[OOC] PARALYSED- BloodyRed Vs. Doc

[Doc Doctor]

Heya buddy!
@BloodyRed

Go ahead and pick which of my characters you feel best matched against. You may skip Gonad, The Magna Pater, Auz, and Kentucky Tom. They're not the right tier. The others may be from different time periods but that's no prob. I shall remove their weapons and equipment for the fight.
We can roll with whatever setting you like, if you want upload an image of a place to scrap.

For reference, 'peak human' means they could match a world record or rival the greatest living humans in their areas of expertise.

Donny is athletic human in all of his physical abilities, has peak human intellegence in regards to fight I.Q.

Zande is athletic human in static strength, has good reach, lots of dynamic power, and peak human running speed and jaw strength.

Kull is athletic human, with lots of face-to-face combat experience and high static strength like a classic strongman. Never skips leg day.

Catskull is pure heavyweight, athletic and skilled enough to get a title fight in modern times.

roleplayerguild.com/topics/87852-docs…

@BloodyRed

[BloodyRed]

I may in the future make some other fighters. But the character Red doesn't actually have a set style. Is part of the fun that I created for him. The only style I really created for this character is he is unorthodox. He has some interesting extreme ideas about martial arts.

Donny and Kull from what you presented sounds the most fun to fight out the choices that I was given. But honestly, I've no problem fighting any of them.

You seem like the type of person that would have fun in a street fight. It has been a while since I've done an old dirty brawl. Classic maybe 4-6 foot wide, dumpsters trash cans you know New York style, Boston style, any major city-style alleyway. I can try to drum up a picture if you like.

I think in one of the fight areas that someone may they made there is an alleyway.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Perfecto. I'm in the mood to use Kull, so I'll adjust him to the setting. You may post your sheet and I'll create the intro.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor

What about the punch to the armpit? Would happen same time tried to brake his thumb. If landed it stopped his heart and knocked him out or at least sent him to his knees as body stalled or be a rib shot an it crack a few ribs.

Which was my counter I knew you go for the grab.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Red can still throw his punch but note that the *KRIK* in my description, or the sound effect of Red's thumb being broken, occured after the half-step.

Studying your post, I see that Red takes the half-step and then slides parallel with Kull, using his momentum to pull Kull into the punch for added power after locking out his arm. Thus, taking that order into account, Kull's arm would ultimately not be locked out if he broke the thumb, and he'd not take the punch at full power if Red carried through anyways.
I'm not saying Kull won't get hit, but his move kinda interrupts Red's.

As for the heart stopper, here's a quote from the Wikia on that.

"...Impact occurring within a specific 10– to 30-millisecond portion of the cardiac cycle. This period occurs in the ascending phase of the T wave, when the ventricular myocardium is repolarizing, moving from systole to diastole (relaxation).
The small window of vulnerability explains why it is a rare event. Considering that the total cardiac cycle has a duration of 1 second (for a base cardiac frequency of 60 beats per minute), the probability of a mechanical trauma within the window of vulnerability is 1 to 3% only. That also explains why the heart becomes more vulnerable when it is physically strained by sports activities..."

Now it IS technically possible, but Red would have to be flat out superhuman to perform it at will, as he'd need the senses and utterly flawless timing to detect virtually everything about the state of his opponent's heart and attack at rhe right fraction of a millisecond. It's not really something any human in history has ever been able to do outside of a rare freak accident.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor
I have done it my self and seen happen more than once in reals. If it left open it's just very rarely left open. The move doesn't stop the heart and definitely it's more like a shock to the system. Cause your heart skip a few beats in a very violent fashion stopping it for a second few seconds and your nervous system to get a hell of a shock. Is very similar to the Muay knee knockout to the chest. Which is why also put in the post if he missed he would still hit him in the ribs cracking the ribs. Which was in the original post.

