[OOC] Myriad Reality

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
My parents classify them as two separate things. And frankly, lying is 100 times worse with them than simply not telling them anything. If they straight up ask me though, and I refuse to answer, then I get into the same amount of trouble as lying would.

Then I refer you to the other option. Tell them in careful detail of how exactly they can remove their head from their ass. Or straight up ignore what they say. You've got the right to do that.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
" Two other cases of lying were when Abraham, out of fear, told the king of Egypt that Sarah was his sister and not his wife (Gen. 12:11-20, 20:1-12), and later Isaac did the same thing with Rebecca (Gen. 26:7). Some again say that Sarah was Abraham’s half cousin so he was technically correct. Once again, the intention was to mislead. What was interesting in both these cases is that God had to intervene to bail them out. "Defending a lie is a lie David. On a side note, the devil is a murder? He killed 10 people throughout the bible. God killed millions. You cannot claim absolute morals and then say that immoral acts are moral just because someone in power did it.

Uuuggghhhhh. First of all, we've been through the demeaning thing. Second, God didn't lie in either of those cases; the Old Testament is a history book full of sin. It tells us what they did, not what we should do. David cheated with a woman and killed her husband, and suffered for it. Next, God did not murder them, but he sent things to destroy them because 100% of humanity was evil. Lastly, the devil has killed more indirectly. Just think about it instead of bringing these to me when you know my answer.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
Then I refer you to the other option. Tell them in careful detail of how exactly they can remove their head from their ass. Or straight up ignore what they say. You've got the right to do that.

He owes them respect. Paul said he first commandment with promise is to obey your parents.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
Uuuggghhhhh. First of all, we've been through the demeaning thing. Second, God didn't lie in either of those cases; the Old Testament is a history book full of sin. It tells us what they did, not what we should do. David cheated with a woman and killed her husband, and suffered for it. Next, God did not murder them, but he sent things to destroy them because 100% of humanity was evil. Lastly, the devil has killed more indirectly. Just think about it instead of bringing these to me when you know my answer.

So you're saying that god did necessary evil?

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
He owes them respect. Paul said he first commandment with promise is to obey your parents.

You can respect someone without doing what they say. That's not an issue of respect, it's an issue of fear and obedience. I know that the bible says they're the same thing, but they fucking aren't.

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
Then I refer you to the other option. Tell them in careful detail of how exactly they can remove their head from their ass. Or straight up ignore what they say. You've got the right to do that.

Legit, I could never do the first. Out of respect. As much as I hate how they treat me at points, that doesn't change how much I love them. Ignoring them is a silent way of saying no to virtually everything, and that would be a foolish way for me to go about this. I've got two years till college, I can live to suffer for a little bit longer, if it's necessary.

[DarkwolfX37]

" Other scriptures

“But there are clearly scriptures in the Bible that condemn lying”, one may protest. Let’s look at a few of them.

The 9th commandment
The first one is the 9th commandment, “Thou shall not lie.” I think quoting the scripture wrongly is a bigger sin than lying. What Exodus 20:16 and Deuteronomy 5:20 actually say is “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.” That makes a huge difference, because now it’s not talking about lying in general but a very specific form of lying. Bringing a false accusation against someone is an affront to the justice of God. So it is very clear that God hates this kind of lying. This thought is repeated over and over in the book of Proverbs. That book has many references to lying but many of them are all in the context of lying against one’s brother or neighbor to accuse them wrongfully.

Proverbs - Lying tongue, lying lips
In Proverbs 6:16-19, God lists 7 things that he hates: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart devising wicked plans, feet swift to run to evil, a false witness speaking lies, and one who sows discord.
The lying tongue is clearly distinct from the false witness that speaks lies, so it is clearly not the same thing as bearing false witness. So what then is this lying tongue? Most scriptures in Proverbs don't really have a context like some other books of the bible, however there are ideas which are repeated in different parts of the book for emphasis and clarity. The expressions "lying tongue" or "lying lips" are repeated elsewhere in the book of Proverbs (See Proverbs 10:18; 12:19,22; 17:7; 21:6; 26:28). The most notable one is Proverbs 21:6 which speaks of getting treasures via a lying tongue. The emphasis seems to be on using dishonest means of getting ahead financially or otherwise. So again it's not all types of lying, but a very specific form that God detests.

