than them.

I have no problem with the idea of changing details about my nation. I have problem when the follow up response is passive aggressive and authoritative. To my knowledge I did not provoke such a response and it rubs me in the wrong way.

[Mistiel]

@Mistiel, we have to talk. First up, what didn't you get about my post? My guys were there to build good relations and propose trade, not to boast about their land. I wanted trade; Copper and agricultural products in exchange for manufactured goods and weapons. So I don't get why you are trying to build hostilities between your nation and mine.

@Letter Bee

Alright, alright, alright, fine Mezzo is gonna be City of Assholes. Soprano's gonna want to trade with you. Castrato is going to have the males trying to setup a black market trade that the females don't know about. IDK about any of the other cities so far. Their reactions are more just like..."Cool! Bards...meh."

[Willy Vereb]

I mean conflict is a a very good plot device for more interesting developments to happen and Mistiel IIRC made this faction on a whim. So I can see the benefit in Mezzo behaving like assholes. It's the quickest way for something unique to happen.

Anyone want to be a poor unfortunate soul lost out in the Dust Sea, near death or on the way to it, for Ridahne to find? You could come to Atakhara and get cuddles from Mitaja..... :D

@Blackfridayrule

Hmm, in case it turns out my feelings were misplaced and I do remain in this NRP... I do have an interesting character for that.
Being Yelinor the deserts would be extra dangerous to them anyways. :P

[Blackfridayrule]

*eats popcorn while watching the battle rage*

Y’all realize this is a fantasy role play and we’re all here playing glorified pretend, right?

For the record, Azurei is so big because it’s mostly desert wasteland and it’s population is wicked small. It’s as big as it is because who the heck else wants an empty desert? Lolol.

Anyway, Willy I already found me a victim of the unforgiving sands bwahaha. You aren’t being threatened by anyone, but you are being a wee bit butthurt. Stay if you want, leave if you want, but like, bro, chill.

[Crispy Octopus]

@Willy VerebI used a polygonal lasso to outline all your holdings. I could have been more accurate if I took the time but 1.5-1.7 mil km^2 is good enough for me.

[Willy Vereb]

@Willy VerebI used a polygonal lasso to outline all your holdings. I could have been more accurate if I took the time but 1.5-1.7 mil km^2 is good enough for me.

@Crispy Octopus

That sounds like a way more accurate method than mine so yeah, I suppose I am sitting at 1.7 million square kilometers, then.

[Dinh AaronMk]

My core worlds' landmass is bigger than Sweden and roughly at the same latitude with plenty of water access. This is no paradise but neither is unlivable, especially since a number of those islands are actually in the moderate climate zone so even just derived from the longitude this is better off than Sweden. And the Swedish Empire was a powerful nation in its time in spite of its low population.
Following the colonization of islands their next target was further up North so no problem. As for the Southern conquest it's still something I wouldn't call impossible. It depends on the state the region was in. If it were a powerful nation say comparable to medieval France then perhaps Yllendthyr would've never taken them. But not all nations are as strong as West European major powers. Nor the land which is now Galhonore was necessarily united.

Anyways, when me and Aaron were talking about the size the topic involved a ruling which meant newer players should have smaller nations. My only response to that was the fact my nation is already considered smaller than what most of the old players were making. And I am fine being smaller and less important than them.

I have no problem with the idea of changing details about my nation. I have problem when the follow up response is passive aggressive and authoritative. To my knowledge I did not provoke such a response and it rubs me in the wrong way.

@Willy Vereb

Whether or not the bulk of those islands and landmass is in temperate zones is irrelevant since your people would be originating in a territory as harsh or harsher than Iceland, as me and Crispy has just established. What this implies is that the physical conditions of the region should be so harsh you're not really at a position to organize to form an Empire. If anything, you're at the mercy of other people, or a tribe of people somewhere in the north that might get called in as mercenaries from time to time. The most reliable food source may be the sea, but the sea would hardly be a significant agricultural bounty on which to build a civilization that'll do anything more than raid like vikings.

Keep in mind that when Scandinavea is used as a comparison a lot of its population is centered further south. It wasn't the Sami who marched south to conquer the proto-Germans, it was the Germans in the south that spread out and conquered the lands around them. Your positioning is rather poor to make an Empire so organized it can think to use three simultaneous currencies.

[Crispy Octopus]

So being kinda loopy and still in pain I did this:

SC: 5,551,094 km^2
AZ: 4,094,503 km^2
DN: 2,092,409 km^2
YL: 1,770,352 km^2
SR: 1,748,543 km^2
NG: 770,019 km^2
SL: 741,564 km^2

I missed some people but w/e. Those numbers should be accurate.

