[OOC] Myriad Reality

[Host]

Hey, David, what would you suggest as a follow-up to FT? Preferably something with magic/fantasy elements.

@Mammalia

Sword Art Online.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Because you think it's a computer. Get your deus ex out of here because it doesn't work.

That's an issue. Regardless, you can't assume that you can just beat anything.

@Dynamics

It literally doesn't matter. And there's not really any resource David could get that wouldn't be a computer of some sort. It works perfectly you're just ignoring it.

Dunno what that first part is about but yeah I kinda can. David is like 30 fucking years old, and a standard human. There is no way he's come up with something Dark hadn't planned for. I dunno if you're just not thinking through this or if you're purposefully ignoring it or I'm not getting across the time involved here or what but there are maybe three things so far that Dark wouldn't have already predicted and prepared for since his death.

[DarkwolfX37]

Hey, David, what would you suggest as a follow-up to FT? Preferably something with magic/fantasy elements.

@Mammalia

Madoka Magica, Lyrcal Nanoha, FMA/FMAB, Rave Master if you want a better version of FT, KLK, Bible Black, (THAT ONE'S A JOKE DON'T EVEN LOOK INTO IT IT WOULD SCAR YOU FOR LIFE) Death Note, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Raildex, NGEva, G Gundam, Code Geass, Bleach's manga, AoT's manga, Cage of Eden's manga, Zoids, Disgaea's got an anime though I don't know the quality, .hack if you want a well-done trapped-in-a-game anime, though Sign isn't all that great (better than SAO unless you just want pretty animation more than any other factors combined) and Liminality you might not be able to follow if you haven't played the first four games (I dunno haven't seen it yet cause I'm still playing them) and I'd avoid the movie since it's CG, even though it's good, but the others would work, or Log Horizon is another good trapped-in-a-game series, Deadman Wonderland but it's really bloody and the anime ends really early on, Digimon Tamers is good but it suffers from animation roughness since it was made on a really short timelimit and there's a scene that has the whole "time is slowed down but someone talks normally so they say like 5 paragraphs in what is supposed to be half a second" thing, if you don't mind lack of magic/fantasy then Lucky Star is good but you'd get the most out of it if you watch Haruhi first, Dog Days seems good but I can't be sure since I haven't seen it yet, another good non fantasy/magic one is K-On, Shaman King is really good but the anime sucks so read the manga if you do, Shakugan no Shana looks amazing but I haven't watched it yet, and of course Gurren Lagann is always a good choice.
Definitely stay off SAO unless you're hammered, (assuming the only way that would happen is drinking wine to celebrate something and just losing track of how much you've had) you're too much of a literary person to be able to get over it's flaws, though if you watch the abridged (which is fucking amazing) then that might get you to watch the actual series. I'd also say stay off Heaven's Lost Property and you should avoid Motto To Love like the plague, since the former is pervy humor and the latter is pervy humor distilled into it's raw essence in it's purest form, so just in case you come across those somehow.

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Dynamics>

It literally doesn't matter. And there's not really any resource David could get that wouldn't be a computer of some sort. It works perfectly you're just ignoring it.

Dunno what that first part is about but yeah I kinda can. David is like 30 fucking years old, and a standard human. There is no way he's come up with something Dark hadn't planned for. I dunno if you're just not thinking through this or if you're purposefully ignoring it or I'm not getting across the time involved here or what but there are maybe three things so far that Dark wouldn't have already predicted and prepared for since his death.

@DarkwolfX37

So now you're limiting me to "You can only use a computer and nothing else." You assume that you can just beat everything because you want to, but not everything can be bruteforced.

Thirty? Try seventeen. And aside from the fact that Dark never knew anything about PaMDA, no amount of planning changes how it works. In fact, that generally makes it worse.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

So now you're limiting me to "You can only use a computer and nothing else." You assume that you can just beat everything because you want to, but not everything can be bruteforced.

