[OOC] Myriad Reality

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
I intend to maintain full contact, visit for family dinners, and eventually return to my roots and move back to this little old town just to be here. They won't change their beliefs on how to parent me, but once I hit college, my decisions are my decisions. They cannot control my life once I hit that point, and I am free to do as I please. Though if they try to help me, I will respect their advice, interpret it myself, and that's it.

So what changes when you do that that isn't the case already? Is it legality? The ability to fight back? The thought that you'll be able to sustain yourself?

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
So what changes when you do that that isn't the case already? Is it legality? The ability to fight back? The thought that you'll be able to sustain yourself?

His judgement prevails. That's the difference.

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
So what changes when you do that that isn't the case already? Is it legality? The ability to fight back? The thought that you'll be able to sustain yourself?

My own beliefs and personality determine this. I am the child of my parents, and will always be. But everyone becomes an adult at some point, and they must learn to live on their own. That is not only my own belief, but my father's as well. One does not determine when they are ready themselves, that is something that comes with time.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
I chose knowledge over ignorance, but I am still joyful. You, however, choose the life you lead. And that is why your interpretation of the Bible will always be wrong.

It's more that I interpret it more literally than you do despite you being a literalist. Or it might be that I actually acknowledge the contradictions. Or maybe it's because I don't deny the reality around me when it goes against a book. Or maybe it's because I'm actually skeptical instead of blindly believing it and trying to cut other things into the shapes that fit the holes in the book. Or perhaps it's because I actually do care for science and philosophy instead of claiming to while at the same time fighting against them.
There's a lot of reasons why my interpretation is wrong in the eyes of followers. Generally because I stand in their massive blind spot.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
It's more that I interpret it more literally than you do despite you being a literalist. Or it might be that I actually acknowledge the contradictions. Or maybe it's because I don't deny the reality around me when it goes against a book. Or maybe it's because I'm actually skeptical instead of blindly believing it and trying to cut other things into the shapes that fit the holes in the book. Or perhaps it's because I actually do care for science and philosophy instead of claiming to while at the same time fighting against them.There's a lot of reasons why my interpretation is wrong in the eyes of followers. Generally because I stand in their massive blind spot.

Or maybe because you're fooled. Because you're deceived. Because you're wrong.

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
My own beliefs and personality determine this. I am the child of my parents, and will always be. But everyone becomes an adult at some point, and they must learn to live on their own. That is not only my own belief, but my father's as well. One does not determine when they are ready themselves, that is something that comes with time.

Recognizing that in itself qualifies you as one.
If that's the case then there have been very few adults to ever live on this planet.

Pick your favorite.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
Or maybe because you're fooled. Because you're deceived. Because you're wrong.

Fooled by who? Deceived by the devil? Wrong because you don't agree?
I can't be fooled by myself. I can't be deceived by a talking invisible rock that exists in a different galaxy. I can't be wrong if nobody's right.

You're being fooled by israelites. You're being deceived by your priest. You're wrong because you're one of a huge number of sects.
You were never in contact with one. They believe every word. You can't be wrong when nobody's right.

Pick your fav.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
Fooled by who? Deceived by the devil? Wrong because you don't agree?I can't be fooled by myself. I can't be deceived by a talking invisible rock that exists in a different galaxy. I can't be wrong if nobody's right.You're being fooled by israelites. You're being deceived by your priest. You're wrong because you're one of a huge number of sects.You were never in contact with one. They believe every word. You can't be wrong when nobody's right.Pick your fav.

You can fool yourself, but you have been fooled by Satan, and by the world. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant in the truth of something, but when you attempt to make him act against his own beliefs, and then press yours, you're just as bad, if not worse than Christians who shove it down your throat.

[DarkwolfX37]

When you've read through every page of your book, have read every other holy text of every other religion, when you've compared each book of the bible with each of the others, when you've compared each book of your version of the bible with it's equivalent in three other versions, when you've compared each book with itself in the Torah and itself in the Quran, and when you've stopped deny the whole of each branch of science, THEN you have the right to claim that I'm wrong. Because until then, what you're doing is no different than a lion telling a mouse it's wrong for not having a mane.