Also @Willy Vereb Europe also has the climate magic that makes it warmer at northern latitudes, most places on Earth at that latitude are Baffin island like. Not sure if we're embracing that climate magic in Europe or not.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

Whether or not the bulk of those islands and landmass is in temperate zones is irrelevant since your people would be originating in a territory as harsh or harsher than Iceland, as me and Crispy has just established. What this implies is that the physical conditions of the region should be so harsh you're not really at a position to organize to form an Empire. If anything, you're at the mercy of other people, or a tribe of people somewhere in the north that might get called in as mercenaries from time to time. The most reliable food source may be the sea, but the sea would hardly be a significant agricultural bounty on which to build a civilization that'll do anything more than raid like vikings.

Keep in mind that when Scandinavea is used as a comparison a lot of its population is centered further south. It wasn't the Sami who marched south to conquer the proto-Germans, it was the Germans in the south that spread out and conquered the lands around them. Your positioning is rather poor to make an Empire so organized it can think to use three simultaneous currencies.

@Dinh AaronMk

I don't really feel it's fruitful to get into a longer debate about my position. I can dispute the absoluteness of its impracticality, especially in a fantasy nationgame, but you're the game master and as such you have the final say in this matter to begin with.

Actually, I wanted my homeland to be on the large northernmost island but I felt it might make my claim bigger and stretch the credibility of the narrative about Yllendthyr being ruled by an elite in minority. Although you gave me a few ideas how to ensure that the Yelinor are still just a small portion of the total population.

I did grew a bit as a result, albeit a good portion of these territories would be sparsely populated.
So it's overall actually might be a downgrade?

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Alright, alright, alright, fine Mezzo is gonna be City of Assholes. Soprano's gonna want to trade with you. Castrato is going to have the males trying to setup a black market trade that the females don't know about. IDK about any of the other cities so far. Their reactions are more just like..."Cool! Bards...meh."

@Mistiel

Ah, thanks, Mist! Although note that because of Willy Vereb's actions, I might still leave. Which is a shame, as I love Soprano now.

Edit: Oh, Willy moderated said actions a bit; I didn't see.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Mistiel>

Ah, thanks, Mist! Although note that because of Willy Vereb's actions, I might still leave. Which is a shame, as I love Soprano now.

@Letter Bee

Might I ask why? I only read deleted posts so that does not divulge much information about your decision.
If you don't feel like telling it here, you can also do it in PMs.

[Crispy Octopus]

Alright. If Bee does decide to leave I'll move down south.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>Might I ask why? I only read deleted posts so that does not divulge much information about your decision.
If you don't feel like telling it here, you can also do it in PMs.

@Willy Vereb

See my edit, but the main problem is that you accused Aaron of throwing threats after he got exasperated at perceived godmoding, which in turn turned out to be just a misunderstanding; a misunderstanding now resolved by @Crispy Octopus' clarifications. The accusation of threats left a bitter taste in my mouth, you see. Add that to the fact that I do agree with Aaron; originating in cold territory does make it hard to build an Empire and the IRL Scandinavians did cluster on the less hostile southern parts.

[Letter Bee]

Alright. If Bee does decide to leave I'll move down south.

@Crispy Octopus

Willy Vereb decided to calm down and stop accusing the GM of threats and insults, so I might not leave after all.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

See my edit, but the main problem is that you accused Aaron of throwing threats after he got exasperated at perceived godmoding, which in turn turned out to be just a misunderstanding; a misunderstanding now resolved by @Crispy Octopus' clarifications. The accusation of threats left a bitter taste in my mouth, you see. Add that to the fact that I do agree with Aaron; originating in cold territory does make it hard to build an Empire and the IRL Scandinavians did cluster on the less hostile southern parts.

@Letter Bee

I seriously doubt godmodding was ever on the table here so I sure am relieved if such misunderstanding got cleared up.
BTW, just a fun note. The former Yelinor homeworld is now retconned into troll land. Troll tribes in primitive conditions live there which is quite amusing in this context.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>I seriously doubt godmodding was ever on the table here so I sure am relieved if such misunderstanding got cleared up.
BTW, just a fun note. The former Yelinor homeworld is now retconned into troll land. Troll tribes in primitive conditions live there and gladly accepted to serve the Empire for their various benefits. Yes, they pretty much get exploited but for the time being it's win-win for the two.

@Willy Vereb

Now that's worldbuilding I like.

Everyone Else: I feel guilty for the drama caused. Not apologizing because my apologies ring hollow, but just saying I feel bad for it.

[Crispy Octopus]

@crispy octopus

First, please forgive any and all typos and errors in this response as I used a phone to type this out. Secondly, I think it’s briliant, though I would like to ask what your nation thinks of northerners (aka Dunfender) or are they also considered westerner? Asking because I want to know if we have established trade, it’s likely that our people have come in contact before.

@Liotrent

Now that all.... That.... Is cleared up. I can reply to this!

It'd be iffy Lio, some would consider you different from the Westerners, others would lump you in. The Yemarae share your opinion on goblins though, so I imagine you'd have cordial relations with the northern tribes while the southern ones view you with distrust.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>
Now that's worldbuilding I like.

@Letter Bee

That's pretty much what I can guarantee for each region.
For example there's a wild land ruled by nomadic centaur warlords. Yllendthyr only has a thin slice of that, though.