Revelation 21:8 - All liars have their part in hell
The next scripture which condemns lying is Rev 21:8 which states that all liars have their part in the lake of fire. If this verse if read in isolation it definitely gives the impression that it is referring to all kinds of liars. But it actually isn’t. All of those sins mentioned in that verse refer to some specific set of events taking place during the tribulation, after all the context is set at the end of the tribulation period. The lying in this context refers to preaching and teaching a lie (cf. 1 Tim. 4:1, 2). It refers to propagating false doctrine. There would be a lot of false doctrine during the tribulation period (many false prophets and false teachers) even more so than today. Note that this does not refer to theologians who hold to a slightly differing viewpoint on peripheral issues. It refers to those preaching doctrines that lead people away from Christ. In the context of Revelation it refers to those who were doing the bidding of the Antichrist. But in a broader sense it refers to anyone who leads people away from the true Christ. "

" Summary

So the Bible clearly condemns 3 types of lying: bringing false accusation against others, using dishonest means to get ahead, and preaching false doctrines that lead people away from Christ. These are clearly labeled as sin. It is very easy to see that lying about one’s age is not quite the same thing. The Bible remains silent on any other type of lying, and so should a lot of people. There may be social consequences associated with certain types of lying, but to call them sin is to run ahead of the scriptures. "

David. I want you to very slowly relax your neck, and pull away from your forehead. Repeat until head is out of ass.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
So you're saying that god did necessary evil?

No. I'm saying that it wasn't evil. Killing isn't evil, but murder is. It must be justified, such as in battle or self defense. We've been over this countless times.

DarkwolfX37 said
You can respect someone without doing what they say. That's not an issue of respect, it's an issue of fear and obedience. I know that the bible says they're the same thing, but they fucking aren't.

Um... No it doesn't? It says to obey them, and it says to respect them as well. Although swearing really isn't necessary.

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
Legit, I could never do the first. Out of respect. As much as I hate how they treat me at points, that doesn't change how much I love them. Ignoring them is a silent way of saying no to virtually everything, and that would be a foolish way for me to go about this. I've got two years till college, I can live to suffer for a little bit longer, if it's necessary.

“If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it.” ― Frank Zappa

The same is true of misery.

[LegendBegins]

I'm not replying to that long thing, but it mentions lying in so many other areas, and I highly disagree with the interpretation.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
“If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it.” ― Frank ZappaThe same is true of misery.

And I find it ironic that throughout everything, we seem happy, and despite all the rebellion you set forth, you never seem to be.

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
“If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it.” ― Frank ZappaThe same is true of misery.

My life will not be miserable, I can guarantee you that. The only real thing that I dislike about my young life will be done and over with in a couple years. On top of that, I have very big plans for my career, hobby, life in general, and so on. My life will not be ruined because of a couple more years of coping.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
No. I'm saying that it wasn't evil. Killing isn't evil, but murder is. It must be justified, such as in battle or self defense. We've been over this countless times. Um... No it doesn't? It says to obey them, and it says to respect them as well. Although swearing really isn't necessary.

David. Seriously. A murder is a predetermined killing. God murdered millions with the flood alone. When you go hunting, you're murdering your prey. This is not something you can dance your way around by separating terms. Either god killing was a necessary evil, or it was simply evil. There is no third option. You don't get to say that the holocaust wasn't evil just because Hitler was a Catholic or because the Nazis thought they were in the right. You don't get to say that the murders of Taliban aren't evil just because it's purpose is to prevent evil.

[DarkwolfX37]

Heroic said
My life will not be miserable, I can guarantee you that. The only real thing that I dislike about my young life will be done and over with in a couple years. On top of that, I have very big plans for my career, hobby, life in general, and so on. My life will not be ruined because of a couple more years of coping.

I was referring to the next two years. And let me ask you, what do you intend your relationship with your parents to be after that? Do you truly think that they'll change their beliefs and ideas of how to parent you just because you're a few years older? The only thing that'll change is the conduit, unless you plan to cut off all contact, in which case why wait?

