[OOC] Character Crossover Crisis City

[Rin]

Dead Cruiser said
It's only powers that would be "stripped." Archer's summoning magic,

I think Raineh's problem is that seeing how it basically works, it would pretty much be ripping Archer's soul right out of him. ^^;

[Dead Cruiser]

Rin said
I think Raineh's problem is that seeing how it basically works, it would pretty much be ripping Archer's soul right out of him. ^^;

Here's the solution.

[Psyga315]

Dead Cruiser said
Maybe something a little more in the vein of classic rock or pop. Just to fit the thematics.

Okay. Hm... Would [Dust in the Wind] count or are we going with a more harder sort of rock/pop?

[Dead Cruiser]

Psyga315 said
Okay. Hm... Would [Dust in the Wind] count or are we going with a more harder sort of rock/pop?

That's perfect, actually.

[Raineh Daze]

Still not convinced that this idea would be the slightest bit amusing. For no reason other than 'so the challenge works', we have characters losing their abilities, only to regain them in a roundabout way that means they're still largely powerless. So what does this achieve, exactly, that leaving the characters with their powers with the same obstacles wouldn't?

On top of that, I think Kane is the only guy buff enough to be a Jojo's character.7

---

From an IC perspective, what you're proposing is essentially having both my characters killed, then rolling with it anyway. All of Archer's powers above basic reinforcement stem from one thing: his very soul. Everything he can do is an expression of what he is. But you're proposing that this be entirely lost to facilitate a single idea, thus requiring an explanation for how a character's very identity just gets conveniently lost.

Suwako (who shall be appearing after this challenge), on the other hand, is entirely composed of faith. There is nothing supernatural about her; she's the result of faith directed in a general geographical region. To remove the supernatural from this is just to remove the character entirely.

I think you'd also KO Sorin, amusingly.

[Psyga315]

Dead Cruiser said
That's perfect, actually.

Sweet. Now to figure out its power... Hm... I could take the literal route and have it be something akin to blowing out streams of dust or take another route and relate it to [Bites the Dust] in the sense that it's explosion based (not making it too crazy like it... Think of those times where the Power Rangers pose and a large explosion happens behind them. That's the Stand's power in a nutshell)

[Kaga]

Dead Cruiser said
This is my basic idea: strip each character of their supernatural/special abilities, and then rework the abilities into a . The finer details can be worked out from there.

I have a couple questions/concerns:

1) What do you mean by "Stand"?

2) I feel like the very idea of making characters lose their special abilities would be tough to carry out, just because I suppose it sort of depends on what counts as a "special ability". Like, for example, Vash is a superb gunman - would that skill count as one of the abilities lost? And if so, to what extent would it be lost? Would his skill only drop down to, I dunno... not superhuman levels? Or would he lose completely lose all finesse with his gunmanship?

[Raineh Daze]

Kaga said
I have a couple questions/concerns:1) What do you mean by "Stand"?2) I feel like the very idea of making characters lose their special abilities would be tough to carry out, just because I suppose it sort of depends on what counts as a "special ability". Like, for example, Vash is a superb gunman - would that skill count as one of the abilities lost? And if so, to what extent would it be lost? Would his skill only drop down to, I dunno... superhuman levels? Or would he lose completely lose all finesse with his gunmanship?

A Stand is a thing from Jojo's. From what I remember, it's basically an invisible-to-non-stand-users quasi-magical shadow with supernatural abilities. The most famous is The World. It stops time. And punches.

[Psyga315]

Kaga said
2) I feel like the very idea of making characters lose their special abilities would be tough to carry out, just because I suppose it sort of depends on what counts as a "special ability". Like, for example, Vash is a superb gunman - would that skill count as one of the abilities lost? And if so, to what extent would it be lost? Would his skill only drop down to, I dunno... superhuman levels? Or would he lose completely lose all finesse with his gunmanship?

I think there's a vast difference between skill and power.

Skill is exactly what you described: superb gunman.

Powers on the other hand are things. They're things that push the boundary beyond simple "superhuman gunmanship" or "skilled driving". We're talking using magic or breathing fire. Though it's up to Dead Cruiser to say what counts as a power and what doesn't.

