The Ghost of Napoleon

[Antediluvixen]

<Snipped quote by Lady Lascivious>

Hopefully ICly...

@Letter Bee

I lied it was dynamite because I revel in anachronism and historical inauthenticity.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

LB, with all due respect - you keep apologizing for your outbursts, only to proceed to do outbursts immediately afterwards. I have trouble believing these apologies are genuine at this point.

@Jeddaven

Immediately afterwards? Sigh... While true, you should have noticed by now that instead of continuing to yell and threaten, I managed to regain my composure and keep myself coherent. Compared to my previous shows of bad temper, my current behavior, though not perfect, is still an improvement and can be negotiated with, whereas before I would have shouted and screamed for four or five hours.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

So since the joke flew right over the ol' dome there...trying to invade Britain is where he got his ass beat, here.

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Eh, don't sweat it. We're used to it by now.

@Yam I Am

Thanks, Yam; sorry for the double-post.

[Letter Bee]

Either way, be right back in 3 hours or so.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Jeddaven>

Immediately afterwards? Sigh... While true, you should have noticed by now that instead of continuing to yell and threaten, I managed to regain my composure and keep myself coherent. Compared to my previous shows of bad temper, my current behavior, though not perfect, is still an improvement and can be negotiated with, whereas before I would have shouted and screamed for four or five hours.

@Letter Bee

I realized how arrogant this statement was, true or not. I feel bad about it.

Nevertheless, I still feel like Pagemaster's phrasing could have been more clearly stated; he could have just said that my nation's backstory would have steered it to the point of open war with Britain (which didn't happen for two more years IRL and only after a second Egyptian Invasion of the Ottoman Empire). The grand majority of what I had was from IRL history, and I don't think any of you argued against that part.

(The exception was siding with the minorities in the Ottoman Empire close to the start of the RP.)

Edit: Sorry for the quadruple post!

Edit 2: Also, here is proof that my nation's history is IRL History:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_of…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian–Ottoma…

Edit 3: After consulting with someone else, I found out that I was dead wrong about Pagemaster's intentions and that he wasn't actually trying to intimidate me into dropping my nation claim through OOC smack-talk. I will admit fault for this, and also that I didn't know how the NRP community worked.

That said, despite my foolish and harsh words, it was an honest mistake; I was ignorant about how other people worked and I still am. But now I know just why I was wrong.

[Yam I Am]

Principalities of the Danube (Romania)

Name: Danubian Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia

Leaders: Alexandru Dimitrie Ghica of Wallachia and Ioan Sandu Sturdza of Moldavia

History:
In the wake of the First Russo-Turkish war of 1806, mutual fears of Napoleonic intervention appeared to have brought the conflict to an abrupt halt in 1812. In their haste, the Conventions which would cease the conflict overtured the vassal state of Moldavia - at the time a puppet of the Ottoman Empire - over to the jurisdiction of the Russian Empire as a protectorate. The Treaty of Bucharest that solidified this agreement of ceasefire would initially be greeted with mere hums from their Moldavian underlings, many of whom only saw the recent protectorate as merely a slight change of the guard. Few in the region could have predicted the rapid changes that would ensue in the wakes which rippled: As the Russian Army was transferred from the Balkans to Poland, the nominal protectorate which would be established in Iași soon grew accustomed to the distinct lack of lordship on beheadst of the Tsar in Saint-Petersburg.

Although established in nomine solo as the Danubian Principalities, de jure the Kingdoms of Wallachia and Moldavia were legally separate entities in spite of their common affiliation with the general geographic regions of the lands north of the Danube. The Principalities, in particular Wallachia, likewise still remained as tributary states of the Ottoman Empire, and were as such expected to return to the issue of stipends for the Imperial Tax.