Thirty? Try seventeen. And aside from the fact that Dark never knew anything about PaMDA, no amount of planning changes how it works. In fact, that generally makes it worse.

@Host

No I'm saying that logically you should be limited to a computer or something similar enough that it may as well be one.

I was way overestimating because I didn't want to make your chances even lower.
For all either of us know he knew it perfectly. The only way he wouldn't is pretty much if David made it from scratch, which is also very close to impossible since not even Tier Five was able to do that, unless you retconned it at some point and I just didn't see it or forgot it.
There's also the issue that it's only imminently logical method of working is Code manipulation which Dark had perfected. :/
So I'm not seeing even a single particle of chance that you'd last past five programs.

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

No I'm saying that logically you should be limited to a computer or something similar enough that it may as well be one.

I was way overestimating because I didn't want to make your chances even lower.
For all either of us know he knew it perfectly. The only way he wouldn't is pretty much if David made it from scratch, which is also very close to impossible since not even Tier Five was able to do that, unless you retconned it at some point and I just didn't see it or forgot it.
There's also the issue that it's only imminently logical method of working is Code manipulation which Dark had perfected. :/
So I'm not seeing even a single particle of chance that you'd last past five programs.

@DarkwolfX37

Why? It's another resource.

David did make it from scratch. Tier Five never made it because there's literally no use case other than what he's using it for.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Why? It's another resource.

David did make it from scratch. Tier Five never made it because there's literally no use case other than what he's using it for.

@Host

Because of the 17 years, at least 4 of them weren't usable for anything, and more likely 7 of them weren't. David has spent most of his life in his home dimension or at least on various earths. There's not really any dimension control resources possible from that, and if it's from the Scale buffer then it wouldn't really be able to alter dimensions because the Scale and Buffer don't have dimensions. I mean, it could possibly do so, but it's less than 50% that anyone would be able to come up with a good enough reason, even if we all worked together to think it up.

Again, the only way it could work is directly manipulating Code somehow, likely very specific parts. Tier Five had/has a system to do that, but it wouldn't really lend itself to making a new one, sort of like trying to use Java to write a new programming language that isn't just a condensed/alternate Java.
Saying that Tier Five couldn't use a defense system like that doesn't make any sense. A homebase or meeting place any number of other things would make it useful.

Even if David were just like 2000 and had spent 1000 years of work alongside Myth and Z, I could kind of see that. He's brilliant enough to have a reasonable chance for that. But 10-13 years, most of which were in a dimension where time moved relatively slowly, meaning less work is possible relative to other dimensions, it just doesn't make any sense on paper, and I don't see any possible way to explain it. At least with Dark it's an Edison situation, find an infinite number of ways to do something incorrectly and a tenth as many ways to do what was intended, plus going around to countless other universes simultaneously to learn what other things knew/had recorded/etc. David's interacted with, what, 20 other geniuses? The input you've got just doesn't calculate to the output. Hell, even just getting broken into now and then using that to make it into what it currently is would make sense, but it just doesn't compute right now.

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

Because of the 17 years, at least 4 of them weren't usable for anything, and more likely 7 of them weren't. David has spent most of his life in his home dimension or at least on various earths. There's not really any dimension control resources possible from that, and if it's from the Scale buffer then it wouldn't really be able to alter dimensions because the Scale and Buffer don't have dimensions. I mean, it could possibly do so, but it's less than 50% that anyone would be able to come up with a good enough reason, even if we all worked together to think it up.

Again, the only way it could work is directly manipulating Code somehow, likely very specific parts. Tier Five had/has a system to do that, but it wouldn't really lend itself to making a new one, sort of like trying to use Java to write a new programming language that isn't just a condensed/alternate Java.
Saying that Tier Five couldn't use a defense system like that doesn't make any sense. A homebase or meeting place any number of other things would make it useful.