The likelihood that my hit would land before you able to reach my hand is highly likely and even if the land at the same time I still have time to counter. My thumb can only be broken if I choose to stay holding on. You are assuming a lot of my characters actions in that post. There are multiple easy answers to you grabbing my thumb as countermeasures and attacks.

Which is why you noticed in my style of play I say I aim or tries to do or another way of saying the same thing. I never claimed that I connect. I cannot tell you what damage your character takes. I can suggest what damage would be likely from my attack and what I am aiming for does if it connects and where it is intended. But I cannot write in my post that you take the damage. That an auto-hit. Because I don't know if you have a counter for that or what your Dodge will be. Your a tricky bastard and so am I.

I know I'm new to this particular server but I'm deftly not new to the style of fighting.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Of course, of course, I do the same thing by describing the likely effects of certain techniques. It's just another way to maintain control in a fight. I had supposed you were referencing the above kind of heart disruption in the Wikia, as I'm unfamiliar with the one you've brought up. Could I perhaps trouble you for a piece of reference material, maybe an online martial arts article, medical journal, or something similar that supports the validity of the technique?

Also, I must stand by my statement that Kull's counter would occur before the punch, as the order of the actions as they occur is evident in the posts. The *KRIK* occured after the half-step, meaning Kull went for Red's thumb as soon as he was grabbed.

And so, yes, Red can indeed let go before he's grabbed, and avoid the *Krik* before he finishes his half step, but that'd be /before/ his punch connects, or before he can even pull Kull in close.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor

Here's an idea so we don't spend forever trying to figure out if were going to move to the next post because we go back and forth for a while and I would have spent hours going through post and clipping them together to mostly explain my point. That is not like there's a whole bunch of studies on being punched in the armpit. I can post about them many pressure points in the armpit. What happens when you hit them what it does to the body how deadly at can be. And so forth and I would have to link like a whole bunch of articles me clipping the parts that are important of them are going back and forth about them. We could go back and forth about this for several days. Which I believe would result in some point. Me feeling that I prove my point and you disagreeing. Coming back around to just saying then just take it to the ribs. I can do that if you like but I feel like that would be a waste of both of our time. It would take the wind out of the role-play fight.

So if you want to concede the armpit punch knockout, that's fair. Which is why in the post I gave the option of rib shot which was more feasible and likely to hit.I think at this point the ribs would be the less argumentative and fair response.Instead of saying that you broke my thumb that you went for the grab and attempted to break it leaving me an open-ended response to your attack.

I'm not going to say landed a hit because that is auto hitting.

https://www.wattpad.com/33829076-role-play-101-vii-god-modding-explained

Auto-Hitting is one of the most infamous tools of God-Modding altogether. Auto-Hitting is the common name for "Automatically Hitting", which is pretty self explanatory. That is when you post your reply saying what you do, but you explain it as it just automatically hits the person.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Yeah, a similar rule may be found on this very Arena forum, in a link on the FAQs. Autohitting isn't an issue around here luckily.

I like deductive logic. If you can detail a reasonable depiction of a potential counter, and if you feel like it's a good one, go for it. I'm just wondering how the punch would occur reliably with the sequence of events as they're posted in relation to how you say they proceed now. Red would have to deal with the thumb grab before he slid his body parallel and launched the punch. Can Red counter the thumb grab and still move into position for a proper punch? That's what I wanna find out IC, nothing's ruined at all.

I apologize if I come off as rude or anything. I just kinda gotta flesh it out, perfectionist style, so everything is as clear as a Rocky Mountain river. Some things need to be clarified OOC and it's a bitch sometimes, oh yeah, but it's all a part of the process. The important thing is that we can communicate what occurs in the fight concisely and with supportive reasoning if we need to clarify details. Some people don't like me because I get tedious with that schtick.