In 1821, long simmered with the disappointment of the ingrainment of the hellenic Phanariote establishment, Wallachian revolutionary and court assistant Tudor Vladimirescu had launched a rebellion. While Vladimirescu was innately adept at both court politics of all stripes and had acquired a strong following from the Serbian Uprisings of 1812 and 1815, his charisma was often at odds with Vladimirescu's own goals, which constantly shifted in accords to the complex political situation and the rapid process at which the rebellion was unfurling in Wallacha. At first initially squared with the dislodging of solely the Phanariotes in the upper echelons of Wallachian aristocracy, the goals of Vladimirescu's rebellion often shifted as the situation did in accord. His own state of affairs was often found complicated by the myriad of revolutionaries which had assembled for his cause: Wallachia in particular sat in a unique geopolitical landscape, for Bucharest had been the hotbed for both revolutionaries from Serbia and from Greek revolutionaries lead by a certain Alexander Ypsilantis - both of whom Vladimirescu was quite familiar with. Initially, Ypilantis had little interest in aligning himself with the affairs of Serbia nor the cause of Romania, however his braggart nature had foiled his plans for a a clandestine uprising in the Peloponnese, which the Ottomans had caught onto after the Serbian revolts. This forced him and his Hellenic separatists into an alliance with Vladimirescu, who himself had allied with Serbian revolutionaries.

The 1821 rebellion would quickly be shown to be abortive: Vladimirescu's constant shifting of campaign goals put strains upon his hodgepodge armies, who each in turn expected different results from the rebellion. Managing the diverse interests of the Hellenic rebels - who in turn had largely viewed the charade as an alliance of opportunity against the Turks - the Romanian peasantry, and the Serb revolutionaries had led to a breakdown of cohesion by late summer, wherein the rebel armies quickly devolved into mass banditry. When news of the Ottoman armies arrived to the rebels, many simply dropped arms and fled, either to return to civilian life, or in the case of more accomplished revolutionaries, had fled across the border of Oltenia into Serbia or Transylvania. Vladimirescu himself would be captured by Ottoman irregulars in Bucharest and later executed in Târgoviște. Ypsilantis and his Greek revolutionaries pillaged whatever supplies they could from the countryside before retreating back to Greece, with several of Vladimirescu's most accomplished generals following suit. In the end, the Revolution of 1821 would prove to be futile, but the radical ideas which had spread as a result, combined with the devastation of much of Wallachia's rural peasant base, would soon prove the kindling for later years.

Lingering resentment over Ottoman occupation would simmer beneath greater Danubian ethos for the years to come. Due to the mass banditry which ensued between the fighting of Ottoman irregulars and of Vladimirescu's ill-trained bandit army, the Ottoman's increased taxation as a result of the rebellion would take years to fully repay, which in turn had a mutually crippling effect on the daily life of Wallachia's people. In display of solidarity between common brothers, Moldavian intellectuals and reformist clergymen, inspired by Enlightenment ideals, would often make pilgrimage to aid in their recovery, who in turn often interacted with Wallachian revolutionaries who had partook in Vladimirescu's rebellion or those who harbored sympathies towards his rebellious character. The actions of the clergy in particular often earned the scorn of much of the higher echelons of the Orthodox Church and the boyar aristocracy, over whom the issue of slavery of Gypsies in the Principalities became a hotly contested issue. Many younger and lower-ranking clergy, inspire by Enlightenment ideals of abolitionism and the natural rights of man, which was syncretically combined with the teachings of Christ, had taken fault with the adoption of slavery, which in turn would continue to send rifts across the Orthodox world between revolutionary reformists and the entrenched elites.

Soon after, inspired by the recent Russo-Turkish War of 1828, several intellectuals and clergy of the Orthodox Church opted to fight as co-belligerents in the ensuing war. Leading the 1828 Revolution would be Ionică Tăutu, a Moldavian low-ranking boyar, Enlightenment-inspired pamphleteer, and craftsman, whom returned from self-exile in Constantinople two years prior. With the intention of initially enacting sweeping social reforms - most prudently the issue of slavery and peasants rights - the revolt quickly turned into the outright abolition of the boyar class and the removal of Ottoman influence from the Principalities. Fighting alongside him would become a distinguished figure, a Macedonian prince by the name of Aleksandar Konstantin Valentinov, who won several key victories over the Ottomans such as in the Battle of Silistra, where he and his revolutionaries would route the Ottoman armies along the Danube and would chase them all the way to the Black Sea. In spite of the sweeping military successes of the rebellion, Ionică passed away in late 1828, which in turn heavily fractured the rebellion along separate lines of concession. Some held fast to Ionică's ideals of the creation of a new constitution in the Principalities inspired by western ideals, including proposed habeas corpus, free trade, as well as a radical definition of private ownership which denied confiscation under any circumstances. Ionică himself was an adversary of the French Revolution, citing the necessity for the privileges of the boyar class in maintaining social order in stark contrast to the actions of Napoleon. Nevertheless, he found his ideas co-opted by various revolutionaries: In particular, Wallachian poet and revolutionary Sorin Cosminescu, who demanded from the revolutionary goals an abolition of the boyar and ecclesiastical aristocracy, sweeping land reforms for the peasantry, free press, free assembly, and the establishment of a revolutionary Republic.