Even if David were just like 2000 and had spent 1000 years of work alongside Myth and Z, I could kind of see that. He's brilliant enough to have a reasonable chance for that. But 10-13 years, most of which were in a dimension where time moved relatively slowly, meaning less work is possible relative to other dimensions, it just doesn't make any sense on paper, and I don't see any possible way to explain it. At least with Dark it's an Edison situation, find an infinite number of ways to do something incorrectly and a tenth as many ways to do what was intended, plus going around to countless other universes simultaneously to learn what other things knew/had recorded/etc. David's interacted with, what, 20 other geniuses? The input you've got just doesn't calculate to the output. Hell, even just getting broken into now and then using that to make it into what it currently is would make sense, but it just doesn't compute right now.

@DarkwolfX37

You literally don't know what you're dealing with. You don't know how it works and you don't know what it does. Stop trying to use ignorance as an argument.

I didn't say they couldn't. They didn't because they don't have a use-case. It's also not a security system.

Not when the strongest efforts were put into defending the planet, utilizing a system that covers its own holes. And as I said before, nothing ever claimed it to be the most technologically advanced solution, just a effective one.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

You literally don't know what you're dealing with. You don't know how it works and you don't know what it does. Stop trying to use ignorance as an argument.

I didn't say they couldn't. They didn't because they don't have a use-case. It's also not a security system.

Not when the strongest efforts were put into defending the planet, utilizing a system that covers its own holes. And as I said before, nothing ever claimed it to be the most technologically advanced solution, just a effective one.

@Host

How are you not realizing that I don't have to in order for one of my characters to? You've done it before too.

I've never said that it's more technologically advanced. This is the third or fourth time I've had to say that. The strongest efforts over ten years does not, is not, and cannot be something that trillions of years of equally strong effort would not have found ways around. You're also not even defending the planet, you're defending the universe, which in much, much more difficult to create. You're trying to say that 2 is better than 15 because it's more effective in some impossible nebulous way.

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

How are you not realizing that I don't have to in order for one of my characters to? You've done it before too.

I've never said that it's more technologically advanced. This is the third or fourth time I've had to say that. The strongest efforts over ten years does not, is not, and cannot be something that trillions of years of equally strong effort would not have found ways around. You're also not even defending the planet, you're defending the universe, which in much, much more difficult to create. You're trying to say that 2 is better than 15 because it's more effective in some impossible nebulous way.

@DarkwolfX37

Because you have to know in order for your explanations to work. Your characters probably don't know either. Right now, you're using a superiority argument that doesn't hold water.

Yet you're using the advancement argument.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Because you have to know in order for your explanations to work. Your characters probably don't know either. Right now, you're using a superiority argument that doesn't hold water.

Yet you're using the advancement argument.

@Host

They don't. One might but I'm not using them. Again, Dark was the one who would know. But he would have prepared for anything he knew of before he died. And not really, the explanations are pretty impossible to stop. Fusing a Source with it's Paths doesn't really have a counter. Because I'm in a situation where I know less than my characters, so it's hard to fill up holes. Again, you've done it before, you should know this.

Knowledge advancement, not tech advancement. There is a HUGE difference.

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

They don't. One might but I'm not using them. Again, Dark was the one who would know. But he would have prepared for anything he knew of before he died. And not really, the explanations are pretty impossible to stop. Fusing a Source with it's Paths doesn't really have a counter. Because I'm in a situation where I know less than my characters, so it's hard to fill up holes. Again, you've done it before, you should know this.

Knowledge advancement, not tech advancement. There is a HUGE difference.

@DarkwolfX37

Except this was made what it is after Dark died.

Either way, the point isn't changed.

[DarkwolfX37]

I'm gonna write a book called "Observations on Dog Fucking" and it's going to be entirely unrelated with the title.
This is the first time they've played a whole video without being able to tell if it was a troll or not.
Now that you're back whizz I gave you a big list of stuff.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Except this was made what it is after Dark died.

Either way, the point isn't changed.

@Host

Again, David's a regular human bar Aspects. Regardless of intelligence he hasn't had time to not have his things predicted by Dark before he died.