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
David. Seriously. A murder is a predetermined killing. God murdered millions with the flood alone. When you go hunting, you're murdering your prey. This is not something you can dance your way around by separating terms. Either god killing was a necessary evil, or it was simply evil. There is no third option. You don't get to say that the holocaust wasn't evil just because Hitler was a Catholic or because the Nazis thought they were in the right. You don't get to say that the murders of Taliban aren't evil just because it's purpose is to prevent evil.

You can't murder an animal. Seriously. A murder has no justice to it.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
And I find it ironic that throughout everything, we seem happy, and despite all the rebellion you set forth, you never seem to be.

"Ignorance is bliss"
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief." - Ecclesiastes 1:18
"17 And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain." - Ecclesiastes 1:17-18
"Which would you choose? Would you rather live a happy, blissful life, completely ignorant to what's going on in the world and the truth about many things? Or, would you rather have a complete understanding of what's really going on, but face much hardship and depression because of it?

~

Personally, I would never choose ignorance over knowledge, even if it meant possibly being unhappier because of it. My entire life, even since when I was a very young, small child, I've always questioned things that cannot be explained. I've always been curious about the things that we don't know about, things that are controversial, things that some people on this planet do already know the truth about. I used to naively think when I was very little that when we die, we gain all this knowledge. Then, one day, another kid told me that if we have all the knowledge in the universe when we die, then we would be God, and only God has all the knowledge. Of course, this was back before I had formed my own beliefs which I have today. Now, not being a religious person, I know full well that I will never gain this knowledge that I crave.

To me, understanding things and knowing things and having an awareness about the world is a great insight that cannot be matched. Knowledge is everything. It is a power, a treasure, and one thing that we have to achieve in this world, in the ultimate grand scheme. " - Tryne

Etcetera.

[DarkwolfX37]

LegendBegins said
You can't murder an animal. Seriously. A murder has no justice to it.

Justice doesn't exist.
There is no justice in hunting.
Humans are animals.
Etc.

[Heroic]

DarkwolfX37 said
I was referring to the next two years. And let me ask you, what do you intend your relationship with your parents to be after that? Do you truly think that they'll change their beliefs and ideas of how to parent you just because you're a few years older? The only thing that'll change is the conduit, unless you plan to cut off all contact, in which case why wait?

I intend to maintain full contact, visit for family dinners, and eventually return to my roots and move back to this little old town just to be here. They won't change their beliefs on how to parent me, but once I hit college, my decisions are my decisions. They cannot control my life once I hit that point, and I am free to do as I please. Though if they try to help me, I will respect their advice, interpret it myself, and that's it.

[DarkwolfX37]

Hehe, one syllable over the limit on each line or it'd be a haiku.

[LegendBegins]

DarkwolfX37 said
"Ignorance is bliss""For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief." - Ecclesiastes 1:18"17 And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain." - Ecclesiastes 1:17-18"Which would you choose? Would you rather live a happy, blissful life, completely ignorant to what's going on in the world and the truth about many things? Or, would you rather have a complete understanding of what's really going on, but face much hardship and depression because of it?~Personally, I would never choose ignorance over knowledge, even if it meant possibly being unhappier because of it. My entire life, even since when I was a very young, small child, I've always questioned things that cannot be explained. I've always been curious about the things that we don't know about, things that are controversial, things that some people on this planet do already know the truth about. I used to naively think when I was very little that when we die, we gain all this knowledge. Then, one day, another kid told me that if we have all the knowledge in the universe when we die, then we would be God, and only God has all the knowledge. Of course, this was back before I had formed my own beliefs which I have today. Now, not being a religious person, I know full well that I will never gain this knowledge that I crave.To me, understanding things and knowing things and having an awareness about the world is a great insight that cannot be matched. Knowledge is everything. It is a power, a treasure, and one thing that we have to achieve in this world, in the ultimate grand scheme. " - TryneEtcetera.

I chose knowledge over ignorance, but I am still joyful. You, however, choose the life you lead.

DarkwolfX37 said
Justice doesn't exist. There is no justice in hunting.Humans are animals. Etc.

And that is why your interpretation of the Bible will always be wrong.