In the aftermath and much like its predecessor in 1821, the revolution failed to achieve many of the original demands outlined by its founding revolutionaries. Moldavian revolutionaries were more willing to compromise than those found in Wallachia, which lead to many original demands being dropped or lessened in severity. The result was outlined in the 1829 Treaty of Adrianople: Greece would be given full independence while Serbia would be given autonomy. The Danubian Principalities would be jointed together under the same judiciary state with extended autonomy, while both Wallachia and Moldavia remained to serve as Russian protectorates. Wallachia in particular would also gain control over Dobruja, with the exception of the city of Köstence (Romanian: Constanța) to act as the Ottoman forward garrison in the region. In practice, the Principalities operated de facto as independent states, and in spite of the nominal political union between Wallachia and Moldavia, the two remained as functionally independent entities: Both had separate heads of state under different princes, had their own sets of laws even written in separate scripts. Although the Principalities are de jure a Russian protectorate, in reality they are sparsely protected, and Russian hard power over the Principalities remains minute, sparing Russian garrisons stationed in Chișinău and Cetatea Albă.

As a result, the Revolution of 1828 was often seen as abortive or incomplete: It gained for the Principalities a little more political freedom, but did little to alleviate the social demands of many of its revolutionaries in regards to issues such as slavery, elections, and the powers of the boyars. It did achieve one vital thing, however: It gave the confidence in Danubian revolutionaries that the Ottomans could be militarily defeated. Many in Moldavia, inspired by the Revolution of 1828 and the courageous actions in the Napoleonic Wars, fashioned themselves into self-styled revolutionary hussar corps which they called "Cărvunari", after an antiquated Romanian rendition of the Italian carbonari. Following in their lead, the first organized liberal movement, taking inspiration from the French Revolution and having for its stated purpose the encouragement of culture, was Societatea Filarmonică (the Philharmonic Society), established in 1833. Both would grow in magnitude and influence throughout the recent years, heavily inspired from Napoleonic ideals of liberty and the heroic mythos which had grown around figures such as Vladimirescu and Tăutu, where they call for a truly unified Principalities free of Ottoman influence.

Many revolutionaries take note from or actively collaborate with several revolutionaries from other South European states, in particular Serbian revolutionaries, with whom the mutual cooperation and ease of travel between one another has formed a hotbed of revolutionary activity all across the Balkans. With the outbreak of even more insurrectionist activity, including mass peasant strikes in 1834 as well as the combined actions of the Cărvunari and the Societatea against the Ottomans in Constanța - both of which invited heavy-handed responses from the latter - it would not take much to ignite this powder keg once again...

[Yam I Am]

WIP Map of Europe for this, lemme know if anything needs editing/changing for people's lore

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Letter Bee Bee, gotta be honest with you. Didn't think I'd wake up and do a shift of work to come back to forty-some-odd posts of squabbling with you about shit. Especially when I can say without any irony: damn you got the whole gang laughing. And if this is the sort of thing I can expect, and the absolute inflexibility of anything then I will have to deny you. And not only for that, but for the first time deny you for posting cringe.

If you want to be a part of this RP after this, then I will have to state: you must now go to the Balkans or the Baltics.

God damn it.

@Yam I Am
Checks out chief, welcome aboard.

[Letter Bee]

@Letter Bee Bee, gotta be honest with you. Didn't think I'd wake up and do a shift of work to come back to forty-some-odd posts of squabbling with you about shit. Especially when I can say without any irony: damn you got the whole gang laughing. And if this is the sort of thing I can expect, and the absolute inflexibility of anything then I will have to deny you. And not only for that, but for the first time deny you for posting cringe.

