Pathfinder Vampires or 3.5 Monsters

[Omega]

I am thinking of running a campaign, I have two ideas so far both rather high powered campaigns.

The first is Pathfinder where all character will be vampires. The base vampire template is only CR +2 so it is not a major jump though a decent one and if a vampire template with a CR over +2 is used it will cost you levels. I am thinking we will start at level 3 or 4 but is open to change. Pathfinder I am new to but like since it is almost completely open source.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home - Pretty much everything in Pathfinder
Base Vampire Template

The second works as either Pathfinder or 3.5. The basic idea is the same for both and will be familiar to those who have used the Savage Species book. You will pick a monster race, something preferably with a decent CR AND a normal class. All PCs will work with me to develop a levelup scheme so that each level up to your CR you will gain bonuses from your race. A hill giant for example will gain extra STR at a good rate. After you hit your CR you will in effect become an epic version of your previous monster. A demon for example at their CR in levels will have all their normal abilities and each level after will progress as though heading towards becoming a demon lord. This will be rather high powered since you in effect gain 2 levels every level.

The general idea for the world for the monster campaign is something akin to planescape with many interconnected planes being used. Magic will be VERY common due to the nature of the world and high power level of the campaign.

[evilpooka]

I'm definitely interested in trying this. I really like the concept of CR-monster leveling bonus with a normal class. I love playing monsters, but I hated taking monster class levels in D&D since my character was usually weaker (hit die wise) than everyone else. Pathfinder made playing monsters, or monster-like characters, a lot easier with their race builder--which is (surprisingly) balanced. Pathfinder is a great system; it fixed a lot of the problems in 3.5, and it's pretty easy to understand. And as a bonus, it's not as clunky as 3.5 in later levels.

[Omega]

evilpooka said
I'm definitely interested in trying this. I really like the concept of CR-monster leveling bonus with a normal class. I love playing monsters, but I hated taking monster class levels in D&D since my character was usually weaker (hit die wise) than everyone else. Pathfinder made playing monsters, or monster-like characters, a lot easier with their race builder--which is (surprisingly) balanced. Pathfinder is a great system; it fixed a lot of the problems in 3.5, and it's pretty easy to understand. And as a bonus, it's not as clunky as 3.5 in later levels.

Cool, so I take it you would prefer Pathfinder then and the 2nd campaign?

[evilpooka]

Omega said
Cool, so I take it you would prefer Pathfinder then and the 2nd campaign?

Well, you said that the second idea could work with Pathfinder or 3.5. Pathfinder allows you to build any monster you want, which is nice--since they don't have as many books as 3.5. The race builder also allows you to create levels where you gain a monster ability periodically with your class features. Pathfinder might be the better system for the type of campaign you're thinking of.

Anywho. I'd be fine with both systems. I have all the 3.5 books. :D And there are a few monsters I've been craving to play, but the CRs are so high that I'd be leveling as a monster with one or two hit dice for 5 levels. :( I end up being very squishy with some nifty abilities, which works sometimes but not always. I always play a monster when I can. And either of these campaigns will allow me to do so. ^^ I will be happy with whichever system you choose to run.

Likewise, if you just want to compare systems, I'd be happy to discuss with you. I have played a looooooot of different systems. :) I love my tabletop games. My tabletop games just are always on hold during the summer, because my gaming group does things during the summer. Shock. Lol. I'm here to feed my roleplay addiction.

[Omega]

Awesome, I have dipped into a lot of systems but honestly I have really only played 3.5 a decent bit sadly because I love so many other systems. Like the crit tables from 40k, the character creation from battletech, the feel of exalted. I just wish I had people to play with IRL or more often ran across campaigns that work with my schedule online.

Anyway, Evilpooka if you want we can start taking some monsters you are looking into and work out their level progression while we wait to see if others join.

[BhanSidhe]

I noticed this thread and I would also be interested in playing. I like the open creation workings of Pathfinder but, like yourself, I have not played Pathfinder very much while I have played a lot of 3.5. So I would be happy to play either version of your game. With the Pathfinder version I would modify the basic template to be a variant vampire, for example one that can walk in the daylight but instead of feeding on blood would need to drain the soul of magic users like an oriental vampire. With the monster campaign I am not sure what I would be yet but probably a spell caster of some sort, probably mixed with a construct or undead type of monster.

[Omega]

Very cool BhanSidhe, vampires seem to have decent modularity and variants so that should be easy to work out.

if you want undead and caster I am sure you can find something or I can help you find something in the 3.5 books like Libris Mortis.

[resiak verdungert]

I like the idea of the second campaign more and i am more familiar with the pathfinder system

[evilpooka]

Omega said
Anyway, Evilpooka if you want we can start taking some monsters you are looking into and work out their level progression while we wait to see if others join.

Sounds like we have a few players interested. :D Yay.

I have started to look over monsters in 3.5. I have about a dozen monsters I really like. I will try to narrow it down a little more. Just of curiosity--just because every other GM ever has said no--can I play a mind flayer? :3

[Omega]

evilpooka said
Sounds like we have a few players interested. :D Yay.I have started to look over monsters in 3.5. I have about a dozen monsters I really like. I will try to narrow it down a little more. Just of curiosity--just because every other GM has said no--can I play a mind flayer? :3

Yes, you can be a mind flayer, CR 8 and you will only start with minor spell resistance, like 1 tentacle attack, and telepathy over like 20 feet instead of 100 but over the next 7 levels you will progress all the way up.

[Omega]

Made a quick Mind Flayer class, went with wizard HD and skill numbers. It is up for discussion and moving stuff around naturally but as you can see stacking this with another class will make a rather formidable character.