Though I'm gonna wait for Grey to have the final say on if powers should be disabled for the JJBA challenge and if we get to keep out Stand Powers afterwards.

[Flamelord]

Well, I sent in my own little thing a while back, so that'll be fun when it's implemented. Because everyone likes a challenge.

[Raineh Daze]

Yes, Archer was hurt by the miasma. No, it isn't seriously enough to impair posting. He's on the thing's spine. Kinda safe.

[Dead Cruiser]

Kaga said
I have a couple questions/concerns:1) What do you mean by "Stand"?2) I feel like the very idea of making characters lose their special abilities would be tough to carry out, just because I suppose it sort of depends on what counts as a "special ability". Like, for example, Vash is a superb gunman - would that skill count as one of the abilities lost? And if so, to what extent would it be lost? Would his skill only drop down to, I dunno... superhuman levels? Or would he lose completely lose all finesse with his gunmanship?

1) A stand is "a powerful vision, created by your own life energy." In function it is an avatar of an individual's power, formed from spiritual or psychic energy. A few basic rules preside over their function, but exceptions to the rules are somewhat common. A person that can manifest as Stand is a "Stand User," and there is normally only one Stand to one user. Stands are a part of their user, and can be controlled freely by them, but any harm done to the Stand is likewise done to the user. Stands can only be seen by Stand Users, and can only be harmed by other Stands, or similar spiritual phenomena. Personas and Oversouls are both successors to this concept, so if you can understand them, you basically have the idea.

2) If it were up to me, I'd pass over to the Stand whatever the user has that could be considered a "power," rather than a "skill." Though it's possible that the Stand could just be something that augments the skill. 「Emperor」 is literally just a gun.

Anyway, GS, magic is not actually a necessity to unseal the Binding Blade. All it requires is a blood sacrifice (in game terms, combat damage to a player). The thing about spellcasters was just conjecture on Raineh Daze's part. In terms of translating game mechanics to the story, I consider the dragon to be Sorin's opponent, and therefore a "player," in the same way that any other character in the RP would be a "player."

[Raineh Daze]

That's a kind of illogical theory, though. It targets a player; players were originally--and have no reasonable analogue since--considered to be planeswalkers. As planeswalkers, this would make them magic users.Consequently, the logical sacrifice to unleash the demon is either 'planeswalker', 'powerful magic user', or 'magic user'. Conjecturing it to just be 'enemy' would have every summon transform the blade. >.>

... speaking of, told a guy about this card IRL, now he really wants to buy it. XD

[Dead Cruiser]

See, this is an example of Gameplay and Story Segregation, which happens to be a common thing in Magic. Elbrus requires combat damage to a "Player" and not a "Creature" because evading combat damage on a Creature is far easier than evading it as a Player. If it were combat damage to a Creature, the artifact would be considerably more difficult to transform, and would not be as playable. Even accounting for the Top-Down design of the Innistrad block, summons wouldn't transform the blade because they are just that, summons. The Shagaru Magara is an actual living thing (or as close enough that makes no difference), and therefore has blood that can be used to transform Elbrus. Furthermore, were it the case that only the blood of mages could unseal the blade, combat damage to Planeswalkers should also transform Elbrus, right? Again, due to game design, the inclusion of an uncommon permanent type was not necessary. It's all a matter of not taking things too literally, otherwise you have walls wearing pants and Nicol Bolas beating people with Nicol Bolas.

[Raineh Daze]

See, here's what I see as the problem: you're taking an item because it's interesting and has a magic card--but if we look at it in gameplay terms, you've pulled a unique magical artefact with an insane mana cost out of your ass. I'm not saying that Sorin wouldn't have that sort of thing around--but the buildup given to 'suddenly, one of the most expensive and generic (mana-wise) cards available' is totally unworthy of the effect.

In roleplay terms, you're arguing that the categories for M:tG effects be broadened so that, essentially, any effect requiring a creature or player can be fulfilled by literally any opponent. Rather broken, since it makes the actual target of cards irrelevant. You might be playing an experienced planeswalker, but producing any Black, White, or Colourless card that might be relevant on a whim gives you... what, 4,500 cards?