By the way, how about any mma videos where a fighter gets dropped by a punch in the left armpit? The spleen doesn't count.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor

I looked, I never seen happen in a professional sanction fight. Mostly because professionals know to guard their ribs. I spent some time looking for the last few days and I can't find one. From personal knowledge of doing in martial arts and the few times, I've actually done it in a street fight. But everything that I can find, that is legitimate. Talks about the nerve cluster a little bit under the armpit. That makes your arm go dead for several moments. Because most everyone wants to talk about if you get someone in armpit you're supposedly supposed to poop in your pants. There is like a crap ton of stuff about it saying it works,then a more legitimate say it doesn't work and is just a dumb.

But I will concede the notion of the armpit knock out. At this point all I arguing for is the punch land on the ribs and breaks some.

Oh no, you don't come off as an ass. Reading text and trying to figure it out versus voice is always a bit different because you lose the inflection. I've had a lot worse squabbles when you're trying to come up with a solution for a misunderstanding or a miss communication in a fight. You're pretty civil actually.

As I reread the post to make sure that I got this correctly. I pulled arm closer and turn into the half step. Which to me would be a hard counter already, but just putting more force into it and just pulling down some little bit harder and a little more force or speed in the half step. Would counter the reach would it not or make it a harder for you to grab it. Because it would force the distant your arm to mine to be at a greater distance. You would have to then reach more across your body and mine. While your body was being forced to shift by pulling the shoulder and arm. That I'm grabbing in one direction while pulling the other shoulder the opposite? Forcing you into my punch even better?

With your permission. I'll write my counter to the grab and nailing the punch home. If you feel the post needs fixing hit me up and I'll fix it.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

I've compromised before, but I prefer to save it for when a sequence of events is unspecified. I'm a bit confused why you want to change my timing for the for the thumb snap. Kull began reaching for Red's thumb before he threw his punch. What's more, is not Red reaching across his body with his punch? I don't see why the punch is guaranteed to connect when Kull used a specific move to counter Red's technique earlier in the sequence of events, there's still factors that will need to be accounted for later. Recall that Kull was twisting his left forearm to make his thumb grab easier, and it'd serve also to deprive Red of most of his control over Kull's arm. Kull wouldn't misjudge the timing or distance for his technique any more than Red would misjudge his own. I suppose my point is that nothing is a sure shot right now, so until we see what becomes of the thumb grab we won't know what exactly follows. We should resolve everything in order.

But you do have the go ahead to post your counter. So long as it reasonably justifies the actions following it, I'll have no problem!

Here's a reference on finger snapping in general for self defence by the way.



P.S, I edited this post several times. Kept thinking of more stuff to say! Done now though.

[BloodyRed]

So this point I feelt is were not on the same page at all or close. I don't get how you see the events. In my mind, your left arm is fully extended straight no bend, when I grabbed it. My half-step makes my body evenly parallel with your left arm. (if I describe that wrong I apologize) When I put pressure on that arm it shifts your elbow and your shoulder in an improvised arm lock/elbow lock. (which you seem to agree by your response). So my left hand has a minimum of 12- 14 inches for to your ribs from my understanding. It is 100% completely unguarded. Twisting your wrist then breaking my thumb does not guard your ribs in any way so they would still be 100% unguarded. So I can't miss them. Unless you do something drastic. Which I did not see you do in your post.

Like we look like this L_. (you)
(my left) ^ I am the arrow, The dot you hand kind of but more like the outside of my torso. My body is not as skinny as the arrow but if that makes sense. The long part of the L would be your torso. The short part of the L and the _ would be your left arm.

If that helps any my understanding of the position that we are in.

Which is why I'm completely confused about how I cannot hit your armpit or your ribs at all because nothing is guarding or stopping me in any form or fashion in my mind that I can see. Regardless if you grab my thumb or not

Red was gripping Kull's forearm and seeking an armlock. Kull's eyes briefly widened in surprise and Red took his half-step, casting out his hard-trained technique with confidence.

from what I'm reading with what you did happens after I take the half a step which is at the exact moment that my punch starts. You are countering my first attack while my second attack is happening. I feel my punch would land against your ribs as you were turning your wrist or within milliseconds of.