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
Recognizing that in itself qualifies you as one.If that's the case then there have been very few adults to ever live on this planet.Pick your favorite.

I am an adult in that respect alone, but this is not the only prerequisite for adulthood. I believe I would do an okay job on my own, and I am more mature than most my age, but in the end, I am still only a kid. Not a child, but a kid.
And to your second point, that is because of societal corruption. Other, "cooler", opinions get into one's mind and convince them that the wrong action is the best action. Through correct parenting, yes parenting, of all things, more people would be classified as adults, by my definition.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
You can fool yourself, but you have been fooled by Satan, and by the world. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant in the truth of something, but when you attempt to make him act against his own beliefs, and then press yours, you're just as bad, if not worse than Christians who shove it down your throat.

I'm attempting to change his beliefs. In which direction, I really couldn't care less. And besides, I freely admit that I'm a hypocrite, ironically enough, and I press not being subservient or deaf to your own instincts just as strongly as you press your own beliefs to yourself.
I'm not fooled by satan or lucifer or anyone else. I just happen to agree with the notion that some jealous, murderous, lying, power hungry schoolyard bully who's son happened to turn out good by rebelling against everything that his dad stood for doesn't deserve praise or love, and certainly not blind obedience.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
When you've read through every page of your book, have read every other holy text of every other religion, when you've compared each book of the bible with each of the others, when you've compared each book of your version of the bible with it's equivalent in three other versions, when you've compared each book with itself in the Torah and itself in the Quran, and when you've stopped deny the whole of each branch of science, THEN you have the right to claim that I'm wrong. Because until then, what you're doing is no different than a lion telling a mouse it's wrong for not having a mane.

The same applies to you then, and you have no right to claim I'm wrong. However, I don't need to read the others to know the truth. It's as if I knew the sky was blue and you wanted me to read a new theory of how it was green. Although, your statement of science is totally incorrect, and I'm sorry that you think that way. It's just not right.

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
I am an adult in that respect alone, but this is not the only prerequisite for adulthood. I believe I would do an okay job on my own, and I am more mature than most my age, but in the end, I am still only a kid. Not a child, but a kid.And to your second point, that is because of societal corruption. Other, "cooler", opinions get into one's mind and convince them that the wrong action is the best action. Through correct parenting, yes parenting, of all things, more people would be classified as adults, by my definition.

You didn't see what I was getting at. If being an adult means living on their own, without others' influence or help, then there has not been a single adult since before humans began forming tribes.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
I'm attempting to change his beliefs. In which direction, I really couldn't care less. And besides, I freely admit that I'm a hypocrite, ironically enough, and I press not being subservient or deaf to your own instincts just as strongly as you press your own beliefs to yourself. I'm not fooled by satan or lucifer or anyone else. I just happen to agree with the notion that some jealous, murderous, lying, power hungry schoolyard bully who's son happened to turn out good by rebelling against everything that his dad stood for doesn't deserve praise or love, and certainly not blind obedience.

Then you are most certainly fooled. Actual, the Bible takes it a step further. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
You didn't see what I was getting at. If being an adult means living on their own, without others' influence or help, then there has not been a single adult since before humans began forming tribes.

Without influence or help, no one would do well. That's just a fact. Humans are not a species that can live in isolation from each other. Living on your own and never receiving guidance or help are two different things. I never even said anything about not having influence or aid from anyone, I'm merely talking about having the right to make my own decisions.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
The same applies to you then, and you have no right to claim I'm wrong. However, I don't need to read the others to know the truth. It's as if I knew the sky was blue and you wanted me to read a new theory of how it was green. Although, your statement of science is totally incorrect, and I'm sorry that you think that way. It's just not right.