And on top of that, wanting to summon this demon is astonishingly bad. From what it is and what it does, it would seem more of a threat than the dragon--plus it's intelligent and inherently malevolent. All that releasing the binding would do in the long term is get Sorin killed.

[Dead Cruiser]

Come, come, we're making more assumptions here.

If you look back on my last few posts, Sorin has been gathering strength for quite some time, casting small spells that actually increase his power, meaning to snowball into a powerful effect such as this one. Summoning vampires and buffing allies are both +1 abilities for Sorin. Considering that he's been staying to the sidelines and defending himself, thereby taking very little damage, he actually has a decent amount of mana to work with. Also, you're exaggerating Elbrus' casting cost. Granted, it's the most mana-expensive equipment in the game, but that said in terms of artifacts and other cards in general, it's only sort of moderately-expensive. Seven mana really isn't all that much.

You're also leaping to conclusions. By denouncing that the flavor of a demon being released through a blood sacrifice does not specifically require a spellcaster's blood, I am not insinuating that any effect can apply to any target, as long as it's convenient for me. What I'm trying to do works thematically and dramatically, and so I'm working around the game-balancing elements of the card. And again, please don't make assumptions about me as a player; what gives you the slightest reason to believe that I would just summon "everything and anything" on a whim? If you'll look WAYYYY back, you can see that I'm already working within the bounds of the RP set for me, as mind control (something Sorin does quite casually and frequently) is something I have yet to use in the RP.

That last note is a matter of subjectivity. I plan on RPing out Sorin struggling to control the demon, should it be summoned. Not to mention, that we are not literally unleashing Withengar, here. Sorin is summoning a copy of the legendary demon. At what point is a summon ever out of a player's control without another player taking control of it or its actions?

[Flamelord]

Meanwhile, I continue to look forward to the time when my character will actually be useful in one of these challenges besides overloading lightning bugs.

[Grey Star]

I'm just going to say that the reason the demon summoning didn't work was due to the fact nowhere in Sorin's sheet did it say he had that nor did you PM me ahead of time to warn me about it, which would be common courtesy in scenarios such as this. Also the fact that the demon would have been more troublesome than the dragon to deal with too considering how much power it apparently has and I wasn't sure if it'd turn on the rest of the party.

[Dead Cruiser]

Grey Star said
I'm just going to say that the reason the demon summoning didn't work was due to the fact nowhere in Sorin's sheet did it say he had that nor did you PM me ahead of time to warn me about it, which would be in scenarios such as this. Also the fact that the demon would have been more troublesome than the dragon to deal with too considering how much power it apparently has and I wasn't sure if it'd turn on the rest of the party.

If you'd allow me, I'd just like to point out a few things. Firstly, if we look to Sorin's CS...

*Powers/Skills: Sorin is a master of Black magic, with a particular talent for psychic magic. He specializes in a secretive art known as Sangromancy, with which he can raise the dead, create minions, consume the life of his enemies, corrupt their flesh, or even control their minds. He is also adept in White magic, allowing him to strengthen and heal himself and his allies.

...we can see that "creating minions" is listed as one of his abilities. This is how I sort of strangely worded his ability to summon creatures to fight for him. Summoning this demon is working on the same principle as summoning his vampires or spirits or what have you. I apologize for not running this by you beforehand, but to do so hadn't crossed my mind, as I considered it no different from what he had already been doing, just on a larger scale.

Secondly the demon having to be "dealt with" or "turning on the party," is, again, conjecture on Raineh Daze's part, and is not actually a problem.

[Raineh Daze]

I disagree with using planeswalker loyalty counters as the same thing as mana. Essentially, you're giving yourself free infinite mana. You sure as hell didn't spend seven posts summoning vampires one at a time. Either stick to mana build-up and actually use it, or use the loyalty counters alone. Don't blend the two things and mutilate the system into total convenience. Summoning minions to attack giving you mana to use a ridiculously expensive artefact to summon (because ignoring what the rules imply and used to outright state!) an insanely powerful demon is more or less demanding that we accept that every magic rule is bent to facilitate things being as easy as possible for Sorin! Doesn't need to focus on gathering mana, can do that by attacking; doesn't need to worry about whether the target fits, all targets are equivalent; doesn't need to worry about finite knowledge, he has access to literally every damn card that can be played with black or white mana.