I do realize that due to not including HD in the overall CR it means you will get very powerful abilities very fast like plane shift at will at level 8. I do not want to utilize HD as well because HD is even worse of a judge than CR.

Mind Flayer
HD: D4
Skills: Int+2

Levels:
1: +2 INT, +2 Wis. +1 natural Armor, 2 tentacles 1d4, Telepathy 10 ft
2: +2 Cha, +2 Con, Psionics (detect thoughts, levitate) Telepathy 20 ft
3: +2 INT. +2 Dex, Mind Blast 1d4 rounds 1/per day (1 target), Telepathy 40 ft,
4: +2 WIs, 3 tentacles 1d4, Improved Grab, Psionics (suggestion), Telepathy 50 ft
5: +2 INT. +2 Cha. +1 Natural Armor, Mind Blast 2d4 rounds, 3/per day (10 foot cone), Telepathy 60 ft
6: +2 Dex, +2 Str, psionics (charm monster), Spell Resistance 15, Telepathy 70 ft,
7: +2 INT, +2 Wis, 4 tentacles 1d4, Mind Blast 3d4 rounds at will (30 foot cone), Telepathy 90 ft
8: +2 Cha. +1 Natural Armor, Extract, Psionics (astral projection, plane shift), Spell Resistance 25, Telepathy 100 ft

[evilpooka]

Omega said
Made a quick Mind Flayer class, went with wizard HD and skill numbers. It is up for discussion and moving stuff around naturally but as you can see stacking this with another class will make a rather formidable character. I do realize that due to not including HD in the overall CR it means you will get very powerful abilities very fast like plane shift at will at level 8. I do not want to utilize HD as well because HD is even worse of a judge than CR.Mind FlayerHD: D4Skills: Int+2Levels:1: +2 INT, +2 Wis. +1 natural Armor, 2 tentacles 1d4, Telepathy 10 ft2: +2 Cha, +2 Con, Psionics (detect thoughts, levitate) Telepathy 20 ft3: +2 INT. +2 Dex, Mind Blast 1d4 rounds 1/per day (1 target), Telepathy 40 ft, 4: +2 WIs, 3 tentacles 1d4, Improved Grab, Psionics (suggestion), Telepathy 50 ft5: +2 INT. +2 Cha. +1 Natural Armor, Mind Blast 2d4 rounds, 3/per day (10 foot cone), Telepathy 60 ft6: +2 Dex, +2 Str, psionics (charm monster), Spell Resistance 15, Telepathy 70 ft, 7: +2 INT, +2 Wis, 4 tentacles 1d4, Mind Blast 3d4 rounds at will (30 foot cone), Telepathy 90 ft8: +2 Cha. +1 Natural Armor, Extract, Psionics (astral projection, plane shift), Spell Resistance 25, Telepathy 100 ft

This is pretty awesome. :D Thanks so much for building this for me and for the first opportunity to play a mind flayer. :) I'm still looking over some of the other monster manuals, just in case I see something that I want to play more. But, I will let you know my decision soon. Thanks again.

[BhanSidhe]

Looking at the books and as it appears that we will already have an arcane caster I have decided to be the party rogue. I am currently drawn towards being a Zern (MM 4 page 195) adding the template Terror Vampire (Dragon magazine issue 348 page 46) which you can read all about by following this link Here . Alternatly I have also been considering the Etherial Doppleganger (MM 2 page 94). I have a leaning towards the Vamperic Zern personally both because of the undead with new fun tricks and the Zern mentality...In my case I would believe that I am on my way to becoming the perfect life form that my race seeks and would adventure for money and resources to continue my experiments. Most likely I would take a variant type of rogue as opposed to the basic one from the players handbook.

[Omega]

I had not considered templates but they do add something neat. Basically if you take a template at level 1 like BhanSidhe may be doing I will use them similar to bloodlnes in Unearthed Arcana except they are option. After a certain level you can take a level in your template.

I work this weekend but hopefully tomorrow and probably Sunday I can knock out a Zern since you said you are leaning that way.

[evilpooka]

Okay. I've gone through all of the monster manuals. The only other reason I'm kinda tempted by is the Spell Weaver, but I have no idea when I'll get an opportunity again to play a Mind Flayer... Sooo. :D Mind Flayer it is. And, yeah--a wizard. It just makes so much sense. I might do a prestige class, but I'm still looking into that.

[evilpooka]

resiak verdungert said
I like the idea of the second campaign more and i am more familiar with the pathfinder system

What kind of monster would you be interested in playing? :D?

[resiak verdungert]

probably a naga of some sort proferably gaurdian or water

[evilpooka]

Nice. Naga are really cool. Were you thinking the standard naga from the Monsters Manual or the a Yuan Ti variant? Or something different?

[Omega]

I started working on the Zern but I am kinda drained from work, I have all the abilities, and benefits of the class I just need to order them up into 6 levels.

Zern
HD: Tough to call what it is comparable too, may go with D8 because the shapeshifting is similar to druid but...
Skills: Again, tough to say what class it is most like, plus I will probably remove racial class skills.

STR +6, Dex +6, Con +4, Int +4, Wis +2
Darkvision 60ft
6 Natural AC
Fast healing 5
Spell Resistance 18
Warping Energy, 1d6 per 2 HD + Int modifier (This is an amazing ability, holy crap)
Shifting Guise
Transmutation affinity
Craft (Flesh Sculpting)
Adaptive Defenses
Malleable form (Again really good, this will come in at like level 6)

[resiak verdungert]

I had forgotten about the Yuan Ti variant. I think i like that option more especially the abomination part. having arms helps a lot.