Firearms Discussion and Whatnot

[Kurai Assassin]

What are peoples opinions of Berretas

[HeySeuss]

What are peoples opinions of Berretas

@Kurai Assassin

Generally good, though they had a bad reputation in US military service due to slide problems (since repaired) on the 92S. The US military used crappy magazines for their issue weapons in the early days of OIF/OEF, and that's also given them a bad rap. That and the M9 replaced the M1911 in service when there was objectively little wrong with the 1911; the 1911 was chambered in .45 ACP which wasn't a NATO round, whereas 9x19mm is. So the US was forced to adopt the M9 to satisfy the Europeans...except, of course, lots of special operations units are going back to the 1911 in the first shooting war we've had since Vietnam because, guess what?

The 1911 still works and a lot of people think the 1911 is still a better weapon than a lot of the 9mm's out there.

That's a digression. When I fired one, I found it comfortable to use and easy to handle, despite the double-stacked magazine which can make some handgun grips (glocks, for example) too wide, so I like them well enough. I was accurate with it, and that's what counts for me as well. I also own a 1911, so I'm biased, but I don't think the 92S/M9 is a bad gun so much as that it's a full sized weapon competing with the king of combat handguns.

If you're looking for a compact, Beretta makes quite a few nice ones in that category, though I'd go with a Sig Sauer over a Beretta for reliability.

[Kurai Assassin]

I've never actually fired a Berreta, However ive fired Air Rifles. Would love to fire an M9 as it seems alot of Game Companies seem to like to use them in their games. they look pretty cool. 1911 everyone seems to know that name and know what they look like. i personally like the look of them.

[Foster]

What are peoples opinions of Berretas

@Kurai Assassin

From a design, and historical standpoint... not great.

1. The slide leaves the barrel exposed, saves weight. But also means even a light bit of shooting makes it liable to burn someone. It also means a bunch more shit can get into the action (easier to examine/clean though)

2. Early production-runs had major quality defects that have tainted its image worse than the original M16s. As a gun it's supposed to go bang when you pull the trigger and have a fair chance of hitting what you're aiming at... the Berreta didn't do too great at accomplishing either.

3. It's a 9mm, but has rather lackluster magazine-capacity. This was a trade-off for making it fit better in the hand.

To its credit, it's a double action and not a double-action-only. So follow-up shots tend to be easier (than a Glock, for example, maybe... it's literally splitting hair-triggers) and even the first isn't bad if you lock the hammer.

As for Russian Rifle Accuracy issues of asshatter...
-I know your pain with my Mosin Nagant. Corrosive ammo be nasty to the newbies..

[TheMadAsshatter]

The corrosion wasn't my problem. I've cleaned it as soon as I got home from the range every time I shot surplus ammo. I'm pretty sure I got it used and the idiot before me ruined it. Fucking pricks. This is why I'm going to make sure I never buy a used gun again.

But to answer your question, Kurai, I think the M9 is a pretty good gun. It has it's issues, yes, but it's a fairly well-rounded pistol. It doesn't hold a candle to numerous other pistols, but it's not the worst handgun around. There's several other Berettas that I'm sure everyone here will agree are better than the M9, but really, if you want a 9mm, buy a Sig, or an HK, or a CZ. Actually, just buy a CZ. I've heard nothing but good things about CZ 75s.

[HeySeuss]

I think the key to good handgun shopping is to try it before you buy it; rent at a range and see if you like it. That's how I found out that I essentially do not do well with Glocks and why I discovered specific handguns that I do like. H&K for that matter -- way too wide. But that is a common complaint with H&K handguns.

Can't say what's up for a CZ-75, though I've handled a Browning (well, a licensed Browning design produced by Mauser - long story) and it's a very, very, very similar layout. The CZ-75 has an excellent reputation, basically.

[TheMadAsshatter]

@HeySeuss One of the best handguns ever made, arguably #1 according to some. Definitely going to have to get one once I'm 21.

[Foster]

Why not just build one?

[TheMadAsshatter]

I've been considering building an AK with my own barrel and receiver, but it's not going to be any monstrosity like that. Nope, I'm getting an actual 1mm sheet to cut and build on. Not quite sure how I'll get the barrel done, though, but it'll probably involve paying someone to drill, cut, and ream it properly.

[HeySeuss]

Careful that you don't run afoul of federal law with that one. I don't know the specifics, but a little research is probably a good thing if you're considering that.