Considering that you thought that Ken Ham won, that you honestly believe that "god" is a better answer than "I don't know", it is with absolute certainty that one could say that you don't care about actual science, you only care about this false idea that you have in your head. Because without the ability to admit "I don't know", science does not exist. That very statement is the one thing upon which all else hinges in terms of science.
On the other hand, philosophy hinges on the statement "I don't believe (idea)", which is something you have never once said in regards to what you place yourself upon. If you don't find a philosophy of self, then you do not have a platform to see the world with which would allow you to truly find a philosophy of anything else.

Your analogy is also wrong. You're claiming that a crow is a raven. It may be easy to mistake, and you may be able to create an argument for your case for a short while, but it's not long until your claim begins to fall apart. You may even be able to convince people who don't have any prior knowledge. But at some point you're not going to be able to keep saying it.

As for what I'm doing, I'm tossing rocks into a river in the hopes that I'll kill a shark. There are move effective ways, but this does the least damage to the environment and ecosystem.

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
Without influence or help, no one would do well. That's just a fact. Humans are not a species that can live in isolation from each other. Living on your own and never receiving guidance or help are two different things. I never even said anything about not having influence or aid from anyone, I'm merely talking about having the right to make my own decisions.

Living by yourself and living on your own are two different things. You don't just become something different than you've always been. You can only choose to change yourself, and what you are will follow if your will to change is strong enough. If you've ever come to the conclusion that you should not be dismissed just because you're younger than someone else, then you already know that on some level.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
Considering that you thought that Ken Ham won, that you honestly believe that "god" is a better answer than "I don't know", it is with absolute certainty that one could say that you don't care about actual science, you only care about this false idea that you have in your head. Because without the ability to admit "I don't know", science does not exist. That very statement is the one thing upon which all else hinges in terms of science. On the other hand, philosophy hinges on the statement "I don't believe (idea)", which is something you have never once said in regards to what you place yourself upon. If you don't find a philosophy of self, then you do not have a platform to see the world with which would allow you to truly find a philosophy of anything else.Your analogy is also wrong. You're claiming that a crow is a raven. It may be easy to mistake, and you may be able to create an argument for your case for a short while, but it's not long until your claim begins to fall apart. You may even be able to convince people who don't have any prior knowledge. But at some point you're not going to be able to keep saying it. As for what I'm doing, I'm tossing rocks into a river in the hopes that I'll kill a shark. There are move effective ways, but this does the least damage to the environment and ecosystem.

Dark, I can't do this anymore. Your words hurt, because I see how far you are from the light, from love, and from joy. From this point on, regardless of what you say about my God or me, I'm not going to humor you with the response, because you're a fool, one who seems beyond the point of saving. It's not for me to judge, but further debate with you is utterly pointless. I'll stick to the atheists that actually use valid arguments when debating me, instead of insults and "I'm right you're wrong" arguments (although I do see that a lot). I can't do it anymore, and I quit. So congratulations, you whittled me down beyond my point of arguing. However, you'll never pull me below my point of prayer. I've prayed for you every night for months, and will continue to regardless.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
Then you are most certainly fooled. Actual, the Bible takes it a step further. "The says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"

And knowledge is what caused humans to go away from god.
You'd be surprised how many examples could be used to call you a complete idiot using your own bible. I'd bet that I've called you an idiot in the past due to related issues, but I never intended to call you one due to your theism alone. Remember, I'm a lucifer, not a satan. I'd rather have you realize the flaws and come up with ways to fix them than have you realize them and throw the whole away entirely.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
And knowledge is what caused humans to go away from god. You'd be surprised how many examples could be used to call you a complete idiot using your own bible. I'd bet that I've called you an idiot in the past due to related issues, but I never intended to call you one due to your theism alone. Remember, I'm a lucifer, not a satan. I'd rather have you realize the flaws and come up with ways to fix them than have you realize them and throw the whole away entirely.

Although, one last thing. Lucifer was never a being, it was a title. In Latin, it means "Light Bringer." Satan has always had this title.