When you try to turn your wrist I would also have the chance to not allow you to turn your wrist.when you turn your wrist in your arm is fully extended your arm doesn't completely flip over without rotation of your elbow which is impossible in that particular scenario. You have to pull me into you for you could twist your elbow because you're in an elbow lock to mean can't turn it or come inward either without great effort. So you have to reach over your arm and my hand to grab my thumb. The difficulty of that goes up a lot. That is the hardest finger to grab in this scenario. Now my pinky, on the other hand, would be the most effective. I have no guard against that particular finger at all or just punch the shit out of my hand. The only way to twist your wrist enough my thumb is on the outside facing you would be you have to pull your arm in towards you and up. Your arm should be to be about relatively even with my nipples when you start. Because when I pulled it into me would pull it down to my chest.

Are we seeing the events completely different or are we over arguing over semantics is I'm confused at this point. Absolute confused.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

I understand the position perfectly, that armlock is a popular one in Japanese wrestling. I really wish I knew exactly what to call it, might you know? Your above post also showed me what the primary issue likely is. In the first sentence of my last post Kull totally did bend his elbow before he was grabbed.

You also can't base the timing of my attack off of my description of Red's actions, as I already stated when it would occur. I did describe Red taking his half step, but that's just that, a description of what Red's doing. Kull began his counter as soon as he was grabbed. You also stated that Red slid his other foot into place to be parallel with Kull and pull him into the punch, far more bodily motion and commitment than the act of reaching to grab a finger.
It's rather unlikely that in the time it takes to turn a palm up, someone can take your flank and throw a punch practically fated to land. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a single fighter in the UFC who could avoid or deflect a jab. Independent from velocity, finding the shortest path of least resistance is a determining factor in these things.

The post states that Red was not throwing the punch as he stepped, though it does mention that he maintained his momentum, so it was undoubtedly a fluid counter. Still, to throw a punch with that force you need to have your feet grounded to power the blow, and Red wouldn't have finished getting into position by the time Kull counter-grabbed him as I see it. The distance Kull's right hand had to travel should be comparable to Red's, but the train that leaves the station first will also arrive at its destination first. Kull went for the thumb a few actions before Red threw his punch.

Regardless whether or not the punch actually lands, whether or not I have a practical answer for it has yet to be determined. It all depends. I deal out one move at a time so I don't get ahead of myself and write a lot of stuff that might get retconned by an early counter.
Speaking of which, Red never got to assume his stance. I interrupted that sequence of events with the nose crank, and as a result Red reacted with a counter before having begun the other actions he'd have performed in the ten seconds that never were. Just means he isn't in his stance.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor

I don't agree with your assessment at all. So were at an impasse.

So if you want to use the dice roller or a way for we can use something in a fairway of ending the dispute that I'll be happy with that.\ I believe we are past the point of logically changing either one of our minds. I believe we both feel that our logic is sound.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Right... Well sure, why not. OOC is boring!

How about Kull gets bruised ribs, Red gets a sprained finger but manages to slip free before Kull starts doing jujutsu stuff, and they wind up side by side.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor
I don't see how the ribs do not come out broken. They're not guarded in any anyway so they take full force of the punch. I definitely agree to compromise with the sprained finger.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

From my perspective I had a few ways to handle that situation, but in this case we're compromising and leaving the logistics for next time, right? I'd rather compromise on the damage, since it's a step above the blind luck of a dice roll.

Hold my beer, I got another idea...



A fractured reeb then!

[BloodyRed]

A few and take that deal.

[Doc Doctor]

@BloodyRed

Deal.

[BloodyRed]

@Doc Doctor

I am going try to get to post. But started 7 day 10-hour day job thats 2 hour 30 min from my house. I am run around like a mad man.

I try post soon.