[TheMadAsshatter]

I'm pretty sure civilians can make their own guns, as long as they are serialized and never go up for public sale. I'm not certain about the specifics, but one gun store owner told me that once you die, the ATF would seize whatever guns you made and destroy them.

[Foster]

Actually, pretty sure serial and licensing isn't necessary-ish unless it's an automatic, a sawn-off, greater than .50 caliber or to be sold/transferred.

Which make ye wonder how BATF can determine when an unlicensed homebuild was built in someone else's home, and if it was done by the owner in someone else's home would count as joint-custody? (one could claim they track parts, but you can scratch-build entire guns with an illiterate 19th century French-maid's education and an anvil [lol. RSC mle. 1918])

Pretty sure 89% of the time we just refuse to worry about it until someone stumbles upon an unlicensed munitions-factory in someone's garage/basement.

[HeySeuss]

Actually, pretty sure serial and licensing isn't necessary-ish unless it's an automatic, a sawn-off, greater than .50 caliber or to be sold/transferred.

Which make ye wonder how BATF can determine when an unlicensed homebuild was built in someone else's home, and if it was done by the owner in someone else's home would count as joint-custody? (one could claim they track parts, but you can scratch-build entire guns with an illiterate 19th century French-maid's education and an anvil [lol. RSC mle. 1918])

Pretty sure 89% of the time we just refuse to worry about it until someone stumbles upon an unlicensed munitions-factory in someone's garage/basement.

@Foster

Yeah, I understand. I was just being careful to point out that the BATF is kind of finicky about this right now thanks to 3D printing guns and so forth.

[Foster]

<Snipped quote by Foster>

Yeah, I understand. I was just being careful to point out that the BATF is kind of finicky about this right now thanks to 3D printing guns and so forth.

@HeySeuss

Pretty much it boils down to what the most gun-phobic person in BATF you'll encounter will think.

Surprisingly, the ATF in Waco, Texas is somewhat less overzealous.

[TheMadAsshatter]

Surprisingly, the ATF in Waco, Texas is somewhat less overzealous.

@Foster

This surprises you? This is Texas you're talking about.

But yeah, I heard about that seizure of airsoft guns. Unbelievable how someone can fail to recognize a gun as being fake and, while not impossible, incredibly difficult to make into a functioning firearm. No less difficult than just building one from scratch, especially if we're talking about machine guns specifically. Hell, it's unbelievable that we're supposed to trust these people to make logical decisions as far as firearms laws are concerned, for fuck's sake!

[Foster]

<Snipped quote by Foster>

This surprises you? This is Texas you're talking about.

But yeah, I heard about that seizure of airsoft guns. Unbelievable how someone can fail to recognize a gun as being fake and, while not impossible, incredibly difficult to make into a functioning firearm. No less difficult than just building one from scratch, especially if we're talking about machine guns specifically. Hell, it's unbelievable that we're supposed to trust these people to make logical decisions as far as firearms laws are concerned, for fuck's sake!

@TheMadAsshatter

Apparently it was assumed that the lower receiver (the official "gun" component of an AR15) had close enough tolerances to qualify as an 80% finished receiver or better. Albeit with really shit quality-materials.
-Also, being an imported "non-compliance" part.

It would also be missing pretty much all the components necessary to actually DO anything.

Which is like saying that a 2x4 is a gun-stock because you can gouge a place into it for a gun to fit.
-Therefore, blocks of wood are guns because I can turn THAT into a AR15 lower, and handgaurds.

[Mr_pink]

Bang Bang Skeet Skeet

[TheMadAsshatter]

So, I got awesome news. I picked up my two shiny new Izhmash mags today. With any luck, I'll get to test them out sometime this week.
Pic1 (left side)
Pic2 (right side)
Pic3 (Izhmash logo)

I'm also strongly considering finally ditching my current rifle. I'm, like, 90% certain there is something wrong with it, and I'd rather eliminate all possible worry that I've got a potato and just sell it and buy a new one in it's stead.

[TheMadAsshatter]

Reviving this thread with news of FNH making a civilian version of the M249.

[HeySeuss]

I bet it's terribly expensive. I don't see the point of anything belt-fed and semi-auto, personally.

I would like to own a FAL/SLR someday, however. Those look like fun, and apparently recoil very gently, which is a big consideration for a weapon in 7.62x51.