Yeah actually it is. If you know the entirety of the Hunger Games series and I know just the first book, you can predict my various reactions on the second book. That's what I'm saying. What you were saying is that if we both know only the first book, but you read it on a tablet and I read it via a physical book, neither of us would have an advantage. You were right, but it's not relevant and completely ignores the entire side of the argument that comes from me because it's stuck on a false concept.

[Mammalia]

I'm gonna write a book called "Observations on Dog Fucking" and it's going to be entirely unrelated with the title.
This is the first time they've played a whole video without being able to tell if it was a troll or not.
Now that you're back whizz I gave you a big list of stuff.

@DarkwolfX37

List of stuff?

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

Again, David's a regular human bar Aspects. Regardless of intelligence he hasn't had time to not have his things predicted by Dark before he died.

Yeah actually it is. If you know the entirety of the Hunger Games series and I know just the first book, you can predict my various reactions on the second book. That's what I'm saying. What you were saying is that if we both know only the first book, but you read it on a tablet and I read it via a physical book, neither of us would have an advantage. You were right, but it's not relevant and completely ignores the entire side of the argument that comes from me because it's stuck on a false concept.

@DarkwolfX37

Except Dark didn't know him well enough. Your argument is 100% assumption.

No, the argument is instead that even if you have a plasma gun or a nuke, if I hit you in the temple really hard with a rock, you're going to die. But let's say this is a really strange rock that you have to put together that has no practical purpose, other than hitting people in the head. It's still a rock, technologically inferior, something you can plan for, etc. But unless you know exactly how someone's going to throw it and where it'll be (in which case you can still get hit), your best bet it to run and hope you don't get hit.

[Intrepid]

*Checks in to see what's up*
*Verbal conflict*
*Scratches head and goes back to working on my project that is due in two days*

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

List of stuff?

@Mammalia

Anime.

[Host]

*Checks in to see what's up*
*Verbal conflict*
*Scratches head and goes back to working on my project that is due in two days*

@Intrepid

Mmmm.

[DarkwolfX37]

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Except Dark didn't know him well enough. Your argument is 100% assumption.

No, the argument is instead that even if you have a plasma gun or a nuke, if I hit you in the temple really hard with a rock, you're going to die. But let's say this is a really strange rock that you have to put together that has no practical purpose, other than hitting people in the head. It's still a rock, technologically inferior, something you can plan for, etc. But unless you know exactly how someone's going to throw it and where it'll be (in which case you can still get hit), your best bet it to run and hope you don't get hit.

@Host

Did you not catch how I specified my reasoning. He's a regular human, which are incredibly predictable. You're also ignoring the time frame again, actually, you're just ignoring it constantly, and the very likely part about Dark either being able to spy on him and/or steal knowledge from anyone working for him he came across.
It's 100% probability. Monkeys and typewriters will eventually write the works of Shakespeare, countless Darks with countless time will have already done 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of all the things Dynamo will ever do.

Your analogy is immeadiately wrong with that because it's not that you're hitting me with a rock, it's that you're hiding behind a boulder when a nuke hits. And it's still void because I've never been arguing a tech difference aside from for the specifics of why David's thing couldn't have come about anyway, I've been arguing that Dark would already know how it's made, how it works, countless ways to improve it, and countless ways to get past it, which he would have prepared for and armed Mio with.
The thing is that Dark's done enough to be able to let the rock hit him and have it hit where he wants, so that it shatters upon contact with him. If we're going to do the tech side of why this isn't logically possible, you're basically saying that a fist sized rock blocked a nuke, destroyed the plane that carried it, blocked an antimatter explosion, survived a neutron star being dropped on it, and then hit someone on the other side of the milky way all at the same time. It's like saying that you're pouring water in a bowl and that the water caused all of the quantum particles to behave in the exact way that it takes to turn the bowl into a cat, when all you actually did is carry a dog into a room and spill root beer. It doesn't work. The analogy doesn't work either, but I'm bored and need something to keep from blehing.