If you want to be a part of this RP after this, then I will have to state: you must now go to the Balkans or the Baltics.

God damn it.

@Yam I Am
Checks out chief, welcome aboard.

@Dinh AaronMk

And I will respect your decision (Yes, this is an edit).

[Yam I Am]

If you want to be a part of this RP after this, then I will have to state: you must now go to the Balkans or the Baltics.

@Dinh AaronMk

And I will respect your decision (Yes, this is an edit).

@Letter Bee

Welcome to the club

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>
<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

Welcome to the club

@Yam I Am

I notice that the map still has Greece as Ottoman. Can you help me remedy that ICly?

[Yam I Am]

I notice that the map still has Greece as Ottoman. Can you help me remedy that ICly?

@Letter Bee

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>

@Yam I Am

Oh. I meant the map Dihn posted on the OOC OP. That was the IRL map and not the RP Map?

Edit: Nevermind; I was blind.

[Letter Bee]

@Dinh AaronMk, as you're here, I have to ask: What exactly was so wrong with the Egyptian Sheet? Or would it have been accepted if not for my attitude?

[Yam I Am]

@Dinh AaronMk, as you're here, I have to ask: What exactly was so wrong with the Egyptian Sheet? Or would it have been accepted if not for my attitude?

@Letter Bee

To make a long story short:

There isn't one: There was only one when you acted like these events that Muhammad Ali did historically were - as I said earlier - things he could do in a vacuum and wouldn't attract anyone's attention, when in reality, they all certainly did.

If you just made it clear that you're willing to go in knowing that Muhammad's actions likely would have resulted in the Oriental Crisis occurring to make Egypt a vassal state of the Ottomans again (as it did historically with a 5 nation coalition against Egypt), then...sure. There's nothing wrong with your sheet whatsoever.

Britain would be very interested in what might disturb the Middle East too much since it puts the security of India at risk. Napoleon's invasion of Egypt was a warning signal to the British it was time to take the region serious. They weren't the only ones incapable of playing around out there.

So Page threatning, "prepare to be bombarded" isn't an OOC threat to IC out of personal annoyance, but that the British would almost certainly see Egypt as a potential threat to India, or a means by which someone else might be able to fuck with India: the French again, perhaps.

Since a new power like Muhammad Ali would need sponsors on the mainland to do anything. And bludgeoning them with naval power would be a means to start negotiations.

We could suppose too that Russia being what it is, if it did become a Revolutionary state it could produce a Russian Napoleon and it would become a threat. Because the situation is tense and even if the Persians nibbled a bit of Russia off doesn't invalidate them in the wrong run. They are not PoW Russia. So you can make the same or similar Russian arithmatic too.

@Dinh AaronMk

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Yam I Am

Pretty much. Notarizing this post as a thing I said.

[Letter Bee]

<Snipped quote by Letter Bee>



To make a long story short:

There isn't one: There was only one when you acted like these events that Muhammad Ali did historically were - as I said earlier - things he could do in a vacuum and wouldn't attract anyone's attention, when in reality, they all certainly did.

If you just made it clear that you're willing to go in knowing that Muhammad's actions likely would have resulted in the Oriental Crisis occurring to make Egypt a vassal state of the Ottomans again (as it did historically with a 5 nation coalition against Egypt), then...sure. There's nothing wrong with your sheet whatsoever.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

@Yam I Am

Oh. Well, that makes sense.

So it was my misunderstanding Page which caused the mess in the first place. I can accept that - But it was still honest ignorance which caused the misunderstanding; I did not know how people work and admittedly didn't care to do so until August of last year.

[Antediluvixen]

We could suppose too that Russia being what it is, if it did become a Revolutionary state it could produce a Russian Napoleon and it would become a threat. Because the situation is tense and even if the Persians nibbled a bit of Russia off doesn't invalidate them in the wrong run. They are not PoW Russia. So you can make the same or similar Russian arithmatic too.

Well, if you insist.

[Dinh AaronMk]

<Snipped quote>

Well, if you insist.

@Lady Lascivious

[Antediluvixen]

<Snipped quote by Lady Lascivious>

@Dinh AaronMk

Damn that music slaps

now I know what to write this history to

I blame you if this inspires a more chaotic Russian starting point than initially planned, tho.